99 Weeks Later, Jobless Have Only Desperation

[Ridgerunner]

I dont know how I feel about all this unemployment benefits thing anymore.

I have a friend who has been unemployed for over a year. I have been praying for her… feeling bad for her…

Then she told me what she makes on unemployment and her mortgage company hasnt gotten a payment in months and just gave her more time not to pay.
She also rents out a room in her home.

I rent an apartment, I sold my home when things got tough… If I dont pay one month… I live in my car. I am self employed and business is not so great right now. She is making more money on unemployment than I will make working this month. AND… she has no mortgage payment.

Ugh.

I do not, for an instant, disbelieve the problems people say they have. I’m sure they do, and I’m just appalled by it. However, though I am no longer young, and though my “lifetime skills” are sort of narrow, I know for certain I could get a job paying at least $25,000 to $30,000, the day after tomorrow. That’s not a whole lot of money. It might be physically demanding, and I might have to shape up some, but I see people sixty and seventy years old getting jobs if they want them, and it sure does seem to me there are huge differences in different parts of this country. I’m just astonished by it. I truly am.

 

[Stjudeprayforus]

I do not, for an instant, disbelieve the problems people say they have. I’m sure they do, and I’m just appalled by it. However, though I am no longer young, and though my “lifetime skills” are sort of narrow, I know for certain I could get a job paying at least $25,000 to $30,000, the day after tomorrow. That’s not a whole lot of money. It might be physically demanding, and I might have to shape up some, but I see people sixty and seventy years old getting jobs if they want them, and it sure does seem to me there are huge differences in different parts of this country. I’m just astonished by it. I truly am.

I am shocked too… I know there are people who are truly trying…but give me a break.

I heard a head hunter on the radio saying he has several openings for engineers, the jobs pay 60k. But he cant find anyone because it s a cut in pay from what they were making and they have hardly any expenses being unemployed. No child care… no dry cleaning… no meals out… no gas money commuting…ect. Food stamps and reduced electric bills help with the rest of life.
So why would they give up 99 weeks of staying at home with the kids?

My son, 17, just got a job cleaning offices at night. His first job. His boss told him he was glad to have the help, the only people applying for his positions are illegal immigrants.

I am all for helping those in need… but what I see is some people unemployed making more than I am working, AND I AM PAYING FOR IT…it ticks me off.

 

[CatholicGerman]

The rest of us, however, are faced with tough decisions resulting in us having to vote for less-than perfect candidates who have to make all sorts of concessions in order to get in and maintain office.

Eh… it’s not so simple. I’m a libertarian, not a Libertarian. I’m a registered Republican, so I do have to hold my nose and vote for people who might actually win.

But it still sort of sucks.

 

[CatholicGerman]

What’s the deal with math on the forums lately? I spend most my time studying on here enough as it is, and none of it’s math. It’s making my head hurt.

Sorry, if I’ve been a culprit. Hangover from my engineering and statistics days. I have a thing for charts and diagrams. At any rate, I make my own head hurt sometimes. I think my posting a bunch of statistics is encouraging the others to misbehave with math, as well.

The formulaic stuff looks like what my husband throws at me everytime I try to debate him on macroeconomic theory. Sometimes he manages to throw in some thermonuclear dynamics, apparently just for the heck of it, at which point I’m completely lost. Unfortunately, I don’t understand it enough to dispute it’s relevancy to our conversation, so he always wins by default, at that point.

 

[Good_News_1]

I heard a head hunter on the radio saying he has several openings for engineers, the jobs pay 60k. But he cant find anyone because it s a cut in pay from what they were making and they have hardly any expenses being unemployed.

People should demand what they are worth.

 

[CatholicGerman]

People should demand what they are worth.

Absolutely! You are worth what people are willing to pay you. Your worth is decided by the market. The government manipulates the market to make people appear to be worth more than they are, by raising the amount each person must earn before he feels compelled to accept a position.

 

[estesbob]

Absolutely! You are worth what people are willing to pay you. Your worth is decided by the market. The government manipulates the market to make people appear to be worth more than they are, by raising the amount each person must earn before he feels compelled to accept a position.

