6000 year old earth

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Judas_Thaddeus said:
There are scientists who are Creationists, who believe the literal interpretation of Genesis Chapter 1 etc, but they do not use proper science. ANYONE can hold a doctorate and work in a lab and be known in history as a “scientist”, but that does not make Creationism in anyway based on Real Science.

Have you similarly checked and judged the credentials and methodologies of the secular scientists?

What you are giving is the “argument of authority” approach, saying “Look at all the
scientists saying evolution is false or questionable. Ain’t they pretty?!” believing that
this proves Creationism as valid science. It does not, but rather it’s a logical fallacy.
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Here is a recent Chuck Missler broadcast, youtube.com/watch?v=xkJe9re-8AI

Still think he is an amateur?
 
rossum said:
Strictly speaking, there is no science that confirms the specific YEC interpretation of the Creation account. The Theistic Evolutionist interpretation of the Creation account is amply supported by science.

There are many different interpretations of the Creation account. Ludicrously literal interpretations, such as the YEC interpretation, are indeed unsupported.

That is a good way of putting it. Every Christian can see that some passages are not literal:

Isaiah 55:12 “For you shall go out in joy and be led back in peace; the mountains and the hills before you shall burst into song, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands,”

Trees can clap their hands? Obviously poetry, not to be taken literally. Talking serpent? Obviously poetry, not to be taken literally. Magic trees in an enchanted garden? Obviously poetry, not to be taken literally.

Agreed. By insisting on such a ludicrously bad interpretation, YECs drive many people away.

“In discussing questions of this kind two rules are to be observed, as Augustine teaches. The first is, to hold to the truth of Scripture without wavering. The second is that since Holy Scripture can be explained in a multiplicity of senses, one should adhere to a particular explanation only in such measure as to be ready to abandon it if it be proved with certainty to be false, lest Holy Scripture be exposed to the ridicule of unbelievers, and obstacles be placed to their believing.”

– Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica

rossum
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May I ask, are you on here evangelising for Buddha?
One of several absolute Truths, This Universe is Finite
 
Freekevio said:
May I ask, are you on here evangelising for Buddha?
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I answer questions when asked. I do not initiate threads on the subject.
One of several absolute Truths, This Universe is Finite
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Does a finite universe have a boundary? The material universe has no boundary in space. Was there a time when the material universe did not exist? No, there was no time when the material universe did not exist. No boundary and no time when it did not exist. Does not sound very finite to me.

rossum
 
Freekevio said:
Have you similarly checked and judged the credentials and methodologies of the secular scientists?

Here is a recent Chuck Missler broadcast, youtube.com/watch?v=xkJe9re-8AI

Still think he is an amateur?
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Credentials? I have not, but I know that they are working in the real world, not with-
in pages of a Bible. Bible not Bad, just not designed to explain the physical world.

Now I am not going to devote my time again to your videos, besides
it appears to have nothing to do with the topic of this thread. It sure
does nothing to redeem that “dr” Morris fellow of his errors or you
for having used him to support your side.
 
Anyone who wants to debate this question should be required to take a basic 100 level geology class.
The Church is very wise to have respect for science and reason. And it is also very wise in not seeing the need to make infallible pronouncements about the innumerable issues that science has given clear cut answers to…
like whether the earth revolves around the sun or vice versa, or whether there is actually a dome above us holding the waters back, or whether the earth is 6000 years old.

God gave us eyes, ears, a brain…to be used well.
 
rossum said:
I answer questions when asked. I do not initiate threads on the subject.

So why come to a catholic forum? Lonely?

Does a finite universe have a boundary? The material universe has no boundary in space. Was there a time when the material universe did not exist? No, there was no time when the material universe did not exist. No boundary and no time when it did not exist. Does not sound very finite to me.

rossum
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You make assertions about the past and present yet on what do you base these ideas upon?
Certainly not Physics
 
Freekevio said:
So why come to a catholic forum? Lonely?
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I might ask you the same question. You do not have “Catholic” for your religion either.
You make assertions about the past and present yet on what do you base these ideas upon?
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Cosmology, and the standard model of the origin of the four dimensional Hausdorff manifold we live in about 13.5 billion years ago. There are some possible indications of a larger, surrounding multiverse, but there is as yet not enough evidence to be certain. Yes, I did study a unit in Cosmology as part of my Mathematical Physics degree.
Certainly not Physics
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Certainly Physics, or at least the sub-discipline of Physics called Cosmology.

rossum
 
rossum said:
I might ask you the same question. You do not have “Catholic” for your religion either.
**
Indeed but I know Jesus is Lord and believe in the Same Holy Trinity**

Cosmology, and the standard model of the origin of the four dimensional Hausdorff manifold we live in about 13.5 billion years ago. There are some possible indications of a larger, surrounding multiverse, but there is as yet not enough evidence to be certain. Yes, I did study a unit in Cosmology as part of my Mathematical Physics degree.

