99 Weeks Later, Jobless Have Only Desperation

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I can never follow who is the MSM, and who isn’t. Is Fox the MSM? MSNBC? Is Rush Limbaugh more MSM than Rachael Maddow?
All of the above, in my opinion.
When we pump tens of billions of taxpayer dollars into financial institutions to keep them afloat, and still 140 banks are shuttered, that’s a collapse of the financial system.
Sort of. It was a consolidation. Bigger banks got bigger, smaller banks went broke. FDIC prevented a total collapse.

Hey, do you ever check your messages, or are you trying to give me some sort of a hint?
 
I can never follow who is the MSM, and who isn’t. Is Fox the MSM? MSNBC? Is Rush Limbaugh more MSM than Rachael Maddow? No. Yes. No. I think we all know who is regarded as “MSM” and who isn’t. It’s a matter of common parlence, not a term of art.

Why should I accept your word on the “Carter Recession” anymore than anecdonal tales of the current recession? Don’t then. Some of us lived through it. Some of us didn’t.

It recovered, and then fell back into recession in 1981. The business cycle, and economic recessions are almost never the fault of the sitting president. Presidents have very little control over the economy, and whatever harm or good they manage to do is usually felt after they leave office. Unfortunately, we live with myths that say otherwise - the myth of FDR, and of Reagan - because they are politically useful. I did not mean to imply that the economy recovered the instant Carter was out of office. It most definitely did not. There was the very hard disinflationary period afterward, largely the effect of the Fed’s tight money policy.
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Bank failures:

ritholtz.com/blog/2010/05/bank-failures/

And bank failures are just one small piece of the financial collapse - the failures are only the FDIC insured institutions, and among those, only the ones that TARP couldn’t salvage.

When we pump tens of billions of taxpayer dollars into financial institutions to keep them afloat, and still 140 banks are shuttered, that’s a collapse of the financial system.
No it isn’t.

TARP1b (TARP has gone through several metamorphoses) didn’t salvage failing banks, and wasn’t intended to do that. Most TARP banks were solvent already, and didn’t need TARP at all. Only the “too big to fails” were, among the insolvent or arguably insolvent banks, loaned TARP funds. Most TARP bank recipients were loaned TARP funds in order to bolster net worth so they could take over failing banks. Yes, I know it’s a fiction to call it “net worth”, but that’s how the government treated it for reserve purposes. TARP banks were put on the FDIC “call list” and are, in fact, called when FDIC is about to close an insolvent bank. Insolvent banks or banks on the brink were not (with some politically-favored exceptions like the one Maxine Waters asked Barney Frank to help out) eligible to receive TARP funds. Many TARP recipients did not want TARP funds because they are expensive and dilutive. But the government twisted some of their arms pretty hard to make them do it. About the only banks that have not already repaid TARP are the ones who still want to be on the “call list” to gain market share by taking over failing institutions. It needs to be kept in mind that banks won’t take over failing banks unless FDIC gives them lots of “goodies” to do it. But it’s still cheaper for FDIC to do that than it is to pay off the savers and try to salvage what they can from the loan portfolio. Banks generally have much better “workout teams” than does the FDIC.

There was no collapse of the financial system. I’ll grant that for a very short time there was some danger of it when some banks refused to loan “Fed Funds” to other banks. That did present a potential liquidity crisis, but it did not last very long. And the danger was actually solved by the Fed, which temporarily guaranteed “Fed Funds” transactions. That had nothing to do with TARP.
 
Ridgerunner:

I have no clue who the MSM is. Both liberals and conservatives use the term, to describe people who report or comment on the news they don’t like.

The argument that the financial system didn’t collapse isn’t even worth consideration. Whether banks failed, because they were shuttered by the FDIC, were saved by proxy thorugh TARP, or otherwise, isn’t of much consequence. The system, by all appearances, would have spiraled into oblivion but for massive intervention. Open heart surgery doesn’t erase the fact of a heart attack.
 
You ain’t seen nothing yet -wait until the Bush tax cuts expire on On December 31And if The American Jobs and Closing Tax Loopholes Act of 2010 passes it will be even worse as small businesses are forced to pay self-employment tax on their earnings.

I really see no hope for the economy till after the 2012 presidential elections. We may be able to limit the damage this fall but as long as we have administration with absolutely no experience in how businesses work the best we can hope for is to keep our heads above the water,
That’s what I’m afraid of. 😦 Get any extra debt paid off and hunkier down and what out the storm.
 
Ridgerunner:

I have no clue who the MSM is. Both liberals and conservatives use the term, to describe people who report or comment on the news they don’t like.

