7 ways to ruin Muslim prayers

[Booklover]

Hi Booklover. Muslims can pray at any time in any place (without washing our hands) just like Christians do, such prayers/personal supplications are called ‘du’a’ in Muslim terms, and are considered to be the most noble act in the eyes of God in Islam. But what’s being referred to here is the specific Islamic ritual prayer/worship (called ‘Salat’); which is quite similar to the Catholic Rosary in many ways if you’re looking for an equivalent. The ritual washing (called wudu) that comes with *Salat *is just another part of it, all with the purpose of keeping the person in a constant state of remembrance of God. Jesus’ saying you’ve quoted there isn’t really relevant to Muslims performing wudu, since it’s primary purpose is remembrance of God, not outward cleaniness. Which is why if a Muslim doesn’t have any water available then they just use earth instead, which wouldn’t be true if the ritual was just about cleaning yourself.

Peace.

Why use earth, or let’s call it “dirt” at all! What does that prove? What if someone is in solitary confinement and has nothing to wash with, does that mean that his prayer is invalid?

As long as you Muslims are taught to hate kaffirs or anyone else who does not accept Muhammad as a prophet or Islam and its beliefs, what Jesus said does apply to you very well!

These are some excerpts of what’s being preached in mosques in England:

AU (Green Lane Mosque internet broadcast): **“No one loves the kuffaar. No one loves the kuffaar! … Not a single person here from the Muslims loves the kuffaar. Whether these kuffaar are from the UK, or from the US … We love the people of Islam and we hate the people of the kufr. We hate the kuffaars.” **

N: Filmed under cover, he says he does not agree with the violent actions of the terrorists, but he prefers them to non-Muslims –

AU: **“I don’t agree with those individuals (terrorists). But at the same time they’re closer to me than those criminals of the kufr… **(Green Lane Mosque internet broadcast) **He’s better than a million George Bushes Osama bin Laden. He’s better than a thousand Tony Blairs, because he’s a Muslim.” **
news.faithfreedom.org/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=984

Jesus also said this:
Mt 15, 17-20

Do you not realize that everything that enters the mouth passes into the stomach and is expelled into the latrine? **But the things that come from the mouth come from the heart, and they defile. For from the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, unchastity, theft, false witness, blasphemy. These are what defile a person, **but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile.

Do you understand what I mean?

Please explain to us in what way your salat is similar to the rosary.

Vickie

 

[Digitonomy]

Just some clarification, the link was listing things which break wudu, not giving ‘permissible sleeping positions’ (there’s nothing wrong with sleeping in any position). The general rule is that after a Muslim has slept they are to perform their ablutions before doing their next ritual prayer, but if they slept sitting down on a chair or something (for whatever reason) then performing abolutions isn’t necessary.

That makes a little more sense. Thanks for that clarification.

 

[Kadaveri]

You’re welcome Digit.

And Montalban, the ‘Satan in your nose’ thing is figurative, it’s not meant to be understood literally.

Why use earth, or let’s call it “dirt” at all! What does that prove? What if someone is in solitary confinement and has nothing to wash with, does that mean that his prayer is invalid?

Because the purpose of it isn’t just to wash, it’s to strengthen one’s remembrance of God, so using earth doesn’t detract from that. If someone is in solitary confinement then they would use the floor or the walls in the same way that one would use earth and their Salat wouldn’t be invalid in any way since that’s what they had to do. There’s a common theme in Islam that says God does not burden any soul with more than they can carry.

Salat is similar to the Rosary in many ways, both involve reciting prayers essential to the faith for instance; in Salat Muslims recite Al-Fatiha and other parts of the Qur’an, whereas in the Rosary Catholics recite the Lord’s Prayer and some other parts of the Bible. Also both performed in cycles, the Rosary being divided into decades, whereas Salat is divided into ‘rakat’. Both have set times in which they’re performed; like the Mysteries in the Rosary being recited on the night of different days, and different Salat being prescribed at different parts of the day. In both the worshippers often use prayer beads to keep count of their recitations.

And they’re many other similarities as well, but to keep it short, the only major difference between the two is that Salat also involves physical movements whereas the Rosary doesn’t.

Peace.

 

[jonfan]

Hi Booklover. Muslims can pray at any time in any place (without washing our hands) just like Christians do, such prayers/personal supplications are called ‘du’a’ in Muslim terms, and are considered to be the most noble act in the eyes of God in Islam. But what’s being referred to here is the specific Islamic ritual prayer/worship (called ‘Salat’); which is quite similar to the Catholic Rosary in many ways if you’re looking for an equivalent. The ritual washing (called wudu) that comes with *Salat *is just another part of it, all with the purpose of keeping the person in a constant state of remembrance of God. Jesus’ saying you’ve quoted there isn’t really relevant to Muslims performing wudu, since it’s primary purpose is remembrance of God, not outward cleaniness. Which is why if a Muslim doesn’t have any water available then they just use earth instead, which wouldn’t be true if the ritual was just about cleaning yourself.

