A bit confused on teaching of divorce

[angell1]

I thought divorce itself is not sinful, provoded you have a legitimate reason and didn’t remarry without a decree of nullity

but the catechism classifies it as grave sin.

and what if someone did get divorced for a reason that’s not considered legitimate? how does that go for receiving communion, ins’t he in a divorced state? or is there no such thing as that?

also, how did catholic societies handle violent, abusive and infidelity if there was no divorce in the past? were spouses permit to live separately at least?

 

[lalindsay225]

I can’t speak to all of your questions, but I was divorced nearly 12 years ago, after my husband left me for another woman. The priest I spoke with at the time explained that I wouldn’t be in a state of sin unless I remarried without a decree of nullity.

Not sure what he would have told my ex. Obviously his remarriage was a sin, but I don’t know if the divorce was considered a sin in itself for him.

 

[Bookcat]

I thought divorce itself is not sinful, provoded you have a legitimate reason and didn’t remarry without a decree of nullity

but the catechism classifies it as grave sin.

and what if someone did get divorced for a reason that’s not considered legitimate? how does that go for receiving communion, ins’t he in a divorced state? or is there no such thing as that?

also, how did catholic societies handle violent, abusive and infidelity if there was no divorce in the past? were spouses permit to live separately at least?

The Catechism yes goes into detail about this - it can take a few readings to get all the aspects there.

And in the case of sinful divorce - a person can repent and go to confession. Reconciliation of the two spouses is not always possible after a divorce.

There can be reasons to get a “civil divorce” - such as the needs of the Children etc. The persons though know that in the case of a valid sacramental marriage they* are still married.* Though they live apart.

Separations can be permitted for the right reasons. They recognize they are married but they need to live separately.

 

[Benita58]

My fiance’ John and I have been engaged for 7 years now. I left the state for 5 years, because I did not want to be an influence if John and his ex wife had a chance to reconcile. His ex wife has gone from bad to worse and has legally married her lesbian partner for whom she left the marriage for in the first place. There has not been any communication with each other except for a brief time when John had custody of his handicapped daughter who had been removed at age 11 for morbid obesity because the ex wife refused to take the girl to medical appts and give medication for thyroid. The young woman is now 21, and the ex wife took custody playing the gay trump card. Long story short, I have been widowed for 9 years now and have 3 boys with special needs who have loved John as a Dad, and even though I lived in Michigan again for 5 years we kept in touch and he visited when he could. I have moved back to his state of New Mexico, and we have decided to marry. Our lives are settled, the grief has subsided on my side, we are both in our middle 50s, and would like to spend the rest of our lives making our dreams come true. Are we wrong to marry? I have heard from friends and clergy both sides of the divorce and remarriage debate, so yes I am terribly confused. Thanks for any answers given,

 

[mikekle]

My dad has been thru one divorce, he was married briefly to a women in the early 90s, but it did not work out, they were both catholic and went to the same parish, before they met as well, they were only married for 2 years, they got a legal divorce and the marriage was annulled in the church…Im not sure why the church agreed to annul it though…none of them cheated on each other, they just found they were not meant to be married and live together, IMO, thats enough for a secular, legal divorce, but not in the church, Im still not sure why the church annulled this marriage? Could it be they are granting these more due to the changing world? If that is true, I dont believe that should be happening.

As bad as it sounds, I think the church really should have denied my dads request and asked him to leave the parish or tell him he cannot receive communion anymore as a result of his divorce, but he is on the board at the church and has been for many years, maybe this was the reason?

 

[thistle]

My dad has been thru one divorce, he was married briefly to a women in the early 90s, but it did not work out, they were both catholic and went to the same parish, before they met as well, they were only married for 2 years, they got a legal divorce and the marriage was annulled in the church…Im not sure why the church agreed to annul it though…none of them cheated on each other, they just found they were not meant to be married and live together, IMO, thats enough for a secular, legal divorce, but not in the church, Im still not sure why the church annulled this marriage? Could it be they are granting these more due to the changing world? If that is true, I dont believe that should be happening.

As bad as it sounds, I think the church really should have denied my dads request and asked him to leave the parish or tell him he cannot receive communion anymore as a result of his divorce, but he is on the board at the church and has been for many years, maybe this was the reason?

Grounds for annulment apply only up to the marriage. What happens during the marriage is not grounds for an annulment but may act as support to any grounds up to the marriage.

 

[mikekle]

Grounds for annulment apply only up to the marriage. What happens during the marriage is not grounds for an annulment but may act as support to any grounds up to the marriage.

So, are there ever any annulments that are denied? Ive never heard of any in my parish.

 

[Joan_M]

So, are there ever any annulments that are denied? Ive never heard of any in my parish.

Yes, there are. However, usually this happens at the stage where someone is inquiring as to whether they might have grounds for annulment - before starting the paperwork. It is normal for someone seeking an annulment to discuss the possibility with a priest. If there does not seem to be any grounds, then they will be advised not to proceed. This means that the vast majority of applications that proceed are likely to be granted, since they have already shown that there appears to be grounds for nullity.

 

[thistle]

So, are there ever any annulments that are denied? Ive never heard of any in my parish.

I’m sure there are.

Personally, I think annulments should be made very hard to get. Too many people (not all of course) do not work hard enough to keep a marriage intact.

 

[mikekle]

I’m sure there are.

Personally, I think annulments should be made very hard to get. Too many people (not all of course) do not work hard enough to keep a marriage intact.

Yea, I agree, I know with my dad and the woman he was married to briefly, neither of them tried that hard, I think they both gave up and that was that.

