6 Month Old Only Sleeps 2 Hours at a Time

[jilly4ski]

Not at all. Normal biology is to be able to eat sufficient food for the body’s needs. That can be done over 24 hours a little bit at a time, or it can be done at several feedings during which more food is taken in.

The point of breastfeeding is to feed the baby. Yes, we all use it as a way of demonstrating love for our children, and it is very nice to have that close time with a child. But the point is feeding. If mothers choose to use breastfeeding as a “comfort method,” then of course the child will continue to demand his or her “comfort” at all times, including during the night. And that’s FINE–as long as it’s OK with mom and dad and the rest of the family.

The point is, it’s NOT fine for many women to go without long hours of deep, uninterrupted sleep. I certainly couldn’t handle it, even though I was a stay-at-home mom for years. I throw up if I am sleep-deprived, and as you know, if you throw up enough, you will become dehydrated, and that’s the END of breastfeeding.

It is not good for a baby to have a mother and father who are consistently sleep-deprived.

There is no harm in training a baby to eat all their food during the daytime hours, and use their nighttime hours to sleep. That is not going against nature. It’s the way most humans sleep. We humans tend to sleep in long stretches at night, not in “cat-naps” throughout the day and night.

If you choose to allow the child to wait to learn to sleep during the night on their own schedule, that’s fine. But don’t label as “unhealthy” those who choose to train their children to sleep through the night from a young age. It’s not unhealthy at all.

My younger daughter was totally breastfed for one year–no other food, not even Cheerios. She simply wouldn’t accept any other food or a bottle of anything.

But from six weeks, she slept 10-12 hours a night. And she was incredibly healthy.

What she did was nurse longer during the day. By the time she was about three months old, she was nursing 5x a day for a half hour at each feeding. She never napped during the day, BTW–she would breast feed, and when she was finished (after a half hour) she was up and active again.

At the time I had my daughter, 17 of my friends (in my church) also had babies, and with only ONE exception, all of these babies were sleeping through the night at 6-8 weeks, and with only one exception, ALL of these babies were breast fed, several exclusively like mine.

And all of these babies were incredibly healthy.

I have quite a few co-workers at the hospital where I work who have babies, and for the most part, these babies sleep through the night by 6-8 weeks, and many of them are breastfed and all of them are very very healthy.

That’s nice, but not all babies are the same. My youngest, often sleeps through the night since she was 6 weeks. It was a shock when it first happened because my other 2 children did not do that until they were 12months old or so… (Well my eldest slept for 6 +hours midnight to 6am after his first plane trip when he was pretty young). And my second was an even better sleeper than my first (though as he reached 8months or so his sleep habits got worse not better until we weaned). We do the same thing as we did with the other 2, why does this one sleep and the other didn’t?

The biological fact is that breast milk digests faster than formula. When a baby’s tummy is empty it is empty, no matter how much the kid ate during the day. Especially a baby of 6 weeks. When their tummy is empty they will likely wake up and be hungry. No amount of “training” will fix that, they are hungry and need to be fed. Now at 6 months, the OP could indeed start to train baby to sleep better, but should be aware that at 6 months it will be harder to get fast or permanent results. (things like illness and teething always throws a wrench in things).

 

[aloe]

MOST babies… can sleep through the night by six months, usually earlier, if parents let them.
.

This is not true at all.
Here are actual real studies done
kellymom.com/parenting/nighttime/sleepstudies/

 

[aloe]

Normal biology is to be able to eat sufficient food for the body’s needs. That can be done…at several feedings during which more food is taken in.
.

Stuffing isn’t normal for everyone and isn’t desirable for all. Some babies, children, and adults alike don’t want to gorge and stuff themselves, and would rather eat smaller meals more frequently.
llli.org/nb/lvaprmay98p21nb.html
lalecheleague.org/nb/law45com.html

I also find it interesting you “know” in depth all about all your co-workers and church friends new babies general health, feeding, and sleeping habits, and they* all *happened to be just like you think they should

 

[johnsheppard]

My wife is coming to her wit’s end over our baby’s night time sleeping habits. He only sleeps for 1 to 2 hours at a time before waking up crying. Right now the solution is to nurse him back to sleep. But this is taking a toll on my wife since she never gets more than 2 hours of sleep at a time. We think he is sucking more out of comfort, not because he’s hungry since he usually falls asleep at the breast after a few minutes.

I think this is developing into a bad habit. I think our baby is learning that whenever he wakes up at night he gets to nurse himself back to sleep. And while this is an expedient way to quiet him down, it’s not getting any better. I want to try something else because our current routine isn’t leading anywhere.