Perhaps the solution is to make the unemployed work 20 hours a week doing government service and 20 hours a week looking for a job. The government service being, for instance, cleaning up trash on the side of the road.

 

[Black_Rose]

Sorry, if I’ve been a culprit. Hangover from my engineering and statistics days. I have a thing for charts and diagrams. At any rate, I make my own head hurt sometimes. I think my posting a bunch of statistics is encouraging the others to misbehave with math, as well.

The formulaic stuff looks like what my husband throws at me everytime I try to debate him on macroeconomic theory. Sometimes he manages to throw in some thermonuclear dynamics, apparently just for the heck of it, at which point I’m completely lost. Unfortunately, I don’t understand it enough to dispute it’s relevancy to our conversation, so he always wins by default, at that point.

Thermonuclear dynamics? I assume that has something to do with plasma physics or nuclear fusion.

Surely, there is no reason to be afraid of simple ordinary differential equations and saying one factor is proportional to another.

The equations are largely child’s play (and I thought of them watching a baseball game); just mathematical expressions of common sense. For sample, saying that unemployment rises when people are laid off/fired and declines when people are hired, and the net effect of these factors determine the rate of change in unemployment is common sense. This can be expressed as a differential equation:

dU/dt = F - C

(F = number of people fired/laid off at a given time; C = people hired at a given time)

dU/dt simply means rate of change of unemployment over time.

The equations have absolutely no esoteric content at all. Again, it’s child’s play! My main motivation was to simply provide a descriptive, exploratory analysis of unemployment; it most certainly has no predictive power.

 

[Stjudeprayforus]

People should demand what they are worth.

Demand from who exactly? A business struggling to keep the doors open?

Thank you, for the liberal perspective…Now… I really don’t feel sorry for someone unemployed for 99 weeks.

 

[Black_Rose]

Absolutely! You are worth what people are willing to pay you. Your worth is decided by the market. The government manipulates the market to make people appear to be worth more than they are, by raising the amount each person must earn before he feels compelled to accept a position.

Shouldn’t higher labor prices be a goal of national policy? So what is wrong with that? Very high wages are good thing, so government intervention that raises wage (by decreasing the supply of labor) is a good thing?

 

[Good_News_1]

Absolutely! You are worth what people are willing to pay you.

And you are willing to accept.

Your worth is decided by the market.

My worth is decided by me as much as the market.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Thermonuclear dynamics? I assume that has something to do with plasma physics or nuclear fusion.

Surely, there is no reason to be afraid of simple ordinary differential equations and saying one factor is proportional to another.

The equations are largely child’s play (and I thought of them watching a baseball game); just mathematical expressions of common sense. For sample, saying that unemployment rises when people are laid off/fired and declines when people are hired, and the net effect of these factors determine the rate of change in unemployment is common sense. This can be expressed as a differential equation:

dU/dt = F - C

(F = number of people fired/laid off at a given time; C = people hired at a given time)

dU/dt simply means rate of change of unemployment over time.

The equations have absolutely no esoteric content at all. Again, it’s child’s play! My main motivation was to simply provide a descriptive, exploratory analysis of unemployment; it most certainly has no predictive power.

M Dn=V+(W)Dc/S. “M”, then, = ?

 

[Good_News_1]

Demand from who exactly? A business struggling to keep the doors open?

Corporate profits are up, by and large.

I demand fair pay for my services, as defined by me. If someone is too cheap to pay, they don’t get the benefit of my services. I’m not really interested in working for someone on the brink of bankrupcty, but I’m sure others are.

Thank you, for the liberal perspective.

How is this a liberal perspective? This is how economics works: negotiation.

If an engineer was making $80,000 a year two years ago, and demands that same value now, by all means he is entitled to do so.

 

[Good_News_1]

Shouldn’t higher labor prices be a goal of national policy?

No, see, the way it should work is this: some engineer was designing airplanes two years ago, and got laid off because orders dropped off. Now, he is obligated to accept $40,000, even though the plane isn’t any cheaper, and profits are up, because other engineers are unemployed. If he doesn’t do this, he is a moral derelict, a socialist, lazy, and probably deserves to be on the street.

