E
- Status
B
BernadetteM
Guest
This is what they call the first wave coming into the Church. I believe in the beginning there will be around 20 priests.
I read a website where some woman who I suppose holds some high rank in the CoE state that "well we have had 14 priests from the Catholic Church come over to the CoE since 2005. It was like there is a competition between the CoE and the Catholic Church.
I don’t know why any Catholic priest would want to join the CoE, with all the problems they are having regarding women Bishops and now saying they might accept anyone who isn’t baptized to receive communion. My guess is the priests want to get married or for other personal reasons. If they don’t accept the Catholic faith then fine, don’t let the door hit them on the way out.
She also said a million CoE folks attend services, I wonder if that can be verifed, from what I have read England is very secular, much more so than the US.
We will get the cream of the crop in priests and who knows what they will get.
Sorry if this sounds uncharitable, but reading one of the English Catholic blogs tells one what type of people post and say terrible things about Catholics and the Church.
Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary
Bernadette
I read a website where some woman who I suppose holds some high rank in the CoE state that "well we have had 14 priests from the Catholic Church come over to the CoE since 2005. It was like there is a competition between the CoE and the Catholic Church.
I don’t know why any Catholic priest would want to join the CoE, with all the problems they are having regarding women Bishops and now saying they might accept anyone who isn’t baptized to receive communion. My guess is the priests want to get married or for other personal reasons. If they don’t accept the Catholic faith then fine, don’t let the door hit them on the way out.
She also said a million CoE folks attend services, I wonder if that can be verifed, from what I have read England is very secular, much more so than the US.
We will get the cream of the crop in priests and who knows what they will get.
Sorry if this sounds uncharitable, but reading one of the English Catholic blogs tells one what type of people post and say terrible things about Catholics and the Church.
Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary
Bernadette
G
gamewell45
Guest
Bernadette, to be honest it does reek of being uncharitable; just because a handful of people on blogs may say terrible things about Catholics and the church, I can assure you that it does not represent the thinking of a majority of us non-Catholics in the world.
To those Anglicans who are about to enter ordinariate, I wish them all the best and peace in their new journey and to those Catholic Priests who are coming over to the CoE, I welcome you with open arms.
O
OrdinaryMelkite
Guest
Good Show. God is changing Hearts and minds towards the Truth every Day. 
Also, folks know a sinking ship when they see it.
Also, folks know a sinking ship when they see it.
G
gamewell45
Guest
Not very charitable on your part.Also, folks know a sinking ship when they see it.
N
nhylan
Guest
So .0008% of all Anglicans is people jumping from a sinking ship? I will never understand the general ill will that many Catholic members of this forum have towards Anglicanism. This thread is just par for the course. How about you keep comments to how great it is to have some converts not how badly off the Anglican Communion is? People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.
G
gamewell45
Guest
M
masuwerte
Guest
Ditto.
M
masuwerte
Guest
I hear ya. In my experiences apart from the internet, Catholics and Episcopalians usually get along pretty well, with a few notable exceptions. But here, mentioning the word “Episcopal” is like waving a red cape in front of a bull.
C
ChristIsTheWay
Guest
That figure sounds about right. Here is an article in the Guardian: guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/03/church-england-attendance-falls
Wikipedia also cites a secular article that allegedly discusses the percentage of the population that attends regularly. A very rough guess on my part seems to think that the one million number is more or less accurate.
Now, I am not trying to insult anyone here but if the trends in declining membership continue, the CoE could be nearly devoid of regular parishioners by the end of the 21st century. Of course, that is a big “if,” even for secular England.
B
bigquests
Guest
They–the 600-are entering the ordinariate of OL Walsingham, which encompasses all of the UK and Wales. The laity will enter on Easter; the bishops, who may be ordained priests, on Pentecost. Many of the bishops are older, two retired.