I think we’ve gone way past the point where we can change the baby’s habit without a little bit of crying. While we don’t like the “let him cry it out” method, I think it is now unavoidable, at least a little. I think that if he wakes up, I should hold and rock him while he throws his little fit instead of my wife nursing him back to sleep. I’m on paternity leave right now so I know from putting him down for naps that he will eventually tire himself out. I think over time this will teach him that the middle of night is not automatically nursing time. I think this might get worse before it gets better. My wife can’t stand to hear him cry when she knows that nursing him will settle him down. But then she’s just a zombie during the day from the lack of sleep. I think my idea is a better long-term solution.

Any thoughts?

I remember being there. If feeding is the issue, could your wife just pump (or go to formula if you are so inclined) and then you can tag-team the feedings? I remember doing a schedule with my wife, up to midnight I would take the baby and feed him or whatever, and after midnight she would take him. She would go to sleep when I got home from work at around 6, so she could definitely get 6 hours of sleep a night. Babies are tough, thats for sure.

 

[pentecostbaby]

It is not typical for a baby to sleep for more than two to three hours at a time at six months. The dangers of leaving your baby to cry unattended - and that includes ‘fussing’ - are myriad. Please read this article about the dangers of CIO, backed by scientific studies:
drmomma.org/2012/09/the-dangers-of-crying-it-out.html

Clearly, sometimes, baby will be left to fuss while mama finishes a task. But sustained, symptomatic ignoring of a baby’s needs - and at under one year, there is no difference between ‘wants’ and ‘needs’ - can lead to them shutting down. Of course, some babies WILL sleep through the night on their own. And some parents have let their children CIO and will say, “Well, my kids are fine.”

This is going to sound harsh, but: how do you know? How do you know that your children wouldn’t be better off if you had answered their needs at a young age?

I do not mean to attack anyone. When you know better, you do better. There is no shame in reading research and thinking, “Man, I ought to have done x/y/z instead.” I am not the perfect parent. I regret a lot - I regret that my son has a pacifer; I regret the way we got him to sleep as an infant (held his hand in a swing while he cried).

 

[faithfully]

I do not mean to attack anyone. When you know better, you do better. There is no shame in reading research and thinking, “Man, I ought to have done x/y/z instead.” I am not the perfect parent. I regret a lot - I regret that my son has a pacifer; I regret the way we got him to sleep as an infant (held his hand in a swing while he cried).

LOL! Just to give you a little rest on those regrets… I completely withheld pacifiers. Turns out my kids have sensory issues, and the fussiest of the two is a chewer. He doesn’t do it all the time, but when he’s stressed, he’ll start chewing on his sleeves or shirt or something. It’s so rare, it kinda freaks you out. He’s old enough now, so when he needs to be calm I give him gum. And I WISH I had allowed him a pacifier. He might have self soothed better. Who knows… Always, woulda, coulda, shoulda…

 

[Cat]

Stuffing isn’t normal for everyone and isn’t desirable for all. Some babies, children, and adults alike don’t want to gorge and stuff themselves, and would rather eat smaller meals more frequently.
llli.org/nb/lvaprmay98p21nb.html
lalecheleague.org/nb/law45com.html

I also find it interesting you “know” in depth all about all your co-workers and church friends new babies general health, feeding, and sleeping habits, and they* all *happened to be just like you think they should

And the same thing is true for people who believe that infants are not capable of sleeping through the night–they tend to hang together.

My baby did NOT gorge and stuff herself. Sorry, I don’t get mad very often on this board, but this upsets me quite a bit. My daughter ate what she needed and was satisfied. That’s the way nursing works. Baby eats, breast milk production is stimulated, baby stops eating, breast milk production stops.

Babies don’t eat like adults–they don’t eat what they don’t need like we do (e.g., I ate most of a bag of Cheetos today because I did a long drive and was trying to stay awake–I certainly wasn’t hungry–I was just using food to stay awake–bad of me, I know).

I suppose that nowadays, perhaps things have changed. If you’ve read Kessler’s excellent book on overeating in America, you’ll know that he cites numerous studies of rats who eat sugar until they die, literally. So I suppose it’s possible for a baby to eat sugar in excessive amounts. But I honestly don’t think it’s possible for a baby to gorge or overeat breast milk. God designed the system to be a perfect method of meeting a child’s nutritional needs. Perhaps I’m wrong and babies do gorge on breastmilk, but my baby most certainly did NOT gorge! She was lean and trim throughout her infancy and childhood.

 

[Cat]

This is not true at all.
Here are actual real studies done
kellymom.com/parenting/nighttime/sleepstudies/

I decided to take you up on this. I read through the studies in this website.

Then I did some searching and discovered quite a few scientific studies by professors, doctors, etc. that contradicted the studies in the kellymom website.

So it’s a question of which studies you want to accept.

