72 Virgins

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To Emad, continue…

Example how the Bible teaches me to eat:

**Mathew chapter 8: 10-12
10Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen and understand. 11What goes into a man’s mouth does not make him ‘unclean,’ but what comes out of his mouth, that is what makes him ‘unclean.’ "
12Then the disciples came to him and asked, “Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this?”

Matthew 15:17-19
17"Don’t you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man ‘unclean.’ 19For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.**

Some of the old laws of Moses like prohibition of eating certain foods are superceded by the new law of Jesus which is based on love. This is necessary because people focus too much on the observance of the law, but forget the spirit of the law to which it is originally intended. Thus Jesus by giving the new commandment emphasized what’s more important – the spirit of the law.

What goes into one’s mouth doesn’t matter much because it will comes out as waste, but what comes out of one’s mouth (our speech for example).

When we eat we give thank to God because it come from Him through His goodness. Thus before we eat we say a prayer asking God to bless the food and acknowledge that it’s from His bounty. In this way the food will become a source of nutrition not only for the body but also for the soul. After eating, we also say a prayer thanking God for the food eaten.

Example how the Bible teaches me to sleep:

Ephesians 4:25
Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry…


Do not bring your anger after the sun goes down. We go to sleep only after we reconcile with people around us, with ourselves and with God. As the case maybe, reconciliation involved giving forgiveness to those who have wronged us, examination of conscience on what we have done wrong during the day so that we can repent before God and then have a good night rest and be refreshed the day after.

Example how the Bible teaches me to Deal with my spouse:

**Ephesians 5:28
So husbands ought also to [Eph 5:25, 33; 1 Pet 3:7] love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself;

Ephesians 5:33
Nevertheless, each individual among you also is to [Eph 5:25, 28; 1 Pet 3:7] love his own wife even as himself, and the wife must see to it that she [1 Pet 3:2, 5] respects her husband. **

Ephesians 5:22-33
22Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. 25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church— 30for we are members of his body. 31"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." 32This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.


I think these verses are very clear and self-explanatory. I personally believe that Christian marriage is the most beautiful gift by Christian’s God for those who choose marriage as a vocation in life.

The husband is commanded to love his wife like how Christ loves His church. Christ loves His church (His people) by giving His own life. This is how the husband should love his wife. He will regard his wife’s body like his own body. This mean Christian husband should never ever physically beat his wife, because to do so is like beating his own body.

The wife, on the other hand, is commanded by God to submit to her husband. Submission is not something ugly like husband lording it over her. Submission to her husband only on matters pertaining to what is right before God. Example, she will not submit to her husband if he asks her to commit murder, because that’s wrong before God.

Example how the Bible teaches me to run a business:

Luke 19 - Zacchaeus the Tax Collector

I give this one example on the principle of running a business.

Focus of Christianity in a business is not to make excessive profit or accumulating personal wealth.

Also, true Christians should not be too preoccupied with his business because to them it’s just a matter of earning livelihood, just like any other jobs or professions. Besides, one does not bring to the next life one’s material possession.
 
To Emad, continue…

I offer you more examples about how the Bible teaches me in my ways of life ……

Example how the Bible teaches me how to live in a country:

1 Peter 2:13-14
13Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, 14or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right.


Christians are asked to obey the authority of the country. We consider ourselves not of the world but only in the world. True home is heaven but while in this world, Christians are exhorted to be model of good citizens and obey the authority. It is for God to reward or deal with them (authorities) if they are good or unjust.

Example how the Bible teaches me about my relationship with my friend

John 15:12-14
12My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. 14You are my friends if you do what I command.


Christians are exhorted to be loyal to his friend. Defend him if necessary and not, for example, talk behind his back or betray him.

Example how the Bible teaches me to live a righteous life

**Galatian chapter 5:16-26
Code:
16So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 17For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law. 

19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. 

22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.**
I think these verses are self-explanatory. You can ask for clarification though.

Example how the Bible teaches me to view laws, for example cirscumcision

**Galatians 5:3-6

3Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the righteousness for which we hope. 6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.**

Again, by itself the law is nothing, if one’s heart in not in synchronism with God’s intention. Just by observing the law, in this case circumcision, does not make one automatically right with God. The law is good insomuch it is a sign of our covenant with God that reminds us to live accordingly to His will.

Specifically, if one does not love, all the laws revealed by to Moses, do not mean thing to the person concerned in the eyes of God.

That’s all. The reply is long, I know. Please take your time.

Peace.

God bless you, Emad, my friend.