The argument that the financial system didn’t collapse isn’t even worth consideration. Whether banks failed, because they were shuttered by the FDIC, were saved by proxy thorugh TARP, or otherwise, isn’t of much consequence. The system, by all appearances, would have spiraled into oblivion but for massive intervention. Open heart surgery doesn’t erase the fact of a heart attack.
Okay. In common usage, the MSM is intended to refer to the older media; e.g., NBC, CBS, ABC, Time, Newsweek, U.S. News, the New York Times, the L.A. Times and other news sources that have a present liberal bias that, for the most part, they make no serious attempt to even hide. I don’t think many people include conservative talk radio or Fox or the Wall Street Journal or Forbes in that designation. The WSJ and Forbes are pretty old too, but conservative talk radio and Fox are newcomers and are thus not considered “mainstream media” in the minds of most people. But as I said, it’s not a precise term.

As to your second point, if you want to think the financial system collapsed, you’re free to think it. But the reality is that most banks didn’t fail and wouldn’t have failed. TARP1b did not save most recipients. They were solvent to begin with, excepting only those I mentioned. You have to realize that TARP funds are expensive. Those banks have to pay 5% on that money, which is a lot more than they pay savers and is more than they loan money for. After 3 or 5 years (I can’t remember which) it will cost them 9%; an absurdly high cost of money. They’re also dilutive. One more time INSOLVENT BANKS AND BANKS ON THE VERGE OF INSOLVENCY (Except for the “too big to fails” and Maxine Waters’ favorite bank and perhaps a few other politically favored banks) DID NOT GET TARP FUNDS. Except for those, TARP didn’t save a single bank.

A little self help here. Google for the list of TARP banks. Then go to Yahoo Financial or CNN or someplace and look at the regulatory net worth of those banks. They’re extraordinarily high except for the “too big to fails” and Maxine Waters’ bank. Then subtract the TARP funds they received and VOILA! You’ll see that even without it, they have sufficient regulatory net worth.

You do know that the financial system didn’t even collapse during the Great Depresssion, don’t you?
 
Okay. In common usage,
Common usage among whom? Fringe partisans, mostly. On the liberal side, they call everyone from the NYT and Washington Post “Versailles,” because they are rich and out of touch with the suffering of ordinary people.
 
The thing that sucks about being a traditional libertarian is that everyone seems biased to me. It’s like I’m stuck in a permanent state of disbelief. Both the conservatives on the right and the liberals on the left seem out of touch with ordinary citizens, while presuming to speak for them.
 
Yep and I can tell you that for those 8,000 jobs you found there are at least 20,000 applying for them most likely more.
Brentwood is part of the Nashville-Davidson–Murfreesboro–Franklin consolidated metropolitan area which has an unemployment rate of 9% and a population of 1,666,566 people. Even if you wrongfully assume that the entire population is looking for work it only puts unemployment at roughly 150,000 people. A simple search using a single resource populates a combined 66,349 job positings within 30 days and 25 miles. And thats just 1 resource, within just 25 miles, and within only 30 days. If she’s still unemployed then she is clearly doing something wrong.
 
The thing that sucks about being a traditional libertarian is that everyone seems biased to me. It’s like I’m stuck in a permanent state of disbelief. Both the conservatives on the right and the liberals on the left seem out of touch with ordinary citizens, while presuming to speak for them.
Being Libertarian can have its advantages. Being that nobody you support has much of a chance of ever being elected to get sit on the sidelines and throw stones at everybody. The rest of us, however, are faced with tough decisions resulting in us having to vote for less-than perfect candidates who have to make all sorts of concessions in order to get in and maintain office.
 
Brentwood is part of the Nashville-Davidson–Murfreesboro–Franklin consolidated metropolitan area which has an unemployment rate of 9% and a population of 1,666,566 people. Even if you wrongfully assume that the entire population is looking for work it only puts unemployment at roughly 150,000 people. A simple search using a single resource populates a combined 66,349 job positings within 30 days and 25 miles. And thats just 1 resource, within just 25 miles, and within only 30 days. If she’s still unemployed then she is clearly doing something wrong.
Your not counting all the people across the country who could be putting in for those jobs. Also, some people will drive an hour to a job. It’s not just the locals that are putting in the applications. For the record my mother also used those same job sources for our area and it has still taken her almost 2 years to find a job. No matter which way you try to slice it, finding a job in this economy, especially for those 50 and older is not easy. No, it’s not because their doing something wrong. Employers are getting to pick and chose from the volumes of applications they are getting. For the most part they don’t want someone who is 50 and older. I noticed in the article this lady is 48 so she is pretty much in that age group.
 