“Scientific studies” are funny like that. I work in a hospital lab, and often, we will look for scientific studies about various lab tests. I swear to you that we can find studies that utterly contradict each other. If someone wants to prove that a certain test must be done to prove an identification, they can find a study to prove it–but someone else can find another study that DISPROVES it. I have seen this happen over and over again.

Earlier in the thread, someone suggested that the best “experts” are moms and dads who’ve been through child-rearing. I think that poster has a good point.

 

[aloe]

I don’t get mad very often on this board, but this upsets me quite a bit Baby eats, breast milk production is stimulated, baby stops eating, breast milk production stops.

But I honestly don’t think it’s possible for a baby to gorge or overeat breast milk. God designed the system to be a perfect method of meeting a child’s nutritional needs. P.

Didn’t mean to upset you. Some parents do try to, for lack of a better word, stuff babies so they sleep better with cereals, etc.

I am nursing right now and my baby sometimes eats a lot and sometimes does not. It just depends on what the baby wants at the time. I also believe baby cannot eat too breast milk, it is a perfect system of supply and demand. Some babies eat a lot and do long feedings and sometimes they just eat for a few minutes. There are different types, some like to snack, some like long drawn out sessions, and so forth.

Earlier in the thread, someone suggested that the best “experts” are moms and dads who’ve been through child-rearing. I think that poster has a good point.

Thanks for checking out the links. And one of the kellymom study was done by parents, the one where the large majority of 6 month old were not yet sleeping through the night.

 

[Cat]

Didn’t mean to upset you. Some parents do try to, for lack of a better word, stuff babies so they sleep better with cereals, etc.

I am nursing right now and my baby sometimes eats a lot and sometimes does not. It just depends on what the baby wants at the time. I also believe baby cannot eat too breast milk, it is a perfect system of supply and demand. Some babies eat a lot and do long feedings and sometimes they just eat for a few minutes. There are different types, some like to snack, some like long drawn out sessions, and so forth.

Thanks for checking out the links. And one of the kellymom study was done by parents, the one where the large majority of 6 month old were not yet sleeping through the night.

Thank you for the kind note. I think we’re on the same page when it comes to breastfeeding. My daughter was exclusively breastfed by her own choice; she refused all of our attempts to feed her anything else.

I would love to post links to some of the studies that I found, but unfortunately, they are PDFs that were published in established medical journals, and I can’t figure out how to post a link to a PDF. But that doesn’t matter. Anyone who googles this subject will find a plethora of studies, some scientific, and some pseudo-scientific, on all sides of the issue. Just because there is a scientific study “proving” that infants are not capable of sleeping through the night doesn’t mean that this is fact, any more than finding a scientific studying “proving” that all infants are capable of sleeping through the night means that this is a fact.

Sorry, but I don’t call a parent-run study “scientific.” For a study to be “scientific,” certain controls and conditions must be met. Parent-run “studies” are really no different than my anecdotal evidence based on my experiences over the years with friends and relatives who have had babies.

And I realize that for every anecdote I share about babies who happily sleep through the night at 6 weeks, someone else will share an anecdote about a healthy baby they knew who didn’t sleep through the night for a full year.

I think when it comes to babies sleeping through the night, it is virtually impossible for anyone, even a scientist or doctor, to do a study without some kind of bias. In, one of the studies I read, the child psychologist conducting the study labelled babies who do not sleep through the night by 4 months as having a “sleep disorder.” I know many of you will disagree with that strongly. I even disagree with it a little bit.

But we have to keep in mind that nowadays, most women do not have the luxury of staying home to raise their babies because they have to go back to work outside of the home. Many of these mothers, sadly, are single moms; over half of African-American babies are born to single mothers.

Yes, I realize that moms who stay at home and keep house and raise other children are also sleepy when their babies don’t sleep through the night. But there is a difference–if a stay-at-home mom is sleepy, there are ways that she can slow the family life down so that she is still able to function. E.g., instead of cooking a nice homemade meal, she can serve canned ravioli and a can of green beans–hey, a lot of kids would prefer that to a home-cooked meal! (I like canned ravioli, too.)

But women who work outside the home are not able to adjust their work to make it a little less busy. They have to do their job and do it well. Being sleepy on the job can result in mistakes at work, personality issues that involve getting along with co-workers, etc, The bottom line is, if a woman does not perform her job to a certain standard, she will be terminated. This doesn’t happen to stay-at-home moms–they get to keep working even if the beds aren’t made, the food is out of cans, and days are spent sitting around on the floor in a sleepy daze watching babies crawl around and play!

So doctors and scientists are under heavy societal pressure to figure out ways to get infants to sleep through the night so that mom can sleep, too, and go back to work and hold onto her job.