I think that there is going to be a lot of difficulty for the priests/bishops, anywhere they enter, both in the UK and the US. There are too many of them, even for a handful. For example, 600 converts in the UK makes one parish with two priests-easily–it wouldn’t require more. Some of the priest/bishop converts who become RC priests will get lucky and get ordinariate parishes, when and if they form, none yet, I understand–all at much lower pay and pensions than what they used to get. The rest will have to perform as regular RC priests in regular large understaffed RC dioceses, paid much less, with parishioners very different from those in the usual Anglican churches, at least in the US.
Irrespective of how many convert among the laity, I predict that the number of priests/bishops who end up actually converting will be much smaller.
I think that there is going to be a lot of difficulty for the priests/bishops, anywhere they enter, both in the UK and the US. There are too many of them, even for a handful. For example, 600 converts in the UK makes one parish with two priests-easily–it wouldn’t require more. Some of the priest/bishop converts who become RC priests will get lucky and get ordinariate parishes, when and if they form, none yet, I understand–all at much lower pay and pensions than what they used to get. The rest will have to perform as regular RC priests in regular large understaffed RC dioceses, paid much less, with parishioners very different from those in the usual Anglican churches, at least in the US.
Irrespective of how many convert among the laity, I predict that the number of priests/bishops who end up actually converting will be much smaller.
M
MarkBrown
Guest
bigquests,
just a point of order to clear up some errors.
The CoE Bishops have already been ordained priests. Fr. Keith Newton is the Ordinary.
Those entering the Ordinariate now are to be confirmed Easter. The priests will be ordained Deacon then. By Pentecost they will be ordained Priests in the Catholic Church.
This is in the UK. No Ordinariate has been established yet in the other parts of the world.
As to pay. It is expected for the priest to pull double and even triple duty as a Rector, school or hospital chaplain etc. The Holy Father has also allowed for secular work until such time as the parish is big enough to support a priest. That may be needed for some. But I doubt it as many Catholic Bishops are waiting for these priests to be offered to them for duties with in the “latin” Diocese. Remember there is a critical shortage of priests in the church.
There is also a misunderstanding about just how much an Anglican priest is paid. I know a very few who make a “good” living. Most of those coming into the Church are use to supporting a family on a “priests” salary, working a second job and the wife working. And yes they are very accessible to the parish. Another misunderstanding that married priests are not as available. Yes I have missed family events. So do doctors. I have been called out at night for Unction or even to just sit and pray with a family as the police search for a missing child. Clergy wives and children understand why husband and daddy has to be away. Just like wives and children of other men understand when their work takes them away from the family.
As to the priest converting. The Ordinariate will be clergy heavy. Many Anglo-Catholic priest do not see catholicism in the Anglicanism. They see outward signs in the liturgy, candles etc. Not in the theology. They are eager for the Ordinariate. Just this week, Bishop Iker of Fort Worth, an ACNA Diocese, lost two senior priests (canons) to the Ordinariate. Of the priests I know converting. They are converting to the Church Christ founded. They will convert even if they never serve as a priest again. They are not making this decision lighthearted. They know the consequences of their actions and the potential consequences.
Actually, the number of priests converting seems to be growing. At least the numbers interested in the Ordinariate. If the meetings inthe US are any indication. Go to Anglican blogs, routinely there are stories of Anglican Clergy leaving for the Ordinariate/Catholic Church. Last Nov 2010, San Antonio was the site of a meeting of Anglican Clergy who are converting. About 100 if I remember correctly. Recently Kansas, another 50 or so. I think the parish/misson number is now close to 80 in North America.
I would not worry about the numbers. The Holy Spirit will give the increase.
Mark
just a point of order to clear up some errors.
The CoE Bishops have already been ordained priests. Fr. Keith Newton is the Ordinary.
Those entering the Ordinariate now are to be confirmed Easter. The priests will be ordained Deacon then. By Pentecost they will be ordained Priests in the Catholic Church.
This is in the UK. No Ordinariate has been established yet in the other parts of the world.
