72 Virgins

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Emad:
Yes I will be more than happy to. However due to my limited time I would appreciate if you can post one or two questions at a time and I will answer them.

🙂
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Thanks Emad.

Let me explain why I ask before I ask. I will be totally honest. I find it very odd that God would use sex as an enticement to reach heaven.

That being said here is my first question:

Are the virgins and servants that are mentioned in the Qur’an human?

Someone already answered no but gave no backup resource. Is this answer supported by Qur’an or Hadith?
 
If the dead person can have sex with 72 virgins, why can he not have sex with his wife who is still alive ?
 
Hello Iamrefreshed. It is not odd at all for God to use sex as an enticement. What do humans love most? What are the pleasures of this life? Food, drink, clothes, sexual relations, big houses etc. The women of paradise are not from the childres on Adam, meaning they are not humans like you and me. There are hadith that support this, but I don’t have the time to go and find them now. The Quran also states that these women have never been touched by a human or jinn before. That also implies that they are not human. 055.056 "In them will be (Maidens), chaste, restraining their glances, whom no man or Jinn before them has touched;- "

Here is an important point that I posted on the WhyIslam thread about 72 virgins: First of all I would like to point out the Prophet peace be upon him used the number 72. In Arabic the number 70, or 100 doesn’t mean exact, it is a form of speech that means plenty or a lot. For example Allah said in the Quran to the Prophet peace be upon him about the hypocrites " if thou ask seventy times for their forgiveness, Allah will not forgive them" It doesn’t mean exactly 70 it is just an expression of plenty. The Prophet peace be upon him also said “Verily I ask Allah Forgiveness 70 times every day” and in another narration he said 100 times.

I hope I answered your questions. If not please don’t hesitate to ask for further clarification.

Emad 🙂
 
We Christians don’t believe any of this rubbish, so why are we wasting time on this ridiculous thread!😛
 
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Booklover:
We Christians don’t believe any of this rubbish, so why are we wasting time on this ridiculous thread!😛
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Please don’t call my beliefs “rubbish” I try my best to talk to all Christians here with as much respect as possible and would appreciate if you do the same. Why do you call learning other religions a waste of time?
 
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Emad:
Please don’t call my beliefs “rubbish” I try my best to talk to all Christians here with as much respect as possible and would appreciate if you do the same. Why do you call learning other religions a waste of time?
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We as Christians already know that since there will be no need for procreation in Heaven, there will be no marriage and no sex! After all, the main purpose of sex is procreation, not lust and self gratification! I was referring to the 72 virgins bit, not Islam in general.
 
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Emad:
Hello Iamrefreshed. It is not odd at all for God to use sex as an enticement. What do humans love most? What are the pleasures of this life? Food, drink, clothes, sexual relations, big houses etc. The women of paradise are not from the childres on Adam, meaning they are not humans like you and me. There are hadith that support this, but I don’t have the time to go and find them now. The Quran also states that these women have never been touched by a human or jinn before. That also implies that they are not human. 055.056 "In them will be (Maidens), chaste, restraining their glances, whom no man or Jinn before them has touched;- "

Here is an important point that I posted on the WhyIslam thread about 72 virgins: First of all I would like to point out the Prophet peace be upon him used the number 72. In Arabic the number 70, or 100 doesn’t mean exact, it is a form of speech that means plenty or a lot. For example Allah said in the Quran to the Prophet peace be upon him about the hypocrites " if thou ask seventy times for their forgiveness, Allah will not forgive them" It doesn’t mean exactly 70 it is just an expression of plenty. The Prophet peace be upon him also said “Verily I ask Allah Forgiveness 70 times every day” and in another narration he said 100 times.

I hope I answered your questions. If not please don’t hesitate to ask for further clarification.

Emad 🙂
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Thank you for your explanation Emad. It is the first one I have been given that I can understand. While I can now understand that these “virgins” are not once human I would REALLY like some supporting documentation from Hadith.