But I don’t think this is wrong. I’ve seen so many children sleep through the night from a young age (a few months), and I don’t think that there is anything wrong or evil about parents who try to nudge their children towards more adult sleep behaviors. I agree that there are good methods and not-so-good methods for doing this. I don’t believe in letting babies cry endlessly, either. Training implies coaching, and coaching implies interaction, not hiding out in another room while the athlete flounders!

I have had some very unpleasant experiences with the co-sleeping/attachment approach that tend to bias me against it, and I’m guessing that some of the scientists and doctors who do supposedly-scientific studies “proving” that all infants should sleep through the night have had some of the bad experiences that I have had that tend to make them biased, too.

But some of you have had many positive and pleasant experiences with co-sleeping and the family bed, and you are biased in favor of the practice.

Here’s the thing–as others have said, all families are different, and we should not expect everyone to do it the way we do it. I have no problem with families who co-sleep and allow babies to wake up and feed constantly through the night IF THIS IS WHAT THEY WANT.

What I have problems with is when moms are exhausted and sick from lack of sleep, and people telling them that “this is the way it is with babies.” No, it isn’t. There are ways to train infants to sleep, and many of us have used these methods and our children turned out great. **Each family should be free to choose which parenting methods are best for their family and situation, and we should all support each other in our choices rather than imply that others are poor parents. **

 

[jilly4ski]

Cat, aloe, I think the problem here is that not all kids are the same regardless of how you do it. Attachment or otherwise.

My first two children actually did eat too much breastmilk. (It is possible that my third is as well). I struggled mightily with oversupply. My first would eat and then throw up and then need to eat again, he was not a good sleeper. My second would nurse than then fuss on the breast, until we introduced a pacifier. The pacifier stopped his spit up almost completely. He was an ok sleeper, for a while he got to sleep in the bed because my dh was working nights, that actually trained him to sleep well for while until we hit growth and teeth. So far this technique has not worked on the current baby, she still spits up like a fiend, but she is also my good sleeper, she sleeps through the night more often than not and still takes good naps.

 

[Kelfa28]

I have a 6 month old as well who is teething something fierce. She’s a hot mess with the teething and I feel bad for her.

She was a good sleeper until about a month ago. I’d still say she is a good sleeper because she only wakes up once a night from 8pm to 5am. We change her diaper and then we feed her. She has a morning bottle, takes a nap until 7am and is ready for her day.

Her food schedule is just different. I didn’t breastfeed her, she refused to latch, but I did pump for her and she was fed my milk for 5 months exclusively. She would have gone far, far longer if I actually breastfed her but the fact is I couldn’t keep up with her any longer. I couldn’t keep my supply up to match her demand (it’s impossible when you don’t have a baby latching and taking care of your supply for you). I had to slow down with the pumping for my own sanity.

As much as I hated to do so, I had to introduce formula. We usually do her night bottle as formula because it’s filling and she lasts longer with it. Same thing if she wakes up during the night.

I don’t think I “train” her to sleep. I get up with her when she is seriously crying, usually because she needs something (hungry, teeth hurt, diaper change, whatever) but she never gets up for just comfort. She never did, she takes care of her own soothing needs by sucking her thumb.

I try hard not to over-analyze what she does and I let things go. I think she sleeps enough and she eats enough. Her doctor says she is perfectly healthy.

 

[KellyPalmer]

Not at all. Normal biology is to be able to eat sufficient food for the body’s needs. That can be done over 24 hours a little bit at a time, or it can be done at several feedings during which more food is taken in.

The point of breastfeeding is to feed the baby. Yes, we all use it as a way of demonstrating love for our children, and it is very nice to have that close time with a child. But the point is feeding. If mothers choose to use breastfeeding as a “comfort method,” then of course the child will continue to demand his or her “comfort” at all times, including during the night. And that’s FINE–as long as it’s OK with mom and dad and the rest of the family.

The point is, it’s NOT fine for many women to go without long hours of deep, uninterrupted sleep. I certainly couldn’t handle it, even though I was a stay-at-home mom for years. I throw up if I am sleep-deprived, and as you know, if you throw up enough, you will become dehydrated, and that’s the END of breastfeeding.

It is not good for a baby to have a mother and father who are consistently sleep-deprived.

There is no harm in training a baby to eat all their food during the daytime hours, and use their nighttime hours to sleep. That is not going against nature. It’s the way most humans sleep. We humans tend to sleep in long stretches at night, not in “cat-naps” throughout the day and night.

If you choose to allow the child to wait to learn to sleep during the night on their own schedule, that’s fine. But don’t label as “unhealthy” those who choose to train their children to sleep through the night from a young age. It’s not unhealthy at all.

My younger daughter was totally breastfed for one year–no other food, not even Cheerios. She simply wouldn’t accept any other food or a bottle of anything.

