73 Book Bible...How Important?

[Ernie07]

THANKS Emie07

PERSONALLY, I don’t think any Catechist, or any person called to share our Catholic Faith can afford to omit EITHER the 73 books or wrong interpretations.

We’re dealing with GOD"S Divinely Inspired WORDS & Teachings here and SOULS are the stake.

Girding and underlying ALL Faith -sharing is the issue of TRUTH, which I have time & time again insisted can only be SINGULAR be defined issue. NOTHING else is a logical or a MORAL possibility.

If sticking to GOD"S TRUTHS gets Us branded as “rigid” & inflexible; so be it:shrug:

Matthew 5:12
Be glad and rejoice, for your reward is very great in heaven. For so they persecuted the prophets that were before you.

John 15:20
Remember my word that I said to you: The servant is not greater than his master. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you: if they have kept my word, they will keep yours also

Either GOD is permitted to be in charge or He’s not

We live in an age of “MEISM”, and we must not bow to it; as it is a FALSE god.

So with Charity AND clarity [FACTS], we must continue to fight the “GOOD” fight

GOD Bless you and thanks for reading my post!

Patrick

Inspiring stuff Patrick!! Thank you for your insights and thoughts!! I’m just not too confident I can do the charity part of fighting the good fight!!! Haha!

-Ernie-

 

[Ernie07]

I’m a competitive son-of-a-gun, Deacon. Sometimes I think I use that trait for the Lord and many other times for myself. My competitive tone is related to winning for the Lord (and therefore all people) in this case…that’s at least my intent!

The bottom line to me is that Catholics use a 73 book Bible while most non-Catholics use a 66 book Bible hence “my” book versus “their” book. It just is what it is. Not my fault they chose to change what comprises the Word of God. Again, your attitude of their book being “pretty much our book” is the issue to me. “Pretty much” isn’t good enough.

I’m not questioning the inspiration and validity of the 66 books that are in their Bible because as you stated those are in our Bible as well. I’m questioning the 7 that aren’t there and therefore questioning the whole. If I don’t then at what number should I question it? What if another heretical group popped up and said that the Holy Spirit just told them that 5 additional books in the Bible aren’t inspired and we should only use 61 books? Those 61 are also within our Bible so should we be OK with that? If not, then we should respectfully, yet directly and boldly, challenge the 66 book Bible.

Coming across as ecumenical or unifying in this case is just showing weakness in my mind. And for me to state the truth doesn’t mean I have to be uncharitable. I can be very friendly and respectful to those that disagree with me, but they will have no doubt where I and the truth stand. I owe them that. When they attack a particular Catholic belief I simply ask, “if you don’t mind me asking, what Bible are you using when you quote it?” Most state, “what do you mean…THE Bible”. It allows me to have a discussion regarding the Word of God and which one is the real Bible rather than playing the “my interpretation is better than yours” game. This is not possible if I give in to the truth about the 73 book Bible.

Believe me, my family and friends think I’m pretty intense about this kind of stuff to say the least. I say that because I don’t want you to think I’m some sort of psycho!! There is a (warped!?) method to my madness!! Haha!

Again, I believe iron sharpens iron so thank you for this exchange. I’m benefiting greatly from it, Thanks!

-Ernie-

 

[Ernie07]

[GOOGLE SEARCH]

Quote:
How many books in Bible King James?
There are 80 books in the King James Bible—39 in the Old Testament, 14 in the Apocrypha, and 27 in the New Testament. Most modern editions omit the Apocrypha; in those editions the number of books totals 66

The other issue as it relates to THIS FORUM is the need to stay on topic; so the OPQ has to present the opportunity. In my years here, I don’t recall ever being involved in this 66 book discussion, so I’ll START a new THREAD and see where it leads

GBY

Sorry Patrick, but I’m not sure what you mean. I don’t even know what OPQ is! Are you saying that the thread I started should be in a different thread? If so, I’m totally cool with that if it would generate more discussion on the topic. Did I state a “66 book” Bible incorrectly? Thanks.

-Ernie-

 

[Ernie07]

Sorry Patrick, but I’m not sure what you mean. I don’t even know what OPQ is! Are you saying that the thread I started should be in a different thread? If so, I’m totally cool with that if it would generate more discussion on the topic. Did I state a “66 book” Bible incorrectly? Thanks.

-Ernie-

The more I think about this the more I realize that maybe I’m making an over generalization that could have caused some confusion. My reference to a 66 book Bible just means those Bibles that do not recognize the 7 additional books as inspired. I just wanted to clarify. Thanks.

