90 Minutes in Heaven / Heaven is Real

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I owend the book, 90 MINUTES IN HEAVEN, which is the story of a Baptist preacher who died for about 90 minutes and had a vision of heaven just outside the gates. Now, Baptists don’t believe in praying for the dead since they don’t believe in Purgatory, but another preacher on the road (both were coming from a convention for Baptist Preachers) came over and prayed for him, and after about an hour and a half, the first man “came back to life,” so to speak.

On the one hand, I don’t buy into a lot of NDEs as presented by the experiencers because they’re often way out there. My personal opinion is, while the situation was very real to the person experiencing it, after coming out of the experience, the experiencer is going to be driven by pre-conceptions, by his ideals and beliefs, by his misinterpretation of what he experienced.

On the other hand, I don’t disbelieve, either, because a lot of stuff in NDEs does resound with the Catholic teachings. Plenty of people have NDEs of Hell, where they come back realizing that there is an eternal punishment, and visions of Hell have turned people into believers. Sometimes their belief is a bit twisted, I think, but other times, it comes through clear like Catholic teachings and the Natrual Law.

The preacher who “died” for 90 minutes had a vision straight out of the Bible. HE doesn’t believe in NDEs much because they sound silly or make no sense, but he honestly believes that he experienced Heaven.

But he wasn’t Catholic.

We know that Catholics have NDEs. Father Steven Scheier had one that sent him to hell briefly, but Our Lady asked her Son to send him back to life and see if he wouldn’t shape up, and he did.

I guess what I’m wondering is if Catholics accept that a preacher from another denomination could have actually seen heaven.
 
Hi Tabitha,
Maybe you answered your own question…you said that you thought people who had near death experiences were only adding their own ideas, preconceptions, etc. to it, but that this one preacher’s NDE “came right out of the Bible.” Since he does read the Bible alot, maybe he was just “seeing” what he read about and expected.

On the other hand, my husband’s cousin’s heart stopped very briefly once (less than a minute) when she was in the hospital for her serious medical problems and she related to me what she experienced. She (Millie) said she saw a bright light, saw only the outlines of figures, but she “knew” who they were, they were friends and family members who were already deceased. She felt indescribable joy and love. She heard someone’s gentle laughter that she “knew” was Christ. (She is not a church-going person, was baptized Catholic and attended Catholic schools as a youth, but was by no means a saint as an adult!!) Anyway, her cousin Anne (long deceased) said to her, “You can’t stay, you have to go back.” When Millie protested and said she didn’t want to, Anne insisted, and said “You have to, for Judy.” Judy was Millie’s best friend. When Millie was revived, she says she never told anyone her experience because they would laugh it off or think she was nuts. A few years went by, and a tragic accident occurred whereby Judy’s son was killed. Obviously very upset, Judy wondered aloud to Millie, “Where is he? Is he alright?” Millie remembered her experience and was able to console and reassure her friend that he was in a very welcoming, joyful place.

For what it’s worth…
Arlene
 
One more thing.

Just because the guy wasn’t Catholic doesn’t mean he’s not going to heaven. I don’t know if you meant to imply that. As we all well know, Christ died for all of us, even atheists. (Boy are they going to be surprised!) My personal belief is, that is part of what Purgatory is, a place to view our lives, our sins, our ignorances, etc. suffer for what we did, said, caused to happen, and repent before we come before God.

The idea that all non-believers (whether you are a Protestant bashing Catholics as heretical, or Catholics thinking all non-Catholics as such) has always bothered me…who are we to judge? After having come out of a sect that thought “We have the truth and no one else does,” it was very refreshing to read that the Catholic Church pretty much leaves these matters up to God to decide.
 