Reuben. 🙂
 
I’m surprised everyone assumes that “virgins” is the correct translation of the Arabic. Recent research into the Qur’an and it’s language reveals that Arabs at the time of Muhammad had adopted many words from Aramaic. Many of these words, current research suggests, ended up in the Qur’an. One such Aramaic word was ‘Alaha’, which became ‘Allah’ in Arabic; thus, the word Jesus used for ‘God’ might have been pretty much the same word Muhammad used for ‘God’.

A recent book also suggests that the much-discussed ‘virgins’ in the Qur’an is actually a misunderstanding of what was originally an Aramaic (Syriac) word:

Christoph Luxenberg’s book, Die Syro-Aramaische Lesart des Koran, available only in German, came out just over a year ago, but has already had an enthusiastic reception, particularly among those scholars with a knowledge of several Semitic languages at Princeton, Yale, Berlin, Potsdam, Erlangen, Aix-en-Provence, and the Oriental Institute in Beirut. Luxenberg tries to show that many obscurities of the Koran disappear if we read certain words as being Syriac and not Arabic. We cannot go into the technical details of his methodology but it allows Luxenberg, to the probable horror of all Muslim males dreaming of sexual bliss in the Muslim hereafter, to conjure away the wide-eyed houris promised to the faithful in suras XLIV.54; LII.20, LV.72, and LVI.22. Luxenberg 's new analysis, leaning on the Hymns of Ephrem the Syrian, yields “white raisins” of “crystal clarity” rather than doe-eyed, and ever willing virgins - the houris. Luxenberg claims that the context makes it clear that it is food and drink that is being offerred, and not unsullied maidens or houris.

In Syriac, the word hur is a feminine plural adjective meaning white, with the word “raisin” understood implicitly. Similarly, the immortal, pearl-like ephebes or youths of suras such as LXXVI.19 are really a misreading of a Syriac expression meaning chilled raisins (or drinks) that the just will have the pleasure of tasting in contrast to the boiling drinks promised the unfaithful and damned.
 
Hello Rueben I have found this thread and will respond tonight inshaallah (God willing).
 
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Ahimsa:
I’m surprised everyone assumes that “virgins” is the correct translation of the Arabic. Recent research into the Qur’an and it’s language reveals that Arabs at the time of Muhammad had adopted many words from Aramaic.
Interesting theory, but with all due respect, Jesus never called God al-Lah and the god al-Lah predates Islam in the Arabic pagan tradition.

By the way, how many 20 year old men do you know who would kill themselves for raisins? 😃 However, I still think we are talking about poetic phrases for total Ecstasy.
.
 
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fatuma:
Description of Jannah(heaven):

whyislam.org/forum/forum…=3465&KW=Jannah

wa salam
Huris for everyone please.

Sensual paradise

🙂

This is pointless, revelations speaks of mansions, which is once again metaphorical.

The trouble with muslims, and islam is that they are stuck with the problem of ijtihad.

Everything is bidaa, and anyone who innovates is a Kaafir.

Ask me, I will tell you all about it.
 
So a religion that propagates orgies seems all well and good for Muslims? I will never follow a religon like this and allah is not my God if this is so.
 
People need to understand that this is*** a** * reward in heaven not *the * reward. Being in the presence of God is the true and ultimate reward.

wa salam
 
In the Name of Allah Most Gracious Most Merciful

Rueben Blue
Emad Black

First this is going to be a very long reply, so it may take me some time. Second, remember that my question was for you to show me how the Bible gives you a complete way of life. That means that it has an answer for everything.

Example how the Bible teaches me how to live in a country:

1 Peter 2:13-14
13Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, 14or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right.

What if the government are wrong doers? What if they ask you to leave your faith? Please show me what the Bible says about this.

John 15:12-14
12My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. 14You are my friends if you do what I command.

Christians are exhorted to be loyal to his friend. Defend him if necessary and not, for example, talk behind his back or betray him.

What if your friend is a wrong doer, do you also have to defend him? Does the Bible tell you who to take as friends and who not to take as friends?

This is enough for now. God willing we can continue from here later. 🙂
 
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Emad:
What if your friend is a wrong doer, do you also have to defend him? Does the Bible tell you who to take as friends and who not to take as friends?

This is enough for now. God willing we can continue from here later. 🙂
Obviously do not take as freinds people who do wrong, who will lead you astray.

Is there anything wrong with being freinds with a muslim?

No, unless he leads you away from Christ.
 
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hawk:
Obviously do not take as freinds people who do wrong, who will lead you astray.

Is there anything wrong with being freinds with a muslim?