-Ernie-

 

[po18guy]

The more I think about this the more I realize that maybe I’m making an over generalization that could have caused some confusion. My reference to a 66 book Bible just means those Bibles that do not recognize the 7 additional books as inspired. I just wanted to clarify. Thanks.

-Ernie-

I sometimes phrase it as those who allow themselves to be bound by the two defining opinions (doctrines) of Martin Luther (bible alone and 66 books), but who reject Luther regarding his other doctrines. In other words, Lutherans who are not Lutheran.
However, hard-core bible Christians will not be persuaded that they are wrong - not by anyone or anything on this earth. Man’s ego is an extremely powerful force, and the spirit of division well knows this. Some even reject the reformers since they were originally Catholic. And no, that makes no sense at all - except to them. Since arguments cannot be won, it is perhaps best to lay out why you believe in the Catholic Church and leave it at that - in accord with 1 Peter 3:15.

 

[PJM]

Inspiring stuff Patrick!! Thank you for your insights and thoughts!! I’m just not too confident I can do the charity part of fighting the good fight!!! Haha!

-Ernie-

Thanks and PRAY MUCH as will I

Patrick

 

[PJM]

Hi Deacon,

I don’t want to sound like I’m up on my high horse (which I’m on frequently by the way!!), but 99.5% is not good enough. Jesus said, “be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect”. Perfect to me is 100%. With all due respect we can’t condone anything less than 100% and now I know why you’re OK with Alpha. We just have a fundamentally different view of things.

99.5% holiness doesn’t get us into heaven, only being 100% purified will do. And to me, that’s what we must strive for while here on earth. We can’t do it, but that’s OK. I’ve said it before on a different thread that I’m actually looking forward to purgatory (now don’t get me wrong if the Lord allows me to bypass then I will!!). To me, I deserve purgatory whatever it is. I’m looking forward to being purified 100% as anything less doesn’t cut it.

I’m babbling again, but 100% truth has become so darn important to me that I fight it when I don’t see it. And from an evangelization standpoint if we preach anything less than that I think we do a disservice to many. And from an apologetics standpoint as soon as we relinquish our hold on the truth it becomes harder to change hearts.

Just my opinion. Thanks for candidly sharing your thoughts.

-Ernie-

I ABSOLUTELY AGREE ERNIE!

 

[PJM]

Sorry Patrick, but I’m not sure what you mean. I don’t even know what OPQ is! Are you saying that the thread I started should be in a different thread? If so, I’m totally cool with that if it would generate more discussion on the topic. Did I state a “66 book” Bible incorrectly? Thanks.

-Ernie-

“OPQ” = Original Poster Question

I don’t remember [SORRY]

GBY [God Bless you]

Patrick

 

[PJM]

Deacon, are you a Catholic?

Your post seen to with consistency attack our defense of the RCC:shrug: So ARE the other 7 books, so your point is?

It is NOT so much [even though the differences are of critical importance if one desires to attain heaven], what the bible SAYS, as their being blocked from RIGHT understanding of what the Bible MEANS, by yh Holy Spirit, that have led to the multiplicity of Protestant churches; EACH with its OWN interpretation.

2Peter 1: 19-21
And we have the more firm prophetical word: whereunto you do well to attend, as to a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: [20]** Understanding this first, that NO prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation. [21] For prophecy came not by the will of man at any time: but the holy men of God spoke, inspired by the Holy Ghos**t.

**
[Douay bible explanation]
[20] No prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation: This shews plainly that the scriptures are not to be expounded by any one’s private judgment or private spirit, because every part of the holy scriptures were written by men inspired by the Holy Ghost, and declared as such by the Church; therefore they are not to be interpreted but by the Spirit of God, which he hath left, and promised to remain with his Church to guide her in all truth to the end of the world. Some may tell us, that many of our divines interpret the scriptures: they may do so, but they do it always with a submission to the judgment of the Church, and not otherwise."**

“Whenever something is good it does not depend on us getting our way, but on God getting His way, and whether we do God’s Will depends on us [humbly] loving God. Moreover to love God we must [actually] know God, [not just know OF God].” Bread of Life booklet January 9, 2016”[Mt 7:21]

2nd. Peter 3: 14-18
“Therefore, beloved, since you wait for these, be zealous to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace. And count the forbearance of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, beware lest you be carried away with the error of lawless men and lose your own stability. But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen”

Job.17: 4 “Since thou hast closed their minds to understanding, therefore thou wilt not let them triumph.