Brentwood is part of the Nashville-Davidson–Murfreesboro–Franklin consolidated metropolitan area which has an unemployment rate of 9% and a population of 1,666,566 people. Even if you wrongfully assume that the entire population is looking for work it only puts unemployment at roughly 150,000 people. A simple search using a single resource populates a combined 66,349 job positings within 30 days and 25 miles. And thats just 1 resource, within just 25 miles, and within only 30 days. If she’s still unemployed then she is clearly doing something wrong.
Maybe I’m doing this wrong, but I ran the entire list of postings on Monster.com for the entire state of Tenn, for the last 30 days - 2372 jobs.
 
Brentwood is part of the Nashville-Davidson–Murfreesboro–Franklin consolidated metropolitan area which has an unemployment rate of 9% and a population of 1,666,566 people. Even if you wrongfully assume that the entire population is looking for work it only puts unemployment at roughly 150,000 people. A simple search using a single resource populates a combined 66,349 job positings within 30 days and 25 miles. And thats just 1 resource, within just 25 miles, and within only 30 days. If she’s still unemployed then she is clearly doing something wrong.
How do you know that each of those job postings are not redundant, and each actually represents a real job opening? Multiple resources aren’t likely to help us, since one cannot just add the jobs from different resources, because employers can post the same job at multiple resources.

I do not think using the U-3 of 9% is a good assumption; using the Shadow Stats alternative is the real measure of unemployment which is more like 20%. But if we assume that the labor force participation rate is 50%, and and an unemployment rate of 9%, the unemployed rate is 75,000 people at a given time. So, at a given time, the number of unemployed is slightly more than the number of available jobs. These numbers do not tell us much about difficulty of getting a job.

I’ve been playing around with these equations trying to construct a toy model of unemployment and job openings during the commercial breaks of the Yankee/Red Sox game.

One can approximate the change in job openings:

(1) dA/dt = B - C ; A = job openings, B = jobs created per unit of time (PUT), C = people being hired PUT .

The equation is rather since the number of job openings increase with the number of jobs created and decreases when people are hired to fill those openings.

The change in unemployed:

(2a) dU/dt = F - C

U = number of unemployed; F = people getting fired/laid off PUT

This is rather intuitive, but the real equation is:

(2b) dU/dt = F - C - D

the D parameter represents the number of discouraged workers that leave the work force PUT so the term would have a negative sign. It could have a positive sign if discouraged workers enter the workforce. For simplification, we will ignore people entering the labor force such as high school and college graduates.

Of course, your survey of the labor market only tells us the value of A and U not, dA/dt or dU/dt. “A” could be maintained at a high number if parameter “C” (people hired) is small. Of course, if parameter “A” increases (dA/dt > 0) because B, the job creation parameter, is high, rather than “C” being low, it would be a good thing. If “C” is a low number, then one can expect the period of unemployment to be high (unless they could easily be discouraged and remove themselves from the pool of unemployed as expressed by the “D” parameter in 2b).

Your survey assumes that A is proportional to the number of people being hired which is reasonable and intuitive. This can be expressed as:

(3) kA = C

where k is a proportionality constant of the proportion of job openings by the unemployed filled PUT

Also, we’ll assume that the rate of discouragement is proportional to the number of unemployed:

(4) mU = D

where m is a proportionality constant of the unemployed becoming discouraged PUT

We’ll plug in (3) and (4) for the differential equations (1) and (2b):

(5) dA/dt = B - kA

(6) dU/dt = F - kA – mU

The equilibrium of (5) (dA/dt = 0) is:

(7) B = kA ; B/k = A ; k = B/A

In other words, if the number of job openings is at an equilibrium and the rate of hiring per job opening “k” is low, then the number of created job openings (B) would also be low. In differential equation (6), a low (k) means that the term, -kA, would be small, so, in order to produce a substantial drop, then mU, the discouragement term, would have to act as a sink for the unemployed, but this would be an undesirable policy goal.

Plugging in (7) into (6) gets us:

(8) dU/dt = F – B – mU

Equations (6) and (8) tells us that knowing “A” (or its equilibrium value) alone cannot inform us of the value of dU/dt. A high equilibrium value “A” could be merely an “illusion” created by a very low “k” and consequently a low “B”, reflecting a lack of hiring. But one can derive “B” is one knows what is the value of “k” and “A”. To put it another way, a high “A” does not necessarily mean that the unemployed can easily find jobs. You also implicitly assume that “k” is a high, but where is the evidence for this?