No, unless he leads you away from Christ.
Can you show me where that is mentioned in the Bible?
 
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Emad:
Can you show me where that is mentioned in the Bible?
(Hebrews 10:28-31 NIV) [28] Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. [29] How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? [30] For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” [31] It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

And again

(James 4:4 NIV) You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.

Muslims treat as unholy the saving blood of Christ, as a convert you will find me less yielding than cradle catholics.

But I also realise I am in a unique position as is this woman

spiderbuilder.com/templates/common/structure.cfm?page=page3&site_id=2162

Please check out her website, we are in a unique position to bring Christ to muslims , cos we know how to deal with their objections, and we also know how they think, so I think I owe it to muslims to guide them to Christ.
 
hawk said:
(Hebrews 10:28-31 NIV) [28]
Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. [29] How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? [30] For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” [31] It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

And again

(James 4:4 NIV) You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.

Muslims treat as unholy the saving blood of Christ, as a convert you will find me less yielding than cradle catholics.

But I also realise I am in a unique position as is this woman

spiderbuilder.com/templates/common/structure.cfm?page=page3&site_id=2162

Please check out her website, we are in a unique position to bring Christ to muslims , cos we know how to deal with their objections, and we also know how they think, so I think I owe it to muslims to guide them to Christ.

Lets not get off topic. If you want to talk about Islamic history please go to the WhyIslam forum and many will discuss it there with you. The verses you quoted above don’t answer my question. I don’t see how the first one relates to the topic and the second one speaks about befriending the world and not a person. Islam is also against befriending this life too. We already have Jesus peace be upon him, no need for you to guide us to him.
🙂
 
It’s George Washington, Patrick Henry, James Madison, Thomas Jefferson, George Mason, James Monroe…and 66 other VIRGINIANS. Someone’s gonna be real surprised. And not hapily.
Peace,
Paul
 
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Emad:
Lets not get off topic. If you want to talk about Islamic history please go to the WhyIslam forum and many will discuss it there with you. The verses you quoted above don’t answer my question. I don’t see how the first one relates to the topic and the second one speaks about befriending the world and not a person. Islam is also against befriending this life too. We already have Jesus peace be upon him, no need for you to guide us to him.
🙂
Oh dear you have not tried to understand the verses I have provided.
It says very clearly, that a person who denys the Son of God, is trampling Him underfoot.

This is precisely what you do, as muslims.

I dont know what more you wish to understand form the verses
 
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Emad:
In the Name of Allah Most Gracious Most Merciful

Rueben Blue
Emad Black

First this is going to be a very long reply, so it may take me some time. Second, remember that my question was for you to show me how the Bible gives you a complete way of life. That means that it has an answer for everything.

Example how the Bible teaches me how to live in a country:

1 Peter 2:13-14
13Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, 14or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right.

What if the government are wrong doers? What if they ask you to leave your faith? Please show me what the Bible says about this.

John 15:12-14
12My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. 14You are my friends if you do what I command.

Christians are exhorted to be loyal to his friend. Defend him if necessary and not, for example, talk behind his back or betray him.

What if your friend is a wrong doer, do you also have to defend him? Does the Bible tell you who to take as friends and who not to take as friends?

This is enough for now. God willing we can continue from here later. 🙂
HI Emad,

The above subject is a digress from the topice of this thread (the 72 Virgins). I don’t wish to hijack this thread and so I have started a new thread **Does The Bible Gives A Complete Ways Of Life? ** I post my rsponse to you there. Please refer to the new thread.

Peace.

Reuben 🙂
 
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gilliam:
Interesting theory, but with all due respect, Jesus never called God al-Lah and the god al-Lah predates Islam in the Arabic pagan tradition.

By the way, how many 20 year old men do you know who would kill themselves for raisins? 😃 However, I still think we are talking about poetic phrases for total Ecstasy.
.
As Arabic and Aramaic are both semetic languages they both derive their name of God frmo the same source. El and Al are both the root in Aramaic and Arabic.
 
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gilliam:
Interesting theory, but with all due respect, Jesus never called God al-Lah and the god al-Lah predates Islam in the Arabic pagan tradition.

By the way, how many 20 year old men do you know who would kill themselves for raisins? 😃 However, I still think we are talking about poetic phrases for total Ecstasy.
.
As Arabic and Aramaic are both semetic languages they both derive their name of God frmo the same source (both at one time having referenced a pagan deity). El and Al are both the root in Aramaic and Arabic. I’m not saying they mean the same thing, but they are connected to that extent.
 
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