While I believe that Muslims accept this I cannot reconcile myself to the concept. I do not believe that God uses a carrot and stick mentality to convince us of the benefits of Heaven. As others have also stated, sex, for Catholics, is a blessing from God, whose purpose for it is procreation, not lusty satisifaction.

If I were a drug addict, would God promise me untold amounts of heroin as my heavenly reward? Before you tell me drugs are bad and sex is not realize what you have told me about (sex, houses, food and drink) implies GLUTTONY.
 
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iamrefreshed:
Thank you for your explanation Emad. It is the first one I have been given that I can understand. While I can now understand that these “virgins” are not once human I would REALLY like some supporting documentation from Hadith.

While I believe that Muslims accept this I cannot reconcile myself to the concept. I do not believe that God uses a carrot and stick mentality to convince us of the benefits of Heaven. As others have also stated, sex, for Catholics, is a blessing from God, whose purpose for it is procreation, not lusty satisifaction.

If I were a drug addict, would God promise me untold amounts of heroin as my heavenly reward? Before you tell me drugs are bad and sex is not realize what you have told me about (sex, houses, food and drink) implies GLUTTONY.
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Hello iamrefreshed. Paradise is a place of pleasures. Its pleasures are not like the ones of this world. For example in Islam we believe paradise has wine, but it doesn’t intoxicate. The only things that are similar is the names. In Islam we also believe that a purpose of marriage is procreation, however it is not the only purpose. One of its purpose it to fulfill your desires in a legitimate and legal way. I don’t think many people get married for the sole purpose of having children.

Why do people work? Isn’t it for the paycheck at the end of the month? Would you work as hard if you knew that your paycheck was a million dollars? God tells us if we do XYZ we get ABC. It is only fair to know what your salary is, isn’t it?

What is the Christian view of paradise?
 
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Emad:
Hello iamrefreshed. Paradise is a place of pleasures. Its pleasures are not like the ones of this world. For example in Islam we believe paradise has wine, but it doesn’t intoxicate. The only things that are similar is the names. In Islam we also believe that a purpose of marriage is procreation, however it is not the only purpose. One of its purpose it to fulfill your desires in a legitimate and legal way. I don’t think many people get married for the sole purpose of having children.

Why do people work? Isn’t it for the paycheck at the end of the month? Would you work as hard if you knew that your paycheck was a million dollars? God tells us if we do XYZ we get ABC. It is only fair to know what your salary is, isn’t it?

What is the Christian view of paradise?
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Emad

I respect your beliefs but again, they are yours, not mine.

Heaven is, simply, living our eternity in the presence of God. After all, once in the presence of God, wouldn’t everything else pale in comparison?

Could you imagine leaving God’s presence to have a glass of wine and sex with a virgin?
 
I can not quote this hadith since I know it and am not going to search for it all over the internet.

If one of the women of heaven were to be on this earth for only one second than her glory would blind all mankind.

thats a hadith about the women of heaven, paraphrased. Maybe someone else knows a better more convincing one.

And, about the drugs, you wouldnt need heroin to feel that good in heaven. You’d be in heaven, and you can feel a whole lot better than even when on the highest of highs.

It is certainly gluttony if you do it here, it will ruin youre life and you have been commanded to abstain from all of it by God. However your reward for this abstinence is an abundance of it when you die.

think of it this way: Is it fair that there are people on this Earth who are doing what we all, deep down, would do (OK lets assume no STDs and no babies here) if God didnt say not to? It only seems fair that these people who disobey are not going to end up with the upper hand and that after death you will be given something much greater than anything this Earth can offer.

And everyone look at proud kafirs respose to me, I found it rather humorous as he is clearly extremely anti-islam.
 
Iamrefreshed thanks for the link. I will be sure to look at it when I get a chance. Also thank you for respecting my beliefs. I know they are mine and not yours, and I am not trying to make you accept them. All I want to do is explain them to you in the best possible manner. I want to make it clear that I am not here to “convert” anyone. Just to give people a better understanding of Islam to the best of my ability.

As for being in the presence of God Muslims also believe this. We believe that being with God is the greatest pleasure in paradise, better than the virgins, food, drink etc. As for the hadith, there are more than one that speak about this. However I really don’t have the time to search for them. If you wish you can go to the WhyIslam forum and ask for them there. I am sure someone will post them for you.