But from six weeks, she slept 10-12 hours a night. And she was incredibly healthy.

What she did was nurse longer during the day. By the time she was about three months old, she was nursing 5x a day for a half hour at each feeding. She never napped during the day, BTW–she would breast feed, and when she was finished (after a half hour) she was up and active again.

At the time I had my daughter, 17 of my friends (in my church) also had babies, and with only ONE exception, all of these babies were sleeping through the night at 6-8 weeks, and with only one exception, ALL of these babies were breast fed, several exclusively like mine.

And all of these babies were incredibly healthy.

I have quite a few co-workers at the hospital where I work who have babies, and for the most part, these babies sleep through the night by 6-8 weeks, and many of them are breastfed and all of them are very very healthy.

The fact is, babies were designed to nurse throughout the night. That’s why suckling at the breast during the night reduces the risk of SIDS. That’s why it is recommended to recreate this through the imitation of a pacifier. Even adults don’t sleep though the night uninterrupted. Look into the studies done on adult sleep – it’s very rarely uninterrupted. Babies are no different. This is normal biology. There is a very good chance that sleeping through the night as early as 10 weeks will have a negative effect on the breastfeeding relationship. Everyone and every baby is different – but the risk is very real. Mothers and babies don’t have to be sleep deprived, even when their baby is not sleeping through the night so it’s not an either/or thing .

 

[KellyPalmer]

Cat, aloe, I think the problem here is that not all kids are the same regardless of how you do it. Attachment or otherwise.

My first two children actually did eat too much breastmilk. (It is possible that my third is as well). I struggled mightily with oversupply. My first would eat and then throw up and then need to eat again, he was not a good sleeper. My second would nurse than then fuss on the breast, until we introduced a pacifier. The pacifier stopped his spit up almost completely. He was an ok sleeper, for a while he got to sleep in the bed because my dh was working nights, that actually trained him to sleep well for while until we hit growth and teeth. So far this technique has not worked on the current baby, she still spits up like a fiend, but she is also my good sleeper, she sleeps through the night more often than not and still takes good naps.

Have you looked into Milk Soy Protein Intolerance (MSPI)?

 

[Cat]

Cat, aloe, I think the problem here is that not all kids are the same regardless of how you do it. Attachment or otherwise.

My first two children actually did eat too much breastmilk. (It is possible that my third is as well). I struggled mightily with oversupply. My first would eat and then throw up and then need to eat again, he was not a good sleeper. My second would nurse than then fuss on the breast, until we introduced a pacifier. The pacifier stopped his spit up almost completely. He was an ok sleeper, for a while he got to sleep in the bed because my dh was working nights, that actually trained him to sleep well for while until we hit growth and teeth. So far this technique has not worked on the current baby, she still spits up like a fiend, but she is also my good sleeper, she sleeps through the night more often than not and still takes good naps.

I agree that all babies are different and respond differently.

I have a friend who’s first baby (a daughter) slept well through the night from an early age (2 months). The mom and dad used one of the famous books by some famous doctor (it wasn’t Dobson or Sears–I think it was a woman?) to sleep-train their baby. When their 2nd baby was born (a son), he did not sleep through the night for over a year, no matter what technique they tried. Mom quit working (she was working part time, about one weekend a month, in the hospital lab). Eventually their son did sleep, but they have not had any other children after the son, and in part, that’s because their son exhausted them and they’re not willing to go through another sleepless year.

 

[Cat]

The fact is, babies were designed to nurse throughout the night. That’s why suckling at the breast during the night reduces the risk of SIDS. That’s why it is recommended to recreate this through the imitation of a pacifier. Even adults don’t sleep though the night uninterrupted. Look into the studies done on adult sleep – it’s very rarely uninterrupted. Babies are no different. This is normal biology. There is a very good chance that sleeping through the night as early as 10 weeks will have a negative effect on the breastfeeding relationship. Everyone and every baby is different – but the risk is very real. Mothers and babies don’t have to be sleep deprived, even when their baby is not sleeping through the night so it’s not an either/or thing .

So how do you explain all the babies like mine who DIDN’T nurse throughout the night? And all my friends? And all the women in this thread with babies who sleep through the night without feeding?

I don’t buy it, KellyPalmer. I don’t buy that all babies are designed to nurse through night. Suck during the night–that I will buy. Many adults still suck their thumbs at night.

Both of my daughters used a pacy, BTW, and used it until they were 5 years old. I didn’t even try to take it away until they went to kindergarten, and then they gave it up because they didn’t want to be different from the other kids. Both of them are very oral even now–my older daughter still uses a sippy cup at age 29 (she drinks coffee constantly).

But I don’t buy that all babies are designed to NURSE through the night. If you are right, then all of our babies who slept through the night without feeding are somehow deformed or “wrong.”