Peace.

Hi Kadaveri and welcome,

is it true women who are menstruating can not praticipate in Muslim Prayer?

God bless,
Jon

 

[LilyM]

Meatfare and cheesfare: last day of meat before the Great Fast and last day of dairy before the Great Fast. Neither of these are required or obligatory in the East. It is considered a privelege and joy to perform such things as fasting (a very Jewish idea). As such, no chance for OCD.

Old Calendar and new align this year, so no problems there either. Even when they don’t, it isn’t a matter of rules but how the date is calculated.

I wouldn’t call the Eastern Catholic tradition a mishmash or poor. Nor would I use it to minimize or justify the Islamic traditions. Let each stand on its own. Let’s return to the topic of this thread, which is the invalidation of Muslim prayers.

Apologies Woodstock, the term ‘mishmash’ was illadvised. I didn’t mean to be critical. I was simply thinking of the different extents to which the different Eastern Catholic traditions adopt distinctly Orthodox or distinctly Catholic practices.

 

[Kadaveri]

No, women don’t perform Salat when they’re menstruating.

 

[Montalban]

And Montalban, the ‘Satan in your nose’ thing is figurative, it’s not meant to be understood literally.

How do you interpret it?

What schools of thought are you relying upon for your interpretation?

 

[Kadaveri]

Try this for example: islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1119503547528&pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaEAskTheScholar

 

[Reepicheep]

Tell me, is there anything spontaneous that Muslims can do, or do you have to look up everything in a book of rules before you can do anything?

This mode of behaviour is for robots or zombies, not rational human beings, but that is what Islam does, it dehumanizes the person and turns him into a slavish zombie, following rules blindly whether they make sense or not! A Christian can pray anytime, any place, and we don’t even have to wash our hands to do it! Muslims are worse than the worst of the Pharisees of Jesus’ time, and he called them “hypocrites!” They were more interested in a clean outside than what was inside!

Mt. 23, 25-28

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You cleanse the outside of cup and dish, but inside they are full of plunder and self-indulgence. Blind Pharisee, cleanse first the inside of the cup, so that the outside also may be clean.

Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites. You are like whitewashed tombs, which appear beautiful on the outside, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and every kind of filth. Even so, on the outside you appear righteous, but inside you are filled with hypocrisy and evildoing."

Vickie

Booklover:
I’ve heard this accusation made by Protestants against Catholics, and against Christians by atheists.
I suspect that any major religion will look like this to outsiders looking in.

As to your quote, please recall that Jesus was Himself an observant Jew. He was criticizing leaders of the religion in which He Himself had been raised.
Also He was not criticizing them on the grounds that their religion had too many rules. He was confronting them on their personal behavior.

 

[Montalban]

“The Prophet (Muhammed) said, ‘Yawning is from Satan and if anyone of you yawns, he should check his yawning as much as possible, for if anyone of you (during the act of yawning) should say: ‘Ha’, Satan will laugh at him.’” (Hadith, Sahih Bukhari 4:54:509)
usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/054.sbt.html#004.054.509
Volume 8, Book 73, Number 242:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, “Allah likes sneezing and dislikes yawning, so if someone sneezes and then praises Allah, then it is obligatory on every Muslim who heard him, to say: May Allah be merciful to you (Yar-hamuka-l-lah). But as regards yawning, it is from Satan, so one must try one’s best to stop it, if one says ‘Ha’ when yawning, Satan will laugh at him.”

Volume 8, Book 73, Number 243:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, " If anyone of you sneezes, he should say ‘Al-Hamdulillah’ (Praise be to Allah), and his (Muslim) brother or companion should say to him, ‘Yar-hamuka-l-lah’ (May Allah bestow his Mercy on you). When the latter says 'Yar-hamuka-llah", the former should say, ‘Yahdikumul-lah wa Yuslih balakum’ (May Allah give you guidance and improve your condition)."

Volume 8, Book 73, Number 244:

Narrated Anas:

Two men sneezed before the Prophet and he said Tashmit to one of them, while he did not say Tashmit to the other. So that man said, "O Allah’s Apostle! You said Tashmit to that fellow but you did not say Tashmit to me. "The Prophet said, “That man praised Allah, but you did not praise Allah.”