🙂
 
We need a good moderator here who will delete offensive posts, which (to my shame as a Christian) have so far all been done by other Christians (from what I have seen).
 
"Paradise is a place of pleasures. Its pleasures are not like the ones of this world. For example in Islam we believe paradise has wine, but it doesn’t intoxicate. The only things that are similar is the names. In Islam we also believe that a purpose of marriage is procreation, however it is not the only purpose. One of its purpose it to fulfill your desires in a legitimate and legal way. I don’t think many people get married for the sole purpose of having children.

Why do people work? Isn’t it for the paycheck at the end of the month? Would you work as hard if you knew that your paycheck was a million dollars? God tells us if we do XYZ we get ABC. It is only fair to know what your salary is, isn’t it?

What is the Christian view of paradise?"

Simple paraphrase of Catholic’s answer as to why God made me. God made me to love Him and to do His will so that I will be forever with Him in Heaven. The reward of heaven is to be with God, my creator. Like my soul will not rest until it rests in Him.The motivation of heaven is not to fulfill our flesh’s desire. I could do that if I am rich or healthy. In today’s world we can nearly achieve all these if we are smart enough. The desire of the flesh like sex, beauty or food is to quench our bodily needs. Eyes relishes beauty, and therefore I would like to look beautiful or handsome. Ears like to hear praise and therefore I would be in search for that. Similary as in the case of sexual needs, smell and touch. Their desire is to appease their needs. Bible tells us all of these will lead to sin.

The good news is, while in this world we struggle to satisfy the desire of our flesh, in heaven there is no necessity anymore! One doesn’t need that anymore for in the presence of God, my Creator, there is joy! Heavenly pleasure is not fulfilling human desire of the flesh but basking in the presence of God which is greater than all things imaginable. Christian motivation for heaven therefore does not dwell on the fulfilling of human desire as dictated by the desire of the flesh but on being with God Himself, the ultimate reward. Thus in Christianity, God does not entice us with human wants but rather the opposite, God’s wants, His love, as the ultimate rewards. God will never contradict Himself.

Peace.

Reuben 🙂
 
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iamrefreshed:
Thanks Emad.

Let me explain why I ask before I ask. I will be totally honest. I find it very odd that God would use sex as an enticement to reach heaven.
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Exactly! Look at the fruits of the “sex for pleasure only” ideology:
Contraception, abortion, rampant immorality, promiscuity, “same-sex” marriage, immodesty. Another evil of Roe v. Wade was the killing of an innocent human being by starvation and thirst, because the authors of the culture of death didn’t think she was fit to live!

Does it sound possible that God, who is all goodness, would reward people in Heaven by something that caused so much evil here on earth?:hmmm:
 
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Booklover:
Exactly! Look at the fruits of the “sex for pleasure only” ideology:
Contraception, abortion, rampant immorality, promiscuity, “same-sex” marriage, immodesty. Another evil of Roe v. Wade was the killing of an innocent human being by starvation and thirst, because the authors of the culture of death didn’t think she was fit to live!

Does it sound possible that God, who is all goodness, would reward people in Heaven by something that caused so much evil here on earth?:hmmm:
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Sex is something natural. To deny that humans have sexual desires is illogical. Islam allows sex through marriage and only marriage. Sex is bad if it is done outside marriage and brings all the bad things you mentioned above. What is wrong with sex if it is done through marriage? The people who have sex in this life outside marriage will be denied it in the hereafter unless they repent, while those who had sex in the correct way in this life will have it in the hereafter.

There is nothing wrong with having sex for pleasure through marriage. In Islam pleasure is not the only purpose for sex but it is one of them. Don’t tell me that all of you Christians have sex all the time just for bringing steve or mary into the world. Pleasure is defenitely a driving force.
 
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Eetaq:
They are not deceased humans, they are just sort of heaven-beings, and much more attractive than anyone ever to walk the earth mind you 😉 😉
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Are they jinn?
 
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