I agree with jilly4ski that all babies are different. I happen to believe that most babies are “designed” to sleep through the night without feeding, if the parents will allow them to do so. Again, if the parents choose to allow their babies to feed throughout the night, then that’s great. But it’s also great when parents choose to try to train their babies to sleep through the night without feeding.

And yes, as jilly4ski points out, not all babies will respond to attempts to sleep train them, and this is one reason why it’s ideal for a mom to be able to stop working outside the home when she has babies. It’s a misery–sorry to use such a strong word, but it is!–it’s a misery when a baby wakes up during the night and keeps mom awake and then mom has to drag herself to a job outside the home.

I think that working outside the home is a good reason for mom to co-sleep if that truly helps a woman to get more sleep. My SIL co-slept with her three sons because she had to work full-time while they were still babies. Her boys were (and still are at ages 7 and 9) very poor sleepers who stay up until midnight and wake up several times during the night, and even though they are now older (7 and 9), they still have to have an adult in the room with them in order to be able to sleep. The older boy must sleep WITH an adult, either one of his parents or with a grandparent. Not a good sleeping situation for them or their parents/grandparents. Not normal, IMO.

I tried co-sleeping with my older daughter, and it made me physically sick. I couldn’t fall asleep sleeping on my side, and she couldn’t reach my breast because she had torticolis. I was overweight (around 200 pounds) and was terrified of crushing her. I don’t sleep well anyway with any kind of noise (I sleep with a fan every night), and it was just a miserable experience. I did much better actually getting out of the bed and taking her to our family room to nurse, where I would put a good movie on the TV and cuddle under a blanket during the feeding. But she wasn’t a good night nurser at all–she didn’t really want to nurse–she wanted to party! She’s still a social person at age 29, and in fact, she “networks” as part of her job (stage manager).

It’s funny how personality traits that are present in babies continue into adulthood.

And yes, I agree that all adults wake up in the night, but very few of us head to the kitchen for a middle-of-the-night snack. I do have one friend who has to eat during the night. She’s in her mid-50s, and she’s very very thin with small bones and features. She feels her best when she eats several small meals throughout the day, and then she always wakes up at around 2 a.m. ravenously hungry and HAS to have a small snack (cracker, cookie, etc.) to be able to go back to sleep. BTW, she has children (all grown), all born naturally with no meds, nursed all three of them, and all three of them slept through the night from an early age. She worked full-time while her children were babies. So none of her children have her “night-waking” trait.

 

[KellyPalmer]

So how do you explain all the babies like mine who DIDN’T nurse throughout the night? And all my friends? And all the women in this thread with babies who sleep through the night without feeding?

I don’t buy it, KellyPalmer. I don’t buy that all babies are designed to nurse through night. Suck during the night–that I will buy. Many adults still suck their thumbs at night.

Both of my daughters used a pacy, BTW, and used it until they were 5 years old. I didn’t even try to take it away until they went to kindergarten, and then they gave it up because they didn’t want to be different from the other kids. Both of them are very oral even now–my older daughter still uses a sippy cup at age 29 (she drinks coffee constantly).

But I don’t buy that all babies are designed to NURSE through the night. If you are right, then all of our babies who slept through the night without feeding are somehow deformed or “wrong.”

I agree with jilly4ski that all babies are different. I happen to believe that most babies are “designed” to sleep through the night without feeding, if the parents will allow them to do so. Again, if the parents choose to allow their babies to feed throughout the night, then that’s great. But it’s also great when parents choose to try to train their babies to sleep through the night without feeding.

And yes, as jilly4ski points out, not all babies will respond to attempts to sleep train them, and this is one reason why it’s ideal for a mom to be able to stop working outside the home when she has babies. It’s a misery–sorry to use such a strong word, but it is!–it’s a misery when a baby wakes up during the night and keeps mom awake and then mom has to drag herself to a job outside the home.

I think that working outside the home is a good reason for mom to co-sleep if that truly helps a woman to get more sleep. My SIL co-slept with her three sons because she had to work full-time while they were still babies. Her boys were (and still are at ages 7 and 9) very poor sleepers who stay up until midnight and wake up several times during the night, and even though they are now older (7 and 9), they still have to have an adult in the room with them in order to be able to sleep. The older boy must sleep WITH an adult, either one of his parents or with a grandparent. Not a good sleeping situation for them or their parents/grandparents. Not normal, IMO.

I tried co-sleeping with my older daughter, and it made me physically sick. I couldn’t fall asleep sleeping on my side, and she couldn’t reach my breast because she had torticolis. I was overweight (around 200 pounds) and was terrified of crushing her. I don’t sleep well anyway with any kind of noise (I sleep with a fan every night), and it was just a miserable experience. I did much better actually getting out of the bed and taking her to our family room to nurse, where I would put a good movie on the TV and cuddle under a blanket during the feeding. But she wasn’t a good night nurser at all–she didn’t really want to nurse–she wanted to party! She’s still a social person at age 29, and in fact, she “networks” as part of her job (stage manager).