If F and B are constants, then we can solve (8) (the solution is too long to be shown here):

(9) U = (F-B)/m + C[sub]o[/sub]e[sup]-mt[/sup]

where e = euler number; C[sub]o[/sub] is the constant of integration derived by solving the differential equation.

Over the long run (t= infinity), then U = (F-B)/m because the “C[sub]o[/sub]e[sup]-mt[/sup]” term approaches zero as time goes on. So unemployment is proportional to the rate of job destruction and inversely proportional to discouragement.
 
Appendix: the solution to equation (8):
Code:
1. dU/dt = (F - B) – mU
To reiterate, F and B are constants. Then (F - B) is a constant. For simplification we will assign term “E” to (F-B):
Code:
 2. dU/dt = E – mU
Now let’s isolate U to one side of the equation:
Code:
 3. 1/ (E - mU) dU = dt
We’ll now prepare this expression to be used by the substitution rule:
Code:
  4. (-1/m){-m/ (E – mU)} dU = dt

  5. –m/(E - mU) dU = -mdt
We will apply the substitution rule. In this case: X = E – mU ; dX/dU = m ; dX = m dU
Code:
   6. (1/X) dU = -m dt
[four letter expletive] CAF, I want to use the indefinite integral sign, I’ll use “int” instead:
Code:
   7. int (1/X) dX = int -m dt

   8. ln |X| = -mt + C
C is the constant of integration. Putting everything as an exponent of e gets us:
Code:
   9.  X = e[sup]-mt+C[/sup]

  10. X =  e[sup]-mt[/sup] x e[sup]C[/sup]
The term “e[sup]C[/sup]” is a constant, let’s call it C[sub]o[/sub] now:
  1. X = C[sub]o[/sub]e[sup]-mt[/sup]
Substituting back, X = E – mU:
Code:
  12. E – mU = C[sub]o[/sub]e[sup]-mt[/sup]
  1. -mU = C[sub]o[/sub]e[sup]-mt[/sup] – E
  2. U = E/m - C[sub]o[/sub]e[sup]-mt[/sup]/m
Since both “C[sub]o[/sub]” and “m” are constants, then “C[sub]o[/sub]” stays a constant if it is divided by -m:
  1. U = E/m + C[sub]o[/sub]e[sup]-mt[/sup]
Substituting back E = F- B
16. U = (F-B)/m + C[sub]o[/sub]e[sup]-mt[/sup]
 
I believe PJ O’rourke was able to shed some light on this topic with his equation:

C = SN ( 1n(s/k) + (r+o2/2)t) - ke(-rt) N
________________
OVt

(where: C,S,N,1n and K = things you don’t understand
And r, o, t, and e = things you don’t want to know

the above equation is, of course, incomplete - from his excellent book, Eat the Rich.

search.barnesandnoble.com/Eat-the-Rich/P-J-ORourke/e/9780871137609

Ishii
 
LOL @ ishii

What’s the deal with math on the forums lately? I spend most my time studying on here enough as it is, and none of it’s math. It’s making my head hurt.
 
Just a thought…

Supposing Unemployment benefits were framed for the end user (recipient) in such a way that the monthly check was a loan instead of a handout…

People would think twice about taking UI and would be eager to get back to work to avoid incurring additional debt. At the same time, no one will be left destitute or unable to feed their kids. There would be no time limits…Use it for as long as you are out of work.

It seems that would solve a lot of the abuses and problems associated with UI. At the same time it might bring on some new ones.

Think this makes sense???
 
Common usage among whom? Fringe partisans, mostly. On the liberal side, they call everyone from the NYT and Washington Post “Versailles,” because they are rich and out of touch with the suffering of ordinary people.
Not that it’s terribly important, but I have seen the older, major news sources referred to as the “mainstream media” for a long time; certainly before there was ever a Fox News. I will admit I have never seen the NYT or Washington Post referred to as “Versailles”, nor does it seem in any way appropriate, since neither is “rich” and both are on the liberal side of things, generally speaking.
 
I dont know how I feel about all this unemployment benefits thing anymore.

I have a friend who has been unemployed for over a year. I have been praying for her… feeling bad for her…

Then she told me what she makes on unemployment and her mortgage company hasnt gotten a payment in months and just gave her more time not to pay.
She also rents out a room in her home.

I rent an apartment, I sold my home when things got tough… If I dont pay one month… I live in my car. I am self employed and business is not so great right now. She is making more money on unemployment than I will make working this month. AND… she has no mortgage payment.

Ugh.
 
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