God Bless you and Thank you for your ministry

Patrick

 

[Ernie07]

I sometimes phrase it as those who allow themselves to be bound by the two defining opinions (doctrines) of Martin Luther (bible alone and 66 books), but who reject Luther regarding his other doctrines. In other words, Lutherans who are not Lutheran.
However, hard-core bible Christians will not be persuaded that they are wrong - not by anyone or anything on this earth. Man’s ego is an extremely powerful force, and the spirit of division well knows this. Some even reject the reformers since they were originally Catholic. And no, that makes no sense at all - except to them. Since arguments cannot be won, it is perhaps best to lay out why you believe in the Catholic Church and leave it at that - in accord with 1 Peter 3:15.

Good advice. Thanks. Just curious…have you ever spoke to a “66 book Christian” who understood the history behind the Bible? It’s been my experience that they don’t know, but I’m probably not talking to deeply educated Protestants. Just wondering if you’ve spoken to anyone that does understand Bible history and how they justify their book as authentic. Thanks.

-Ernie-

 

[po18guy]

Good advice. Thanks. Just curious…have you ever spoke to a “66 book Christian” who understood the history behind the Bible? It’s been my experience that they don’t know, but I’m probably not talking to deeply educated Protestants. Just wondering if you’ve spoken to anyone that does understand Bible history and how they justify their book as authentic. Thanks.

-Ernie-

I have mentioned this to the local Jehovah’s witnesses, who emphatically do not consider themselves “protestant” - that they adhere to the two most distinctive doctrines of the reformation. Blank stares, mostly.

Protestantism is interested in history, but only so far back, and only in those aspects which seem to support the reformation. They are separatists, and to be separated demands that one justify that separation, both to self and others. Thus, they are forced to cherry-pick bits and pieces of history along with bits and pieces of their 91% bible (66/73rds).

Since the reformation was and is ego-driven, it is really tough to make any points, unless that particular soul is already seeking or questioning. This is the source of much frustration in apologetics. Have a copy of Patrick Madrid’s book Search and Rescue? Lots of good info there.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

Its Lent, 40 days of penance in the imitation of Jesus Christ during His 40 days in the wilderness.

To set the scene…
Jesus is fasting. Forty long days and forty long nights. And Jesus was hungry.
The devil rocks up and tempts Jesus to eat and reveal Himself. The devil says if you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.

Jesus replies
It is written: ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’"

So more books = more words = a very good thing.

 

[Ernie07]

I have mentioned this to the local Jehovah’s witnesses, who emphatically do not consider themselves “protestant” - that they adhere to the two most distinctive doctrines of the reformation. Blank stares, mostly.

Protestantism is interested in history, but only so far back, and only in those aspects which seem to support the reformation. They are separatists, and to be separated demands that one justify that separation, both to self and others. Thus, they are forced to cherry-pick bits and pieces of history along with bits and pieces of their 91% bible (66/73rds).

Since the reformation was and is ego-driven, it is really tough to make any points, unless that particular soul is already seeking or questioning. This is the source of much frustration in apologetics. Have a copy of Patrick Madrid’s book Search and Rescue? Lots of good info there.

Thanks for your post. I found your term “separatist” very interesting. I wonder if they even realize this and what that really means when it comes to the promise Jesus made in Mt 16:18. You’ve given me something more to think about. I’ll also pick up Patrick Madrid’s book. Thanks again.

-Ernie-

 

[AmbroseSJ]

However, the overriding point is that “Scripture” is the Word of God, not of Paul. Therefore the word Scripture applies to our understanding of the bible as truly as it did to Paul and his congregations, even though the technical definition of Scripture has changed in the meantime.

It is all well and good to understand the literal meaning in the mind of the writer in helping us to understand Sacred Scripture. But to stop there would be a mistake. In fact that is often the mistake of the historical-critical method, which tries to understand Sacred Scripture as a dead archeological artifact.

 

[AmbroseSJ]

Speaking of those 7 books, and their importance, I found this article helpful.

 

[Ernie07]

Speaking of those 7 books, and their importance, I found this article helpful.

Man, what a great article! The defense of our 73 book Bible in response to 5 myths…awesome! Thank you for providing that link, but I wish you would have told me about it a few months ago so that I wouldn’t have had to do the many hours of research I did on this topic!! LOL!

It’s this type of information that makes me a firm believer that when we defend or promote our Catholic faith we must hit this topic extremely hard and when anyone protests keep hitting it harder…all in a respectful, charitable way. Don’t we owe it to any 66 book Bible believing Christian to inform them that their very belief system is based on, at a minimum, an incomplete Bible? If we fight hard against their questions regarding the Eucharist, salvation, Mary doctrines, infant baptism, and others shouldn’t we fight even harder for what these questions are based on?