 

[Filius_Prodigus]

I am sorry for the suffering this woman must endure. I will not judge her as I am not in a position to do so. The government has set up a system to aid these people and get them back on their feet. Taxpayers and employers foot the bill. I didn’t detect a whole lot of gratitude for helping her stay above the “waterline”.

At what point does the government (taxpayer’s) responsibility end. Unprecedented deficits will cause inflation and higher taxes which will make it harder (not easier) to find a job.

I know that there are people out there who are seriously frustrated finding a job, any job. But, there are others who view these extended benefits as an elongated vacation. In my view giving people money never works in the long run. Instead create incentives for businesses to hire and get people working.

The NYT is nothing but a liberal rag that wants to see people dependent on the government so those responsible for these foolish policies remain in power…

For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

Only in the US do Catholics subscribe to the gospel of greed instead of the Gospel of Christ. Nowhere else in the world.

What you have said goes against not only the Gospel but also the Social Doctrine of the RCC.

See:


COMPENDIUM OF THE SOCIAL DOCTRINE OF THE CHURCHPONTIFICAL COUNCIL FOR JUSTICE AND PEACE

Articles: 23, 24, 89 (“obligations of the rich”), 105, 158 (“The Church’s social doctrine, in consideration of the privilege accorded by the Gospel to the poor, repeats over and over that “the more fortunate should renounce some of their rights so as to place their goods more generously at the service of others””), 182, 183, 184, etc.

“Where does the taxpayers responsibility have an end?” you say? The Christian’s responsibility has no end. The NYT cited the example of hardworking people who cannot make ends meet due to the irresponsibility of the corrupt in this country. They aren’t thumbsucking bums, these are hardworking people in hardship!

 

[Good_News_1]

What you have said goes against not only the Gospel but also the Social Doctrine of the RCC.

I think her position is she’s opposing sloth.

 

[CatholicGerman]

And you are willing to accept.

My worth is decided by me as much as the market.

Yes, but you are part of the market. *We *are the market. The government manipulates the market by changing what you would be willing to accept.

 

[Filius_Prodigus]

I think her position is she’s opposing sloth.

She might be thinking she does. She is actually opposing solidarity and core messages of Judaism and Christianity.

 

[CatholicGerman]

How is this a liberal perspective? This is how economics works: negotiation.

If an engineer was making $80,000 a year two years ago, and demands that same value now, by all means he is entitled to do so.

And the employer is entitled to reject his offer and make a counter-offer at a lower price.

At any rate, I find it humorous that everyone thinks you are a “liberal”. You are far to the right of most “liberals”. I think their interpretation of your comments is skewed because of the general makeup of this forum.

As a libertarian, I consider myself a solid centrist. (Stop laughing. I’m trying to be serious here.)

 

[CatholicGerman]

For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

Oh, goody! It’s a fight of the Bible verses. Count me in!

Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from every brother who leads an unruly life and not according to the tradition which you received from us. For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example, because we did not act in an undisciplined manner among you, nor did we eat anyone’s bread without paying for it, but with labor and hardship we kept working night and day so that we would not be a burden to any of you; not because we do not have the right to this, but in order to offer ourselves as a model for you, so that you would follow our example. For even when we were with you, we used to give you this order: if anyone is not willing to work, then he is not to eat, either. For we hear that some among you are leading an undisciplined life, doing no work at all, but acting like busybodies. Now such persons we command and exhort in the Lord Jesus Christ to work in quiet fashion and eat their own bread. But as for you, brethren, do not grow weary of doing good.

If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of that person and do not associate with him, so that he will be put to shame. Yet do not regard him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

Your quote was about private charity. This excerpt is dealing with communitarian resource transfers. Only those who are willing to contribute, as they are able, should be allowed to eat from the common table.

Sitting around playing on your Playstation and collecting a check should result in being “put to shame”. Not because he is an enemy, but because he is a lazy brother who should know better, and obviously needs to be reminded.