It’s funny how personality traits that are present in babies continue into adulthood.

And yes, I agree that all adults wake up in the night, but very few of us head to the kitchen for a middle-of-the-night snack. I do have one friend who has to eat during the night. She’s in her mid-50s, and she’s very very thin with small bones and features. She feels her best when she eats several small meals throughout the day, and then she always wakes up at around 2 a.m. ravenously hungry and HAS to have a small snack (cracker, cookie, etc.) to be able to go back to sleep. BTW, she has children (all grown), all born naturally with no meds, nursed all three of them, and all three of them slept through the night from an early age. She worked full-time while her children were babies. So none of her children have her “night-waking” trait.

You certainly don’t have to “buy it”. We can agree to disagree. If you are interested in learning more, I would encourage you to read from the world renowned experts who have devoted their life’s work to studying this topic such as Dr James Mckenna and Dr Kathryn Dettwiller – both state firmly that babies were designed to nurse through the night and that this is pure biology.

I’ll give another example – breastfeeding. Babies are designed to breastfeed. Can we both agree? If not, I can go into the science and their gut and what their stomach produces, the formation of their jaw, etc. Hopefully we agree though! Yet, a baby can be formula fed and be perfectly fine. Formula fed babies are happy and healthy – not deformed or wrong. Now, there are some additional risks associated with formula feeding but overall, they are not “wrong”. Why? Because God created people to be adaptable to different situations.

Yes, everyone is different – babies included. I did touch on that too. But that doesn’t change biology and the way babies were designed. Some babies can adapt more easily to alternative situations than others. I do agree that a mother shouldn’t bedshare if it’s not working for her or if she has personal risk factors. But that doesn’t mean she can’t cosleep – such as side-carring the crib or using an Arm’s Reach cosleeper so that she can easily nurse in the middle of the night without fully waking up.

Or maybe she doesn’t want to. And that’s fine too. I do support parents doing what they feel is best for their family and their situation. I just don’t think it’s a healthy expectation for most babies to sleep through the night at 10 weeks b/c of our biology.

 

[pentecostbaby]

So how do you explain all the babies like mine who DIDN’T nurse throughout the night? And all my friends? And all the women in this thread with babies who sleep through the night without feeding?

I don’t buy it, KellyPalmer. I don’t buy that all babies are designed to nurse through night. Suck during the night–that I will buy. Many adults still suck their thumbs at night.

Both of my daughters used a pacy, BTW, and used it until they were 5 years old. I didn’t even try to take it away until they went to kindergarten, and then they gave it up because they didn’t want to be different from the other kids. Both of them are very oral even now–my older daughter still uses a sippy cup at age 29 (she drinks coffee constantly).

But I don’t buy that all babies are designed to NURSE through the night. If you are right, then all of our babies who slept through the night without feeding are somehow deformed or “wrong.”

I agree with jilly4ski that all babies are different. I happen to believe that most babies are “designed” to sleep through the night without feeding, if the parents will allow them to do so. Again, if the parents choose to allow their babies to feed throughout the night, then that’s great. But it’s also great when parents choose to try to train their babies to sleep through the night without feeding.

And yes, as jilly4ski points out, not all babies will respond to attempts to sleep train them, and this is one reason why it’s ideal for a mom to be able to stop working outside the home when she has babies. It’s a misery–sorry to use such a strong word, but it is!–it’s a misery when a baby wakes up during the night and keeps mom awake and then mom has to drag herself to a job outside the home.

I think that working outside the home is a good reason for mom to co-sleep if that truly helps a woman to get more sleep. My SIL co-slept with her three sons because she had to work full-time while they were still babies. Her boys were (and still are at ages 7 and 9) very poor sleepers who stay up until midnight and wake up several times during the night, and even though they are now older (7 and 9), they still have to have an adult in the room with them in order to be able to sleep. The older boy must sleep WITH an adult, either one of his parents or with a grandparent. Not a good sleeping situation for them or their parents/grandparents. Not normal, IMO.

I tried co-sleeping with my older daughter, and it made me physically sick. I couldn’t fall asleep sleeping on my side, and she couldn’t reach my breast because she had torticolis. I was overweight (around 200 pounds) and was terrified of crushing her. I don’t sleep well anyway with any kind of noise (I sleep with a fan every night), and it was just a miserable experience. I did much better actually getting out of the bed and taking her to our family room to nurse, where I would put a good movie on the TV and cuddle under a blanket during the feeding. But she wasn’t a good night nurser at all–she didn’t really want to nurse–she wanted to party! She’s still a social person at age 29, and in fact, she “networks” as part of her job (stage manager).