Volume 8, Book 73, Number 245:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, “Allah loves sneezing but dislikes yawning; so if anyone of you sneezes and then praises Allah, every Muslim who hears him (praising Allah) has to say Tashmit to him. But as regards yawning, it is from Satan, so if one of you yawns, he should try his best to stop it, for when anyone of you yawns, Satan laughs at him.”
usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/073.sbt.html#008.073.242
Book 042, Number 7129:

Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The yawning as from the devil. So when one of you yawns he should try to restrain it as far as it lies in his power.
usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/042.smt.html#042.7129

Try this for example: islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1119503547528&pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaEAskTheScholar

Funny, because it confirms a literal interpretation. Did you read it?

"Muslim scholars explain that the nose is one of the ways to one’s mind and thoughts. Satan tries to put his ideas and suggestions into the mind of a person during his sleep as well. "
Thus Satan can enter the body through the nose. I do note it also says to be ‘clean’, as well

 

[Montalban]

As to your quote, please recall that Jesus was Himself an observant Jew. He was criticizing leaders of the religion in which He Himself had been raised.
Also He was not criticizing them on the grounds that their religion had too many rules. He was confronting them on their personal behavior.

That’s right, He didn’t heal anyone on a Saturday! (being accused of breaking the Sabbath).

 

[inJESUS]

I guess one way to ruin a Muslim’s prayer if a dog or a woman passed before the praying one.

As to satan out of the nose, if it’s figurative, then what was muhammad trying to teach?

 

[Booklover]

Booklover:
I’ve heard this accusation made by Protestants against Catholics, and against Christians by atheists.
I suspect that any major religion will look like this to outsiders looking in.

As to your quote, please recall that Jesus was Himself an observant Jew. He was criticizing leaders of the religion in which He Himself had been raised.
Also He was not criticizing them on the grounds that their religion had too many rules. He was confronting them on their personal behavior.

Oh yes, he did! He told them that they were passing man made laws as God’s laws!

 

[patrick457]

Yeah, fasting was never something Jesus did. I’m soooo ashamed

Did you forget about the 40 Days of fasting in the desert (when He was tempted by Satan?)

Just one question though. Why do Muslims have so much rules to follow when praying?

 

[Booklover]

“The Prophet (Muhammed) said, ‘Yawning is from Satan and if anyone of you yawns, he should check his yawning as much as possible, for if anyone of you (during the act of yawning) should say: ‘Ha’, Satan will laugh at him.’” (Hadith, Sahih Bukhari 4:54:509)
usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/054.sbt.html#004.054.509
Volume 8, Book 73, Number 242:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, “Allah likes sneezing and dislikes yawning, so if someone sneezes and then praises Allah, then it is obligatory on every Muslim who heard him, to say: May Allah be merciful to you (Yar-hamuka-l-lah). But as regards yawning, it is from Satan, so one must try one’s best to stop it, if one says ‘Ha’ when yawning, Satan will laugh at him.”

Volume 8, Book 73, Number 243:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, " If anyone of you sneezes, he should say ‘Al-Hamdulillah’ (Praise be to Allah), and his (Muslim) brother or companion should say to him, ‘Yar-hamuka-l-lah’ (May Allah bestow his Mercy on you). When the latter says 'Yar-hamuka-llah", the former should say, ‘Yahdikumul-lah wa Yuslih balakum’ (May Allah give you guidance and improve your condition)."

Volume 8, Book 73, Number 244:

Narrated Anas:

Two men sneezed before the Prophet and he said Tashmit to one of them, while he did not say Tashmit to the other. So that man said, "O Allah’s Apostle! You said Tashmit to that fellow but you did not say Tashmit to me. "The Prophet said, “That man praised Allah, but you did not praise Allah.”

Volume 8, Book 73, Number 245:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, “Allah loves sneezing but dislikes yawning; so if anyone of you sneezes and then praises Allah, every Muslim who hears him (praising Allah) has to say Tashmit to him. But as regards yawning, it is from Satan, so if one of you yawns, he should try his best to stop it, for when anyone of you yawns, Satan laughs at him.”
usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/073.sbt.html#008.073.242
Book 042, Number 7129:

Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The yawning as from the devil. So when one of you yawns he should try to restrain it as far as it lies in his power.
usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/042.smt.html#042.7129

Funny, because it confirms a literal interpretation. Did you read it?

"Muslim scholars explain that the nose is one of the ways to one’s mind and thoughts. Satan tries to put his ideas and suggestions into the mind of a person during his sleep as well. "
Thus Satan can enter the body through the nose. I do note it also says to be ‘clean’, as well

Have you noticed how they can never give a simple answer without attacking the Bible? That’s because they have no answer!