There are indeed some indications of a Larger reality in cosmological physics and of different dimensions too. I call it Heaven
The mulitverse idea is a desperate attempt by secular scientists to deny the provable idea that this universe had a beginning and will have an end. The multiverse idea from Hawkings et al is just embarrassing and can never be provable just as we can never see beyond the beginning of the “Big Bang”. Even Dawkins accepts this.

Certainly Physics, or at least the sub-discipline of Physics called Cosmology.

rossum
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I note with interest that you have not answered any questions on the prophetic questions from your holy book, too
 
Freekevio said:
There are indeed some indications of a Larger reality in cosmological physics and of different dimensions too.
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Correct. There is an article about those “indications” here: ‘Multiverse’ theory suggested by microwave background, though I suspect that is not exactly what you meant.

Science is very good at finding subtle clues about what went on in the distant past. Specifically, it has found many, many clues that the 6,000 year old earth proposed by Young Earth Creationists is grossly incorrect.
I note with interest that you have not answered any questions on the prophetic questions from your holy book, too
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So, you have no response to my question about the failed prophecy at Matthew 24:34.

As to prophecies from the Tripitaka:

Mind precedes all conditions,
mind is their chief, they are mind-made.
If you speak or act with an evil mind then suffering will follow you,
as the wheel follows the draught ox.

Mind precedes all conditions,
mind is their chief, they are mind-made.
If you speak or act with a pure mind then happiness will follow you,
as a shadow that never leaves.

– Dhammapada 1:1-2

I can see that those two prophecies are true every day of my life.

rossum
 
rossum said:
Correct. There is an article about those “indications” here: ‘Multiverse’ theory suggested by microwave background, though I suspect that is not exactly what you meant.

Science is very good at finding subtle clues about what went on in the distant past. Specifically, it has found many, many clues that the 6,000 year old earth proposed by Young Earth Creationists is grossly incorrect.

**If you check my earlier posts you will see that I am not either although days 2 to 7 are correct and we are still living in the 7th day
**

So, you have no response to my question about the failed prophecy at Matthew 24:34.

**I genuinely do not recall you asking me this but in any case I am happy to share that Jesus is referring to the end of this age when he will return in Great Glory and Power but look at the whole chapter and we can see that it begins with the complete destruction of Jerusalem which happened in 70 AD as well as His own Body. Prophetic scripture is not taken in little snippets such as that, but interwoven within Scripture. There will be a tribulation before the end of the age such as has never been seen before **

As to prophecies from the Tripitaka:

Mind precedes all conditions,
mind is their chief, they are mind-made.
If you speak or act with an evil mind then suffering will follow you,
as the wheel follows the draught ox.

Mind precedes all conditions,
mind is their chief, they are mind-made.
If you speak or act with a pure mind then happiness will follow you,
as a shadow that never leaves.

– Dhammapada 1:1-2

Our definitions of prophetic seem to be different, I am referring to things happening after they have been made and often hundreds and thousands of years before such as the return of the Jewish people to Israel, the successive empires which came after Daniel wrote about them. The hundreds of prophecies concerning Jesus in the OT, all 300 years and more before he came the first time,
Hence Phropetic

I can see that those two prophecies are true every day of my life.

rossum
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Freekevio said:
Our definitions of prophetic seem to be different,
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They are. Buddhism is a discovered religion, rediscovered by Gotama Buddha. Christianity is a revealed religion. Their approaches are different.

Buddhism ‘prophesies’ in small, practical things: “Do this and that will happen.” We use those prophesies to guide us in our everyday lives. It is an error to expect Buddhism to be like Christianity, they are different.

rossum
 
rossum said:
Correct. There is an article about those “indications” here: ‘Multiverse’ theory suggested by microwave background, though I suspect that is not exactly what you meant.

Science is very good at finding subtle clues about what went on in the distant past. Specifically, it has found many, many clues that the 6,000 year old earth proposed by Young Earth Creationists is grossly incorrect.