I suspect that the majority of this tale was a fabrication possibly based in part on a the hallucinations of an oxygen starved brain.
 
severntofall said:
I suspect that the majority of this tale was a fabrication possibly based in part on a the hallucinations of an oxygen starved brain.
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Why do so many of these oxygen starved “hallucinations” involve an encounter with Jesus? Why not not pink rabbits?
 
cranster said:
Why do so many of these oxygen starved “hallucinations” involve an encounter with Jesus? Why not not pink rabbits?
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Your question implies that every mystical experience is imaginary and that Jesus never consoles or gives hope to a dying person. What sort of faith is that?
 
tonyrey said:
Your question implies that every mystical experience is imaginary and that Jesus never consoles or gives hope to a dying person. What sort of faith is that?
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My question implies exactly what I intended it to. So many NDE’s seem to involve an encounter with Christ, or hell, depending on the state of the persons soul when they have them. Granted not all of them do, but there are vast numbers that do. My point is this, if the brain is simply oxygen starved and they are hallucinating, then why don’t people just see pink bunnies, or anything else for that matter. People try discount the spiritual aspect of these so called NDE “hallucinations” and reduce them to nothing but a physiological process. If they are nothing but physiological processes then they should hallucinate with anything, and everything, but so many of them concern Jesus that to say they are only physiological processes entirely discounts the possibility that they are having an encounter with the Living God. To admit that would mean one would have to admit to the possibility that Jesus, and the spiritual realm are not only real, but that Jesus is indeed alive and God. The sum of physiological processes alone shouldn’t add up to an encounter with Jesus, they should add up to anything and everything but Jesus. The fact that so many of them do speaks to me of the reality of the spiritual realm, and the reality that Jesus is God, and stands as our judge. If I were a nonbeliever the fact that so many of these experiences involve Jesus would give me pause, and I would have to ask myself… why? That maybe it is all very real!

I also believe there are many who have an encounter with a deceptive spirit that poses as a spirit of light when they come back and get all new agey, where almost anything goes, all is peace and love… no one need fear death.

My faith isn’t anywhere near where it should be, but I’m working on it.
 
cranster said:
Why do so many of these oxygen starved “hallucinations” involve an encounter with Jesus? Why not not pink rabbits?
Click to expand...
The hallucinations are effected by our conscious and subconcious understanding of what is happening. They are based upon our assumptions of what we will experience upon our death, just as our dreams are effected by our real world concerns. Thenotion that the soul could enter heaven and then get sucked back into the body is kind of silly. Also, I suspect that most of these tales are embellished just a tad. I also suspect that a baptis minister might be prone to just make the entire experience up.Worth noting that Hindus when having NDEs see HIndu gods: near-death.com/hindu.html

and Muslims occasionally see Allah and Mohammed
books.google.com/books?id=G0R_MMqNxu4C&pg=PA154&lpg=PA154&dq=do+muslims+have+near+death+experiences%3F&source=bl&ots=bAcSZRsZDo&sig=Rz-LGXX6jpxnkZQkDmkTq5Oo6lI&hl=en&ei=JooLSsb7AqWxmAel74yFCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9

For some reason, of those who become clinically dead and then revived only 8 -12% experience NDEs. Why doesn’t everyone?
 
  1. Since you have the NDE website available, look up Pim von Lommel. He explains how non-functional the brain is and thus unable to hallucinate. Another good person to look up is Dr. Melvin Morse. He doesn’t belive in God or an afterlife, but believes in the reality of the NDE, and that it’s not the product of oxygen deprevation or random hallucination.
  2. The Baptist preacher was in way too much pain from recovering from his injuries over a period of years to be making anything up when he started talking to his family and friends, and he talked about it before he wrote the book.
  3. When did my question about Catholic interpretation of Baptist/non-Catholic Christian NDEs become a commentary on the reality or unreality of NDEs in general?
 
severntofall said:
Thenotion that the soul could enter heaven and then get sucked back into the body is kind of silly.
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For those of us who have encountered Jesus in our lives the notion isn’t silly at all, but since nde’s are not a part of the deposit of faith, in the end, they can be nothing more than speculation on both sides of the coin. Personally I find a lot of them very uplifting, but then I’m prone to weigh in on the side of belief because of my encounter with the living Christ. As to why all people don’t have nde’s, I guess we’ll have to ask God when we see Him on the other side.

