9 pregnancies in 10 years; 7 c-sections, considering tubal ligation

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Paul71 said:
Yes, it takes two, which is why I questioned the assumption that it was one of those two people who was doing the insisting. This is none of our business, but I just felt like the husband maybe was being blamed for something unfairly.
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Unfortunately many threads like this get derailed when folks misread the OP and then use that misunderstanding to fill in whatever blanks. They want to assign actions or behaviors to people that just don’t exist.

@MamaBurtonof9 - I have no real advice other than the good advice offered earlier up-thread. I will pray you and your family are able to come to a resolution in this situation.
 
CD45 said:
To the OP—You might want to broaden your circle of inquiry on what you should do. A recent Pew survey showed that only 8 percent of regular church attending Catholics believe birth control is a sin. 89 per cent do not.
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The constant teaching of the Catholic Church on this topic is clear, regardless of whether the teaching is accepted by 0% or 100% of Catholics, or anywhere in between. The statistics in your post call to mind 2 Timothy 4:3-4:

“For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own likings, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander into myths.”
 
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I wouldn’t put this down to
‘itching ears’ or consider it a reasonable discussion on ‘sound doctrine’. The OP’s health has already been compromised, and, with her desire to keep her family intact and holy, it’s not unreasonable to consider birth control! She’ll never be as healthy as many women her age, can you blame her for wanting some comfort in which to raise the ten kids she already has/will soon have, a reasonable assurance that she won’t get sick, not be able to do the chores her kids can’t/don’t want to do?
OP, I can’t advise you on what you should do. Can just try and validate the feelings you’re having now.
Have any dispensations been granted, allowing tubal ligation in a case like hers? Not a rhetorical, just wondering. I know that Pope Benedict allowed for condoms for disease protection.
 
MamaBurtonof9,
You should read Pope Pius XII Address to Midwives. He does address situations like yours (n. 40 - 45).
http://www.catholicplanet.com/TSM/Address-To-Midwives-Pius-XII.htm
I will have to point out a few things related to doctrine that might be difficult for you to hear. It is gravely immoral to obtain direct sterilization, such as the tubal ligation you discussed. We cannot justify grave sin by saying God is forgiving, or by reference to a conscience that knows the act is gravely immoral, or by calling the sin a type of trust to “leave it in God’s hands”. And even though this sin might seem best from the point of view of us fallen sinners, we know by faith it is not.

You already know that marital relations is quite safe at one time in the cycle. Yet you reject that option, preferring mortal sin instead? And the reason is that you don’t desire sex as much then. That is not a correct interpretation of God’s will, very clearly, it is not. It is not a valid argument, to say that God gives you this desire for sex, therefore you should go so far as to sin mortally to obtain not only marital relations when it is safe, but whenever you most desire sex. That is putting the desire for sex above the moral law. So, it is not a correct interpretation of God’s will to say that if you have desire for sex, and have it at certain times, that God must want you to have sex at that time, even if you have to choose direct sterilization to reach that goal.

Christians are called to lives of self-denial and self-sacrifice. Sometimes, married couples are called to abstain from sex indefinitely. As Pope Pius XII teaches, this abstention is not impossible, though it is difficult.
 
Legend said:
I wouldn’t put this down to

‘itching ears’ or consider it a reasonable discussion on ‘sound doctrine’. The OP’s health has already been compromised,
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With my quote of St. Paul’s second letter to Timothy, I wasn’t referring to the original poster, but rather to the statistic presented by CD45, that 89% of Catholics reject Catholic doctrine on contraception.
 
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Just a thought-- homeschooling a 17 year old is not arduous. Maybe the MIL and the 17 year old girl could help out with the children, if they don’t live too far. Maybe they just haven’t thought of it, or assumed things were going fine.

Maybe you could ask if they would take several of the children two or three times a week.
Please encourage the three oldest to make their beds, set the table, and pick up their toys. Mom shouldn’t have to do all the work.
 
Unfortunately my MIL and SIL live about 30 min away, and they have a small house. So it’s not convenient for them to either come watch them at our house or take them to their house. They come to our house once a month so hubby and I can go out for date night.
The 3 oldest have to clean their rooms, bring their laundry down, take it back up, and put it away - weekly. They also earn money for taking out the trash and emptying the dishwasher. They also have to help clean up the play room/library/living room every Saturday and then earn money if they take the extra step to vacuum. Most of the time they choose not to vacuum. If I have to ask them too many times to do the dishwasher or garbages, they still have to do them, they just don’t earn money. The 3 and 4 yr old help pick up toys and are working towards helping with their laundry.
 
