6 Reasons Your Right-Wing Friend Isn’t Coming To Your Side On Gun Control

[LilyM]

Why gun deaths happen.

Probably over half the gun deaths that occur in the US are drug-related as gang members shot it out for territory. Another considerable number are due to drinking or drugs.

If you consider where gun murders (not suicides) occur, the majority are in very small, relatively isolated poor areas.

If you were to take out the drug-related murders, the US murder rate would approximate those of Europe.

But plenty of other countries have gangs, drink, drugs and small, relatively isolated poor areas as well. And at rates as bad or worse than the US. Yet nowhere near the rate of gun deaths.

For that matter plenty of other countries have a “me culture” too, again without the same rate of gun deaths as the US.

Bradskii’s question seems legitimate. Where is the genuine difference in the US if not gun ownership?

 

[Imdaman]

Im afraid you missed the logic of Upants post. He is not comparing the US to the UK and Autralia. He is pointing out a serious flaw in your logic.

“If banning firearms works against gun violence why has it steadily increased in the UK and Australia?”

You are probaly getting silence on the question you asked because there are to many variables to explain reasons for Gun Violence.

Also you asked if not gun control then how to you stop the major gun violence. YOu get silence on this also because no one probably knows how to anser it. Do YOU?

UK legal gun ownership is virtually non exsistent, right! So why do you have gun violence and how do you stoip it’s increase. Tell us how you will do it and maybe we can learn from you!

 

[Imdaman]

yea and what are the violent death rates in general? Have they increased over the years? Usuall if guns are harder to find deth rates by someother factor go up substaintially.

 

[upant]

Bradskii’s question seems legitimate. Where is the genuine difference in the US if not gun ownership?

if it is the gun explain these numbers. they were ignored the first time i posted them.

explain to me these low ownership states:
Delaware 5% ownership 2015 murder rate of 6.6 per 100k
new joisy 11% ownership 2015 murder rate of 4.1 per 100k
crayzifornia 20% ownership 2015 murder rate of 4.8 per 100k

versus

idaho 57% ownership 2015 murder rate of 1.9 per 100k
wyoming 54% ownership 2015 murder rate of 2.7 per 100k
north dakota 48% ownership 2015 murder rate of 2.8 per 100k
hawaii 45% ownership 2015 murder rate of 2.0 per 100k

the big bad usa number is a joke in a diverse country. if it was gun ownership these numbers would be reversed.

this data is ignored because it doesn’t fit the gun control agenda.

 

[Bradskii]

Im afraid you missed the logic of Upants post. He is not comparing the US to the UK and Autralia. He is pointing out a serious flaw in your logic.

“If banning firearms works against gun violence why has it steadily increased in the UK and Australia?”

You are probaly getting silence on the question you asked because there are to many variables to explain reasons for Gun Violence.

Also you asked if not gun control then how to you stop the major gun violence. YOu get silence on this also because no one probably knows how to anser it. Do YOU?

UK legal gun ownership is virtually non exsistent, right! So why do you have gun violence and how do you stoip it’s increase. Tell us how you will do it and maybe we can learn from you!

How to do it? Hell, it’s so easy any country can do it. Just treat the ownership of a gun as being exceptional. In all my decades in the UK and Australia, I haven’t known ANYONE who owned a gun. I’ve only ever held one once. I’ve lived in countries that don’t feel it necessary to teach children how to avoid being shot in school.

Those countries have a gun death rate that are small fractions of yours. Do you want to reduce yours to something similar? Stop treating guns as a right. Can’t do it? Well, tough luck on every victim. Every child shot is the price you will pay.

 

[LilyM]

LilyM:

Bradskii’s question seems legitimate. Where is the genuine difference in the US if not gun ownership?

if it is the gun explain these numbers. they were ignored the first time i posted them.

explain to me these low ownership states:
Delaware 5% ownership 2015 murder rate of 6.6 per 100k
new joisy 11% ownership 2015 murder rate of 4.1 per 100k
crayzifornia 20% ownership 2015 murder rate of 4.8 per 100k

versus

idaho 57% ownership 2015 murder rate of 1.9 per 100k
wyoming 54% ownership 2015 murder rate of 2.7 per 100k
north dakota 48% ownership 2015 murder rate of 2.8 per 100k
hawaii 45% ownership 2015 murder rate of 2.0 per 100k

the big bad usa number is a joke in a diverse country. if it was gun ownership these numbers would be reversed.

this data is ignored because it doesn’t fit the gun control agenda.

Overall murder rate is lower? So. What are the proportions of guns vs other methods of killing being used in those murders in each state? And what about suicides (again comparing gun v non-gun as a method) and accidental shootings/deaths? If higher gun ownership states have a higher proportion of suicides, murders and accidental deaths being by gun, then it would suggest that ownership is a factor (though of course not the only one).

 

[SuperLuigi]

I would be happy to listen to any suggestions that might work. But unless we can change human nature, there seems no solution short of decreasing the number of guns.

Human nature is exactly why we need guns in the hands of citizens. In the USA, gun control was something first proposed by organized criminal gangs because they were tired of their guys getting gunned down whenever they tried to commit crimes against citizens.

The problem with gun control laws is that in the end it means the law-abiding citizens give up their guns, but the criminals who don’t follow the laws will get them anyways.