I don’t want to derail the OP’s thread any further on this.
 
severntofall said:
The hallucinations are effected by our conscious and subconcious understanding of what is happening. They are based upon our assumptions of what we will experience upon our death, just as our dreams are effected by our real world concerns.
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Do you think all our experiences are based on our assumptions?
The notion that the soul could enter heaven and then get sucked back into the body is kind of silly.
Click to expand...
A glimpse of heaven is not the same as entering heaven.
Also, I suspect that most of these tales are embellished just a tad.
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“most” implies that some are not embellished.
Muslims occasionally see Allah and Mohammed.
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People obviously interpret their experiences in the the light of their beliefs. That does not mean their experiences are hallucinations.
For some reason, of those who become clinically dead and then revived only 8 -12% experience NDEs. Why doesn’t everyone?
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Why not? Why should everyone experience NDEs?
 
tabsie:

I doubt that anyone can see heaven without having obtained the credentials, ie: passed the test. So they may experience the outer perimeter or some sort of holy plane. I know there have been some interactions with beings between “heaven” and earth, but unless scripture is a lie, and this isn’t a Divine message, this meeting place must be the “lobby” so to speak.

I think I know the book you are speaking of. Did the preacher ask what religion is the best one? Was his answer to the effect that they were all good and the importance was to have a righteous life? This would be untrue. The correct answer would be the only Church that Jesus set up, the Catholic church. The best way to determine a hoax in this state is that the imposters cannot declare Jesus has the Son of God.

If it were me, I would ask the “angel”, whatever, to make a declaration in front of me that Jesus was the King, and the Son of God, and if he did, ask how he reconciles this with the religion of Buddhism.?

In fact, before a non-Catholic enters heaven, they are converted to Catholics by Jesus beforehand. So what does that say in itself.?

Andy
 
Andy -

I know the one you’re thinking of. That’s the story about Rev. Howard Storm, who was an atheist and briefly experienced Hell, then was rescued by Jesus. He later went from an atheist to a preacher for a Universalist type church, except I don’t think it was Universalist.

Just for the record, when Rev. Storm was asked later on about Buddhism and such, he said he didn’t know because that wasn’t what he meant, he was only asking which branch of Christianity was the right one, so he wouldn’t sound off on it.

But no, these are VERY different people.

The guy who wrote 90 MINUTES IN HEAVEN is Don Piper, and he was already a Baptist preacher before his experience. He doesn’t believe in traditional NDEs, and in his experience, everyone was singing praises to God and worshiping Jesus, and the images he had were of Biblical sorts. Piper acknowledged that he wasn’t in Heaven proper, but sort of on the outskirts, being embraced by the Christians he knew in life. This was very much not a blend of religions - he didn’t see anything remotely Buddhist, Hindu, etc. At the end of his book he also mentioned NDEs and that he didn’t really buy into them because he doubted very much that people who’d seen “Adam and Eve” were relaying anything the real pair might have said.

The thing is, Don Piper is a very conservative Christian who is anti-abortion, believes Christ is the one King and Only Son of God, and much the same that we Catholics believe, but he’s an OSAS type, too, so he’s not completely in line with the Church of Rome.

My thinking was, was he in a high stage of Purgatory? It wasn’t a sad place or anything, so it doesn’t seem like a lower stage of Purgatory, and I know that some of our Catholic Priests have been approached by souls in Purgatory asking for memorial Masses to be said to release them into Heaven, so I was wondering if anyone thought he was in Purgatory, or if instead he had seen the Lobby of Heaven (so to speak).
 
tabsie:

Well then I can see that there could be some substance in what he is saying. He is fortunate to have this private revelation experience. It is curious but negative experiences are also persuasive in making some people revert. Depends on personality of the recipient I guess.