Quote:
The author of this flyer ridicules this hadith. He considers this one of the “foolish and false statements” of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him).

He must have read his own Bible which has dozens of statements about Satan entering the bodies and bellies of people. The Gospel of John says that after Judas ate food from Jesus’ own hand, “Satan entered into him.” (John 13:27) So if after eating food from Jesus’ hand one could not be safe from Satan, what is surprising if an ordinary person has Satan near his nose during the night?"

Vickie

 

[Kadaveri]

I think you’ve misunderstood, the fatwa I linked to wasn’t attacking the Bible at all, it was just showing that it also uses figurative language to describe things, so there’s no need to call Muhammad (saaw) a fool for doing so (i.e. never Muhammad or the Bible are foolish, they just spoke in hyperboles).

And if anyone does wish to insist of a literal interpretation, then they’ll have to explain how Satan could be simultaneously up millions of people’s noses.

I’ve never been able to grasp how this myth that a dog or a woman passing in front of someone praying nullfies their prayer has gotten so widespread. The only place I can imagine this to come from is a Hadith when some people said this to 'Aisha, to which she said that wasn’t true, infact the Prophet often used to pray when she was lying in her bed in front of him. Considering this actually says the exact opposite, I remain baffled.

 

[inJESUS]

I’ve never been able to grasp how this myth that a dog or a woman passing in front of someone praying nullfies their prayer has gotten so widespread. The only place I can imagine this to come from is a Hadith when some people said this to 'Aisha, to which she said that wasn’t true, infact the Prophet often used to pray when she was lying in her bed in front of him. Considering this actually says the exact opposite, I remain baffled.

yes hadith.

Abu Dharr reported: **THE MESSENGER OF 'ALLAH **(may peace be upon him) SAID: When any one of you stands for prayer and there is a thing before him equal to the back of the saddle that covers him and in case there is not before him (a thing) equal to the back of the saddle, **HIS PRAYER WOULD BE CUT OFF BY (passing of an) *, WOMAN, AND BLACK DOG. I said: O Abu Dharr, what feature is there in a black dog which distinguish it from the red dog and the yellow dog? He said: O, son of my brother, I asked the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) as you are asking me, and he said: The black dog is a devil. (Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 1032)

Abu Huraira reported: THE MESSENGER OF ALLAH (may peace be upon him) SAID: A WOMAN, AN *** AND A DOG DISRUPT THE PRAYER, but something like the back of a saddle guards against that. (Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 1034)

If Aisha said it’s wrong, either Aisha felt the need to save women from embarrassment or Muhammad said one thing in front of his followers but did the opposite in the presence of Aisha.

 

[inJESUS]

“The Prophet (Muhammed) said, 'Yawning is from Satan and if anyone of you yawns, he should check his yawning as much as possible, for if anyone of you (during the act of yawning) should say: ‘Ha’, Satan will laugh at him.’” (Hadith, Sahih Bukhari 4:54:509)
usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/054.sbt.html#004.054.509
Volume 8, Book 73, Number 242:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, "Allah likes sneezing and dislikes yawning, so if someone sneezes and then praises Allah, then it is obligatory on every Muslim who heard him, to say: May Allah be merciful to you (Yar-hamuka-l-lah). But as regards yawning, it is from Satan, so one must try one’s best to stop it, if one says ‘Ha’ when yawning, Satan will laugh at him."

Volume 8, Book 73, Number 243:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, " If anyone of you sneezes, he should say ‘Al-Hamdulillah’ (Praise be to Allah), and his (Muslim) brother or companion should say to him, ‘Yar-hamuka-l-lah’ (May Allah bestow his Mercy on you). When the latter says 'Yar-hamuka-llah", the former should say, ‘Yahdikumul-lah wa Yuslih balakum’ (May Allah give you guidance and improve your condition)."

Muhammad seemed pretty hmmm “serious”. Oh my. Allah hates yawning :bigyikes:

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

I think maybe Muhammad hated his followers yawning during his interminable sermons.

“Yaawwwn - Is this guy finished already? I’m so dying to raid some caravans, rape some female captives and kill some Jews.”

You know - that sort of thing.

 

[Montalban]

Have you noticed how they can never give a simple answer without attacking the Bible? That’s because they have no answer!

Vickie

A good point. It’s an attempt to make a relativist argument, or at changing the direction of the discussion to putting Christians on the defensive. For instance, when I raise the issue of Muhammad and his child bride (Aisha was only 9 years old, Muhammad was in his 40’s) they quote stats about teens being able to marry, etc. Never do they directly argue for what he did, but try a “Well if you think we’re bad, we’re not alone” argument.