MamaBurtonof9 said:
Unfortunately my MIL and SIL live about 30 min away, and they have a small house. So it’s not convenient for them to either come watch them at our house or take them to their house. They come to our house once a month so hubby and I can go out for date night.
The 3 oldest have to clean their rooms, bring their laundry down, take it back up, and put it away - weekly. They also earn money for taking out the trash and emptying the dishwasher. They also have to help clean up the play room/library/living room every Saturday and then earn money if they take the extra step to vacuum. Most of the time they choose not to vacuum. If I have to ask them too many times to do the dishwasher or garbages, they still have to do them, they just don’t earn money. The 3 and 4 yr old help pick up toys and are working towards helping with their laundry.
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OP, I’m hoping to catch your attention again.

Have you looked up any NaPro doctors in your area? My greatest concern for you is that you have put yourself in the care of a doctor who didn’t have this conversation with you half a decade ago.
 
We don’t have any NaPro doctors in our area. Which conversation are you talking about? I am on my 5th OB. The one that delivered #2-4 told me that I should be done after that one due to the increased risk of having more c-sections. I didn’t feel she was correct but I had NO idea that I would end up with 9 pregnancies and 7 c-sections in a matter of 10 years. Looking back I can say that yes, we probably should have spaced them better. I never thought in my wildest dreams I would have 7 children. But now all I can do is figure out how to keep my mental and physical health so I can take care of the ones I have.
 
MamaBurtonof9 said:
We don’t have any NaPro doctors in our area. Which conversation are you talking about? I am on my 5th OB. The one that delivered #2-4 told me that I should be done after that one due to the increased risk of having more c-sections. I didn’t feel she was correct but I had NO idea that I would end up with 9 pregnancies and 7 c-sections in a matter of 10 years. Looking back I can say that yes, we probably should have spaced them better. I never thought in my wildest dreams I would have 7 children. But now all I can do is figure out how to keep my mental and physical health so I can take care of the ones I have.
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Ahh, I see.

You need to work with a good doctor who can really help you and point you in the direction of both good medical care and good mental care. Even if you have to travel for a NaPro physican, I’d highly recommend doing it.

First, as they are open to life they are going to be much more equipped to help you emotionally deal with pregnancy issues. They know what you are going through.

Second, they are more likely to work with large families with young children. My first OB did not allow children in the waiting room or in any appointments–at all–for any reason. The NaPro doctor was so different. It wasn’t unusual to have a family of 5, 6, or 7 come in and have the older siblings–often under 10 themselves–sitting and helping out while the mother took the youngest ones into the appointment. Every one of the staff knew adn was kind to the children and loved on the moms. It was a refuge. And the moms of big families shared tips!

Third, they are also going to be able to point you in the direction of good Catholic help. It is very likely that they’d know of other Mom’s groups, or good psychiatrists, or even know of some teen girls looking to be mother’s helpers for a few dollars an afternoon.
 
Well, we have contacted the family life director of our diocese and are waiting for a response from him. I am a part of a ladies Catholic group and most have multiple children so friends are not a problem. But they are busy with their own lives/families so they can’t really help out. I have resources for mother’s helpers, but not the money to pay them. We have to figure out how to afford a new vehicle to transport our large family so no extra money for extra help.
 
You need someone who is available and has been where you are. People who are willing to give with nothing in return. I helped my friend with many kids as a young woman and she let me do laundry at her place. I could either sit around the laundrymat for 3 hours or cook her family dinner–the choice was clear. We were both lucky that her mom advocated for her and we met up. Beg for help if you need to.

You also need medical care with someone who isn’t just going to tell you to do a tubal…because tubals fail. The medical professional is telling you what appears to be the easy way out–but physically and psychologically it’s going to have an impact. You deserve a doctor who is prepared to discuss that with you.

As far as vehicles–check rental places that are selling off their stock. You may have good luck.
 
As far as vehicles go, maybe you can check into some program that provides free or low cost vehicles. They do exist. Just do a website search for car for working families and you’ll see places you can check.
 
These programs took a BIG hit after the “Cash For Clunkers” program. That program wiped out a whole “generation” of working, used cars.

They do exist, but, to find one that supplies dependable, low mileage 12/15 passenger vans (with the legal car seat requirements, that is what this family will need) would take Divine Intervention!
 
Yes- I am not in anyway judging the OP… but I find it remarkable, that with so many small children, they find time for sex. My wife and I have one toddler and finding intimate time (and mood) is a huge struggle.
 
It sounds like you are doing a great job teaching life skills to your children. You inspire me to step up my efforts with my toddler grandson.
You can give yourself credit for such a great start for your kids.
 
Cash for Clunkers was a totally different kind of program - the idea was to trade in old cars for energy efficient cars. I am talking about things like this for example:

Home - Working Cars for Working Families

Working Cars for Working Families is fighting to ensure that families get a fair deal when buying and financing a car
www.workingcarsforworkingfamilies.org www.workingcarsforworkingfamilies.org

www.vehiclesforchange.org

Donate Car to Charity – Vehicles for Change Car Donation

Vehicles for Change is the best place to donate a car to charity. Get a tax deduction and help a family in need by donating your vehicle today.
www.vehiclesforchange.org www.vehiclesforchange.org

http://freecarsforyou.com
 
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