AndyF
 
Near Death Experiences remarkably have also been mentioned in works of high theology. For instance, the ultra-liberal Catholic theologian Hans Kung, who recently had a friendly luncheon meeting with his old adversary His Holiness Pope Benedict, felt the need in his book Eternal Life to discuss them but felt the need to emphasize that all the people the popular NDEer Dr. Raymond Moody examined had experiences of dying, but certainly not death. These people howerever, my have been as close as possible as one comes to the threshold of death, and Kung gave Moody credit and believed Moody deserved respect for advocating belief in an eternal life.

In Canada, a liberal theologian Tom Harpur wrote quite the consoling book on NDE’s, and it must be said that if one has ever come across a person with a positive NDE the similarities are striking, baffling, and genuinely uplifting.

But there is also the flip side, I believe Moody soon after his bestsellers began writing books on reincarnation and Harpur seems to have tossed any conventional Christianity out the window and written a bizarre New Age book The Pagan Christ.

But how can one respond to a family member who gives the experience of being in severe pain, then feeling themselves lifted out their body and floating to the ceiling, looking down upon themselves, and then blazing through a tunnel where either a brilliant Christ or an Angel may appear holding out their hand, before one “comes back”.

Do these NDEs really show anything, do they inspire, or do they, if one relies on researching them overly cause some like Moody and Harpur off to the fringe.

I was always interested in how, culturally, a Christian’s positive NDE may be culturally different from a Hindu’s (appears they may be), or a Jewish person’s NDE as in the Jewish faith, the afterlife sometimes remains a hazy afterthought to life in the present.

Any thoughts? 🙂
 
I recently finished reading “90 Minues in Heaven” and I have to admit that I found it to be fascinating reading. It was very well written, easy to read and very captivating. As a devoult Catholic, I found Mr. Piper’s very vivid description and explanation of what he experienced during the 90 minute separation of his soul from his body to be very credible. It certainly made me feel that Heaven has got to be my destination upon my death. However, as my Catholic faith teaches, I may not be worthy of being sent directly to Heaven but may require some time in Purgatory for cleansing. In any case, what person wouldn’t want to go to Heaven if one experiences total and complete Love and Joy for eternity being in the presence of Our Lord and God. Reading 90 Minutes in Heaven also brought home the realization of never knowing when our time will come to pass on from this earth. We, therefore, have to always be prepared and ensure that our souls are never in a state of mortal sin. Regular confessions, a good prayer life and regularly receiving our Lord through the Eucharist is our best bet for salvation and eternal happiness with our Lord in Heaven.

Bless You All
Vince:)
 
Hello All,

I love to read near death experiences because aside from the details, aside from whether the person saw Jesus, relatives, heaven, hell, whether he was catholic or not ect… aside from all of that, what I find incredible, inspiring, brings me to tears, is that most of these people if not all, changed their lives around. I think that people miss the point. What are the end results? I think that authenthic NDE’s of the heavenly kind, do bring positive changes to the lives of the one who lived through an NDE. They come back renewed, with faith, they learn to give, to share, to be better people. From what I have read, they inspire others to follow in the path of Jesus, they come back to witness, to talk to the congregations, wether catholic or christian the change is always postive.

I believe that proof is in the end result of an NDE.

Solange
 
severntofall said:
The hallucinations are effected by our conscious and subconcious understanding of what is happening. They are based upon our assumptions of what we will experience upon our death, just as our dreams are effected by our real world concerns. Thenotion that the soul could enter heaven and then get sucked back into the body is kind of silly…For some reason, of those who become clinically dead and then revived only 8 -12% experience NDEs. Why doesn’t everyone?
Click to expand...
When you dream, your head is functioning perfectly well. The limbs and senses are disabled to give the mind time to process life, which it does. IN a n.d.e., the head, if functioning at all, is in grievous distress and its outputs should be much less cognizant than in dreaming.

Silly?? Why? If there is another life at all, there is a mechanism to deliver the dead human being to it. Why couldn’t there be an aborted takeoff, so to speak?

And there seems to be, in some cases, a suggestion that n.d.e. is much more common, but the recovering mind suppresses the experience (amnesia), particularly when it has been negative. Read the works of Dr. Rawlings, a heart surgeon, who describes this.

GEddie
 
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