There my babbling surfaces yet again!! Anyway, thank you for providing the article. Excellent information for anyone who wants to have greater confidence in their Catholic faith and to defend against those that may question it.

-Ernie-

 

[po18guy]

Well, we do have to “contend for the faith” (Jude 1:3) However, 1 Peter 3:15 always applies. I do this on YouTube simply for the sake of souls being lured away by simplistic, erroneous theology. And, to correct the many distortions and lies being bandied about. But, I have learned (learning) to make a plain exposition of the faith rather than arguing. I’m tired of arguing - especially in a forum where trolls set the rules. I let those with open hearts decide - referring them here to Catholic Answers.

 

[Ernie07]

Everybody has a different way of evangelizing and I’ve found it very effective to punch anyone who doesn’t agree with me…just kidding! Geez, of course I dialog. Sometimes I post on this site as if you all know me…“fight” to me in this case is just boldly and strongly defending and promoting the Catholic faith via a dialog. But, don’t get me wrong, I have strong opinions, which I arrogantly believe to be 100% true, so I’m pretty passionate when talking about my faith. I’ll “fight” anyone that challenges the Catholic Church. Doing it charitably is my goal.

Over the course of years I’ve had debates with non-Catholic Christians and I’ve just learned a few things…and one key thing is that when you get into a “my interpretation is better than yours” type debate (which is what ALWAYS happens) you’re in for a long, usually very frustrating conversation (without throwing punches hopefully!).

The whole point I’m trying to make (high horse alert!) is that we should defend and promote our faith out of love…and people I love I’m brutally, yet charitably, honest with. Why sugarcoat or dance around the fact that they’re using, at a minimum, an incomplete Bible (and actually the wrong Bible)? We should have righteous anger that they have been duped to have their entire belief system based on an incorrect Bible.

You bet, it’s important that I win! But maybe not how you might think of it. If I “win” that means that I have been blessed to have played a role in converting someone to or helping someone be a devout Catholic. What a blessing for everyone! I’m not satisfied with someone being a Christian as I want them ultimately to become a CATHOLIC Christian!

And just so you don’t think I’m some sort of nut, my wife gave me some great advice one day. There was a day some years ago that I taught a Confirmation Class of 8th graders. I was on fire and preaching like a mad man about Jesus’ love for them and what He did for them…I was awesome…and then a student raised his hand. I thought to myself, “yes, I’m getting through to these kids!!!”. I pointed to him to ask his deeply spiritual question and he proceeded to ask, “Mr. Ernie when is snack break?”. I can laugh about it now, but I was crushed and when I got home I told my wife that I seriously wanted to just quit right there. I’ll never forget what she told me, “what makes you think the Holy Spirit wants you to plant the seed, water the seed, and see it grow? Maybe the Holy Spirit just wants you to plant the seed…and let the Holy Spirit do the rest.” Thank God for my wife!! It changed me forever…when I “fight” I fight letting the Lord use me as He sees fit…to plant, to water, or to see it grow!!

-Ernie-

 

[Ernie07]

Well, we do have to “contend for the faith” (Jude 1:3) However, 1 Peter 3:15 always applies. I do this on YouTube simply for the sake of souls being lured away by simplistic, erroneous theology. And, to correct the many distortions and lies being bandied about. But, I have learned (learning) to make a plain exposition of the faith rather than arguing. I’m tired of arguing - especially in a forum where trolls set the rules. I let those with open hearts decide - referring them here to Catholic Answers.

I should take up your advice about arguing!! I’ve been told I have tremendous endurance when it comes to dialoging about my faith!! Haha! And I want to commend you for the courage to put your faith out for all to see on Youtube! I’ve done the same thing and it’s not an easy thing to do, And referring them to Catholic Answers sounds like an excellent thing to do!! God Bless!

-Ernie-

 

[po18guy]

I should take up your advice about arguing!! I’ve been told I have tremendous endurance when it comes to dialoging about my faith!! Haha! And I want to commend you for the courage to put your faith out for all to see on Youtube! I’ve done the same thing and it’s not an easy thing to do, And referring them to Catholic Answers sounds like an excellent thing to do!! God Bless!

-Ernie-

Too kind! Dr. David Anders illuminated me as to why there are so many bible Christian trolls - Luther placed all importance on belief alone - one’s behavior did not really matter. Thus, you can curse, belittle, lie about and otherwise act un-Christian, as long as you “believe” in Christ. Nonsense, of course.

On YouTube, I have now chosen to interact with other Catholics only. That way, we place the faith before all, but without arguing.