So, you have no response to my question about the failed prophecy at Matthew 24:34.

As to prophecies from the Tripitaka:

Mind precedes all conditions,
mind is their chief, they are mind-made.
If you speak or act with an evil mind then suffering will follow you,
as the wheel follows the draught ox.

Mind precedes all conditions,
mind is their chief, they are mind-made.
If you speak or act with a pure mind then happiness will follow you,
as a shadow that never leaves.

– Dhammapada 1:1-2

I can see that those two prophecies are true every day of my life.

rossum
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They are not exactly prophecies but rather maxims for an easy life here on earth with a few unanswered points such as how to you define what is good and bad? Is there an objective morality across all cultures? Who has the correct one on for example the age for marriage? who has the right to judge how people are doing? Who knows if people are putting on a front or acting from the Heart?

Also how do you explain the supernatural prophecies that always happen as forecast in the earlier books of Scripture? Does that not impress you in any way?
 
rossum said:
They are. Buddhism is a discovered religion, rediscovered by Gotama Buddha. Christianity is a revealed religion. Their approaches are different.

Indeed we are but with surprising similarities, such as we can all be godlike bit your faith depends on an eternal universe if I recall correctly which is patently not the case in this one

Buddhism ‘prophesies’ in small, practical things: “Do this and that will happen.” We use those prophesies to guide us in our everyday lives. It is an error to expect Buddhism to be like Christianity, they are different.

**So I take it you are in peace about the current atrocities in Syria and many other parts of this world? **

rossum
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By whose authority is it erroneous? What we believe and also declare about ourselves is very profoundly true but I wonder that you will do when the real tribulation comes? When the one Global government comes? Will you take the mark of the beast, which is by no means necessarily 666 but rather, an allegiance to a relatively newer but bloodier mono global religion with much religious rituals?
 
Freekevio said:
Indeed we are but with surprising similarities, such as we can all be godlike bit your faith depends on an eternal universe if I recall correctly which is patently not the case in this one
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Recall that we have different definitions of “universe”. The current STEM definition of universe is not eternal. Other definitions of “universe” are different. In particular the Buddhist/Hindu universe is eternal, alternating mixed material and spiritual phases with purely spiritual phases. The STEM universe is the current mixed phase.
So I take it you are in peace about the current atrocities in Syria and many other parts of this world?
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As in so many things, you are incorrect here.
By whose authority is it erroneous?
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Show me a 2000 year old contemporary of Christ and I might believe the prophecy to be correct. You might also find some Jewish websites interesting, particularly those dealing with the prophecies of the Messiah.

rossum
 
Thank you dear brother in Christ for your compassion but are not these the people who need to be free as much as the intellectual yet wisdom blind fools who are also lost? We should be happy to show love to all people for the sake of our King of Kings and Lord of Lords?
The creator of all things who did not just create the stars but placed them in an amazing order and named them all? The Heavens truly declare the Glory of God and all Love comes from God as God IS Love and the idea of reincarnation is but a confusion that we have been around longer then our birthday because we all existed in the Father long before the beginning of this Universe. I make a decision to Love you even though I do not know you and ask our Lord to Bless you
 
Hi, Rossum. Hey, I dug around a little, but I couldn’t find the post of yours that mentioned Matthew 24:34. Which number is it?
 
‘In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.’

I believe this!!! And I will let science attempt to figure out how God did it!
 
Dear Rossum: Found it, thank you.

I don’t want to disrupt the thread, so I will simply say that properly understood, Matthew 24:34 did indeed take place, and is in fact a remarkably striking fulfilled prophecy. You might look up sometime the preterist interpretation of New Testament prophecy (which, to be fair, even most Christians do not know. We have been biblically and intellectually lazy for far too long).

Jesus is speaking as a Jewish prophet. In all Jewish prophecy (Old Testament), the Lord’s “coming in the clouds” is always (ALWAYS) understood as the Lord coming in judgment against a nation or people or city. It is not referring to a glad, joyous event, but rather to a fearsome judgment. See, for example, the writings of New Testament scholar N.T. Wright for clear and popular summaries of semi-preterist thinking.

Understood in that way, Jesus’ words did indeed come to pass within one generation. The Lord returned in judgment against the city that rejected Him, using the Romans as His instrument, and the Temple was destroyed, as He prophesied, in that generation.

Best, Craig

p.s. As I said, I don’t want to disrupt the thread, and so I will not respond to anyone’s arguments about prophecy. best, cp
 
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