It’s funny how personality traits that are present in babies continue into adulthood.

And yes, I agree that all adults wake up in the night, but very few of us head to the kitchen for a middle-of-the-night snack. I do have one friend who has to eat during the night. She’s in her mid-50s, and she’s very very thin with small bones and features. She feels her best when she eats several small meals throughout the day, and then she always wakes up at around 2 a.m. ravenously hungry and HAS to have a small snack (cracker, cookie, etc.) to be able to go back to sleep. BTW, she has children (all grown), all born naturally with no meds, nursed all three of them, and all three of them slept through the night from an early age. She worked full-time while her children were babies. So none of her children have her “night-waking” trait.

No one says your babies, who slept through the night immediately, are deformed or abnormnal or deficient. Different than most? Yes. Are you lucky? YES. But it is not a reasonable expectation that a breastfed infant sleep for more than three hours at a time until at least one year of age. I do encourage you to read Dr. McKenna’s info on this.

Telling mothers that it is normal that their breastfed babies sleep through the night can be damaging. It sets up unrealistic expectations for babies, and leads to - yes - mothers feeling that they need to sleep train because their children are abnormal.

Every needs to do what’s best for them. But it is not desirable that a baby be left to fuss or cry, or that a baby be sleep trained - especially before one year - unless there is a serious and substantial need that outweighs the inherent distress to the child. It’s like daycare. No one wants to put their baby in daycare. But it can be necessary.

 

[Cat]

No one says your babies, who slept through the night immediately, are deformed or abnormnal or deficient. Different than most? Yes. Are you lucky? YES. But it is not a reasonable expectation that a breastfed infant sleep for more than three hours at a time until at least one year of age. I do encourage you to read Dr. McKenna’s info on this.

Telling mothers that it is normal that their breastfed babies sleep through the night can be damaging. It sets up unrealistic expectations for babies, and leads to - yes - mothers feeling that they need to sleep train because their children are abnormal.

Every needs to do what’s best for them. But it is not desirable that a baby be left to fuss or cry, or that a baby be sleep trained - especially before one year - unless there is a serious and substantial need that outweighs the inherent distress to the child. It’s like daycare. No one wants to put their baby in daycare. But it can be necessary.

I think that an exhausted mother is a good reason to sleep train a baby. Go back to the OP. The husband says, “But then she’s just a zombie during the day from the lack of sleep.”

I identify with that. I’ve said it several times on this thread, and I will repeat it–when I am sleep-deprived, I throw up. That is not good when you are trying to nurse a baby.

Exhaustion, to me, is sufficient reason to try some sleep-training.

When there are other children in the family, it becomes a safety issue. It only takes a minute for a child to get involved with something dangerous; e.g., falling into an open toilet which should have been closed and possibly locked, but when a mother is exhausted, it’s really easy to forget. Or in the winter, sometimes little ones wander outside and the door locks behind them. Moms (and dads and other caregivers) have to be constantly vigilant about safety, and walking around like a half-dead zombie is not going to help someone be alert.

Telling everyone that a breast-fed infant was never meant to sleep through the night sets them up for failure. Not every mom can co-sleep, and those that can’t muster up the physical fortitude to keep getting up night after night feel like failures when they read about the attachment moms who never, ever are separated from their babies. I’m guessing that most moms quit breast-feeding and go to formula because they are convinced that it’s the only way they will ever get any sleep. Funny how twisted our brains get when we’re exhausted.

Based on anecdotal evidence, it’s obvious that many breast-fed babies can and DO sleep through the night without distress. I think that moms should be told the truth–that all babies are different, and that if Mom is an exhausted zombie, then it’s worth a try to see if their baby is one of the “lucky ones” that will respond well to attempts to sleep train. If not, then just wait a little longer and try again. (Just like potty-training–if a child is not ready, then just wait and try again later.)

But telling Moms that they are going against biology to attempt to sleep train before one year of age is going to scare many mothers away from even attempting to sleep train.

 

[aloe]

it is not a reasonable expectation that a breastfed infant sleep for more than three hours at a time until at least one year of age. I do encourage you to read Dr. McKenna’s info on this.
Telling mothers that it is normal that their breastfed babies sleep through the night can be damaging. It sets up unrealistic expectations for babies, and leads to - yes - mothers feeling that they need to sleep train because their children are abnormal.
But it is not desirable that a baby be left to fuss or cry - unless there is *a serious and substantial need *. ]

Thank you for this. I am nursing a healthy happy baby and I don’t feel there is anything abnormal about a little tummy needing to be filled in the middle of the night.
I will check Dr. McKenna’s information.