As to pay. It is expected for the priest to pull double and even triple duty as a Rector, school or hospital chaplain etc. The Holy Father has also allowed for secular work until such time as the parish is big enough to support a priest. That may be needed for some. But I doubt it as many Catholic Bishops are waiting for these priests to be offered to them for duties with in the “latin” Diocese. Remember there is a critical shortage of priests in the church.
There is also a misunderstanding about just how much an Anglican priest is paid. I know a very few who make a “good” living. Most of those coming into the Church are use to supporting a family on a “priests” salary, working a second job and the wife working. And yes they are very accessible to the parish. Another misunderstanding that married priests are not as available. Yes I have missed family events. So do doctors. I have been called out at night for Unction or even to just sit and pray with a family as the police search for a missing child. Clergy wives and children understand why husband and daddy has to be away. Just like wives and children of other men understand when their work takes them away from the family.
As to the priest converting. The Ordinariate will be clergy heavy. Many Anglo-Catholic priest do not see catholicism in the Anglicanism. They see outward signs in the liturgy, candles etc. Not in the theology. They are eager for the Ordinariate. Just this week, Bishop Iker of Fort Worth, an ACNA Diocese, lost two senior priests (canons) to the Ordinariate. Of the priests I know converting. They are converting to the Church Christ founded. They will convert even if they never serve as a priest again. They are not making this decision lighthearted. They know the consequences of their actions and the potential consequences.
Actually, the number of priests converting seems to be growing. At least the numbers interested in the Ordinariate. If the meetings inthe US are any indication. Go to Anglican blogs, routinely there are stories of Anglican Clergy leaving for the Ordinariate/Catholic Church. Last Nov 2010, San Antonio was the site of a meeting of Anglican Clergy who are converting. About 100 if I remember correctly. Recently Kansas, another 50 or so. I think the parish/misson number is now close to 80 in North America.
I would not worry about the numbers. The Holy Spirit will give the increase.
Mark
J
JohnnyReb
Guest
Exactly. I really think it has alot to do with the circumstances of the Anglicans original departure from Rome. Also, Anglicans and Catholics share so much in common. Sometimes, the pain of division is felt more in dealing with people so close to you.
C
CrazyRachel
Guest
I have no ill feelings towards Anglicanism. My husband in fact is a proud Anglican. But I can understand - not necessarily agree with, but understand why Catholics, who make posts on a Catholic forum, get techty about Anglicanism for many reasons, i.e. Henry VIII, the reformation and all the history that goes along with it in England. I know its all in the past and makes no difference anymore but when you come to a Catholic forum you shouldnt be surprised to find alot of people who will disagree even with the comment I’ve just made and think that actually its not just in the past and actually it does still make a difference today and to be honnest they may be right and I may be wrong because Catholics in the UK are treated like dirt - not by anglicans, I hasten to add.
C
CrazyRachel
Guest
I aplogize on the behalf of anyone who has been mean to you on this forum for being Episcopal. I dont like being treated meanly when ever I mention I happen to be Catholic (not on this forum obviously, but elsewhere in day to day life) so I know its a rubbish feeling when that happens. I think here many people are just defensive because its probably one of the few places they can come to talk about their Catholic faith without fear of being verbaly bashed, and unfortunately they still get verbally bashed by non-Catholics (mainly non-Christians, but not by all the non-Christians) who come here simply to verbally bash people because it is the internet and they dont have to suffer any consequences for their choice of words. But I understand you’ve never done that and its unfair that you’ve been treated as if you have. :hug3:
B
bigquests
Guest
I know that the bishops were undergoing processes towards the priesthood. Others will, too. How many will get ordinariates is uncertain, but it will be relatively few. Many will be recruited into latin rite dioceses. There they will have a very different experience than they have had as Anglican clergymen. In the UK, RC clergy are paid much less than the Anglican clergy. This will involve men with families to support.
Those Anglican priests who convert but don’t become priests, will have the current job market to face. They are men who are, for the most part, middle-aged. Those who become RC priests in latin rite dioceses in the US will become very busy in very large parishes, also having a very different experience than in their former Episcopal parishes.