Nearly every single mass-shooting in America has happened in a gun-free zone.

As far as other countries go, that varies. Brazil has the strictest gun control, but has more murder and suicide per person than the USA. Areas like Chicago and Detroit have the most gun control but hundreds of murders per year.

If you want to avoid getting shot in America, then avoid drugs, gangs, domestic violence and drama in your social life. Do those things and the chances go down considerably.

True, I don’t always trust the government and wouldn’t want them armed while the citizens are not. But I feel like the National Guard would be a safeguard.

The average response time for the regular police is 23 minutes. Think of how much a desperate, angry person with guns can do against an unarmed population in 23 minutes.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Are you listening at all? Those solutions DO. NOT. WORK.

As far as Europe goes, they have an epidemic with trucks.

The reason why people don’t get shot as often is because of the culture, but that’s changing demographically. I think it could be only a matter of time before guns start up in these gun-free zones just like they do in America.

 

[upant]

What are the proportions of guns vs other methods of killing being used in those murders in each state?

well, i did not look that up since the issue i addressed was the gun murder rate per 100k

 

[Theo520]

You want to compare the UK and Australia with the US? Seriously?

You can learn much by studying the impact of their respective gun bans. As I recall in neither case was there a marked change in total homicides or suicides that correlated with such a decisive shift in gun availability. I guess people found substitutes or were still able to source their gun.

 

[JonNC]

The problem with gun control laws is that in the end it means the law-abiding citizens give up their guns, but the criminals who don’t follow the laws will get them anyways.

An even bigger problem than criminals is that government would still have guns. In the last century, it wasn’t criminals or law abiding citizens that killed tens of millions of civilians, it was governments.

 

[Imdaman]

I have been around guns all my life. All of my brothers own guns and most of their children. My daughter will be learning this year about gun safely and how to shoot.

I have never illed anyone or seen anyone killed. My brothers(that I know of) have never killed anyone or seen anyone killed.

So your answer to rising gun violence in your country is to down play the ownership of guns. So is it working or is gun violence still rising in your country?

 

[Bradskii]

Bradskii:

You want to compare the UK and Australia with the US? Seriously?

You can learn much by studying the impact of their respective gun bans. As I recall in neither case was there a marked change in total homicides or suicides that correlated with such a decisive shift in gun availability. I guess people found substitutes or were still able to source their gun.

You are missing the point completely. Australia didn’t bring in more gun controls to reduce the rate of gun deaths. We did it so that we wouldn’t end up like America.

After Port Arthur there was almost universal calls for more control on firearms simply because of that. Do you really think that we are dumb enough to think that it would solve all gun related violence? Our gun ownership rates are much higher than, for example, the UK because we have an enormous amount of rural properties and all farmers have guns for obvious reasons. So it’s not difficult to get your hands on one.

But it’s exceptionally rare for anyone in the city to own one. We don’t have this paranoia that we need firearms to protect us against criminals. And certainly no-one is crazy enough to think we need protection from our own government.

We treat guns as something for which you need a damn good reason for owning. We don’t want to turn into a society that needs to teach children in elementary schools how to barricade their classrooms.

We actually consider people who use guns violently the same way we consider men who ill treat women. Gutless. We treat them with contempt. We don’t consider arming ourselves to protect ourselves. That leads to a downward spiral and you end up looking at guns as a solution not a problem.

 

[Theo520]

Your political motivation has no relevance on whether the action and subsequent data provides additional insights on the cause and effect of your action.

Both the UK and Australia implemented severe gun control. While it has reduced the number of ‘gun’ deaths there appeared to be no correlation with total deaths from homicide or suicide. It does provide insight into whether the gun is causal or just a method than is readily substituted.

You were never at risk of becoming like the US, unless you drastically change your immigration policies.

You are missing the point completely. Australia didn’t bring in more gun controls to reduce the rate of gun deaths. We did it so that we wouldn’t end up like America.

After Port Arthur there was almost universal calls for more control on firearms simply because of that. Do you really think that we are dumb enough to think that it would solve all gun related violence? Our gun ownership rates are much higher than, for example, the UK because we have an enormous amount of rural properties and all farmers have guns for obvious reasons. So it’s not difficult to get your hands on one.

But it’s exceptionally rare for anyone in the city to own one. We don’t have this paranoia that we need firearms to protect us against criminals. And certainly no-one is crazy enough to think we need protection from our own government.

We treat guns as something for which you need a good reason for owning. We don’t want to turn into a society that needs to teach children in elementary schools how to barricade their classrooms.

We actually consider people who use guns violently the same way we consider men who ill treat women. Gutless. We treat them with contempt. We don’t consider arming ourselves to protect ourselves. That leads to a downward spiral and you end up looking at guns as a solution not a problem.

 

[Ender]

About 60% of gun deaths in the US are suicides.

 

[Ender]

More fun statistics on gun violence in the US.

Nonfatal firearm-related crime has fallen significantly in recent years, from almost 1.3 million incidents in 1994 to a low of 331,618 incidents in 2008. Since then it has risen; in 2011 there were 414,562 incidents.

As a percentage of all violent incidents (i.e., rape, sexual assault, robbery and aggravated assault), between 1993 and 2011, nonfatal gun crime has ranged from a high of 8 percent to a low of 5 percent. In 2011, firearm crimes comprised 8 percent of all violent crimes.