. Members of the ACNA are more than halfway to Rome, so it isn’t surprising that a few converted. Blogs are also notoriously unreliable as a vehicle for estimating numbers. Kansas is a very conservative state-not surprising there are 50 priests talking about the ordinariate there.
Most Anglican priests that convert and become RC priests in the US, aren’t going to be anywhere an ordinariate, except possibly to attend mass there.
Anyone converting who has second thoughts will probably be welcomed back into the Anglican Communion, but probably not into the priesthood. The AC has plenty of priests who are happy there.
The CAF is inclined to triumphalism. But the Catholic Church has plenty of its own problems. The Philadelphia archdiocese, the fifth largest in the US, is experiencing the action of the Holy Spirit right now, in the person of its cardinal. Twenty-one priests have been suspended from active ministry, pending investigation for abuse charges. This in a diocese which has closed forty schools in recent years.
B
BernadetteM
Guest
The Ordinariate will cover the whole US, not some small area, they are like dioceses. All priests who enter the Ordinariate may be used within a local diocese if they don’t have a parish and even cover for a Latin Rite parish if the priest for some reason is unavailable, however they will belong to the Ordinariate not the local diocese. The Ordinary will be more or less on par with the diocesen Bishop. He will deal directly with the CDF and the Holy Father, except in local matters that affect the whole Church. If the Ordinary is not married they can become a Bishop.
The ACNA is a group of Continuing Anglicans who have already ordained women priests. They were never considered to be interested in the Ordinariate. Since the US is so large, if there is a need, there could be more than one Ordinary and I believe more than one Ordinariate. Time will tell. This is a new structure within the Church and many issues are still being worked out. As Catholics we should accept that the Holy Father is being led by the Holy Spirit in this gracious offer. He is a very courageous leader and I respect him greatly for many of the problems he is dealing with in the Church.
All the priests who are entering the Ordinariate are willing to work with the local Bishop, and of course the Ordinary will do so with mutual respect.
As far as numbers go, no one knows how many priests and laity will enter. Also there is the fact that the Anglican Use Parishes which are Catholic have attracted many Latin Rite Catholics and are members of these parishes. In England it appears that more and more laity and priests are joining.
The US is much larger and Anglicans here are not part of a state church, so there has been little information out there for Anglicans who may wish to join and for Catholics to even know that the Ordinariate exists.
It is very sad that most of the anger towards the Ordinariate and those becoming Catholic is coming from their former brothers and sisters in the Anglican Communion/TEC. It can be very vicious and also from some Catholics. They are getting it from both sides. What a shame that those who claim to be Christian react like this. People convert all the time from one church to another and little is said.
Satan has attacked these Anglicans from the very beginning, just as he is attacking the Catholic Church. If one doesn’t want to be informed and if given an opportunity, to attend an Anglican Use parish then they have no call to make statements that are misinformed. There is much turmoil in the Church as it is today and as Catholics we should welcome our new brothers and sisters who will stand by us in upholding the Catholic Faith.
The Apostolic Constitution and Norms are online for everyone to read and should clarify what the Ordinariate is and the rules.
I wonder how many Catholics would sacrifice what many of these priests are to enter the Church.
There are plenty of young priests coming in also. Some have 5 and 6 small children, one whom I know just had his first baby and is very young and very convicted that there is only one True Church.
Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary
Bernadette
B
BrushedByAngels
Guest
I am patiently waiting for an Anglican Use parish to come to my area. I have attended mass at a Anglican Catholic Church (high church very conservative) and I really liked it.
G
gurneyhalleck1
Guest
Have you heard that one is coming and do you have any reason to think one will? I ask that respectfully. The reason I ask is because there is an Anglican parish in my town but they have NO DESIRE to join the ordinariates, just stay put. And we have a huge, thriving Catholic community. I don’t think an ordinariate would come here ever, period. I wish one would!!!
B
BrushedByAngels
Guest
No, but someone gave me a website to stay informed. The nearest Anglican Use parish is 3 hrs away from my home.
- Status