I think the church feels stuck, as if they deny too many, they may end up loosing alot of members. I sometimes wonder, even though the church may have annulled a marriage, in Gods eyes, it may not be worthy of a annulment, and they may be held responsible for receiving sacraments afterwards.

 

[thistle]

Yea, I agree, I know with my dad and the woman he was married to briefly, neither of them tried that hard, I think they both gave up and that was that.

I think the church feels stuck, as if they deny too many,** they may end up loosing alot of members.** I sometimes wonder, even though the church may have annulled a marriage, in Gods eyes, it may not be worthy of a annulment, and they may be held responsible for receiving sacraments afterwards.

I watched an EWTN interview of Pope Benedict (while he was still Cardinal Ratzinger) and he said it would be better to have a smaller Church of those who are faithful.

 

[rcwitness]

I’m sure there are.

Personally, I think annulments should be made very hard to get. Too many people (not all of course) do not work hard enough to keep a marriage intact.

Well, I understand what you mean here, but…

Either the marriage is valid or it is not. The difficulty in determining the validity of the marriage is irrevalent, right?

Perhaps the Church sometimes nullifies marriages that were in fact valid…

It would be nice to see some of these people seeking to nullify the marriage in order to validly marry one another, instead of seeking to abandon the relationship they had for so long. Maybe this renewal of their love would heal them. I don’t know, it’s a messed up world of justifying our wretched lives.

 

[firead]

My dad has been thru one divorce, he was married briefly to a women in the early 90s, but it did not work out, they were both catholic and went to the same parish, before they met as well, they were only married for 2 years, they got a legal divorce and the marriage was annulled in the church…Im not sure why the church agreed to annul it though…none of them cheated on each other, they just found they were not meant to be married and live together, IMO, thats enough for a secular, legal divorce, but not in the church, Im still not sure why the church annulled this marriage? Could it be they are granting these more due to the changing world? If that is true, I dont believe that should be happening.

As bad as it sounds, I think the church really should have denied my dads request and asked him to leave the parish or tell him he cannot receive communion anymore as a result of his divorce, but he is on the board at the church and has been for many years, maybe this was the reason?

One thing to take into account is that there may be an issue at play you are not aware of.

I’ve been married for close to 10 years, but there is a good chance my realtionship will be ending within the next few years, unless drastic changes take place. If we divorce, the situation behind wuld be grounds for annulment in the opinion of everybody I have asked about the situation, and I have been adivised that staying married if theings get to a certain point could possibly be considered sinful. (Sorry for the vagueness, but it’s a complicated situation).

One thing I can assure you is that, if we divorce, my son will never know the reason why and will probably assume that is is because of “compatibility” or "growing apart. Knowing the issues behind it would likely have a bad influence on him, and it is just not something he needs to know about.

 

[rcwitness]

One thing to take into account is that there may be an issue at play you are not aware of.

I’ve been married for close to 10 years, but there is a good chance my realtionship will be ending within the next few years, unless drastic changes take place. If we divorce, the situation behind wuld be grounds for annulment in the opinion of everybody I have asked about the situation, and I have been adivised that staying married if theings get to a certain point could possibly be considered sinful. (Sorry for the vagueness, but it’s a complicated situation).

One thing I can assure you is that, if we divorce, my son will never know the reason why and will probably assume that is is because of “compatibility” or "growing apart. Knowing the issues behind it would likely have a bad influence on him, and it is just not something he needs to know about.

Thanks for sharing. I would be very interested to know what grounds for an annulment would be. Was the marriage done according to the Catholic Rite? Where you both Catholic? But im not pushing, its fine to stay vague here.

I just dont want to believe that the Church can find something in most any marriage to see it as never being valid to begin with.

For example, has some couple in the history of the Church received an annulment for something that my wife and I did in our courtship and ceremony? Not that I have doubts about my wedding and Sacrament.

 

[firead]

Thanks for sharing. I would be very interested to know what grounds for an annulment would be. Was the marriage done according to the Catholic Rite? Where you both Catholic? But im not pushing, its fine to stay vague here.

Neither of us were Catholic when we married. I converted later. He claimed to be a Christian at the time, but later told me he was just going along with it because he thought it was what I & other people wanted to hear- he went to church for a while, then forbid me from attending any church for years because he disagreed with Christian morality.

The main grounds would be that he didn’t intend to remain faithful and exclusive and had a very warped view of the purpose of marriage. There are other issues at play as well, things that were concealed that would have been “deal-breakers” if he had been honest about them up front. I didn’t find out about the worst of it until I was pregnant and he had convinced me to quit my job, basically once I was no able to leave.

 

[MJJean]

I just don’t want to believe that the Church can find something in most any marriage to see it as never being valid to begin with.

For example, has some couple in the history of the Church received an annulment for something that my wife and I did in our courtship and ceremony? Not that I have doubts about my wedding and Sacrament.

The Church probably could find most marriages invalid if the spouses divorced and applied. Frankly, a lot of people marry without truly intending to be married as marriage is taught by the Church. An awful lot of people think those vows are an adorable little tradition that doesn’t actually bind them to the other party for life.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

The Church probably could find most marriages invalid if the spouses divorced and applied. Frankly, a lot of people marry without truly intending to be married as marriage is taught by the Church. An awful lot of people think those vows are an adorable little tradition that doesn’t actually bind them to the other party for life.

Sad, but true, especially here in the US.

Sometimes I think it’s more about the planning, the party and having a license to be a rude, demanding, witch to everyone you encounter.
I have worked with my fair share of “bride-zillas” in many different aspects- catering, flowers and while working for the Church. I will echo the sentiments of many a priest I know,
“I would rather have 10 funerals in a week than 1 wedding!” (

 

[rcwitness]

Neither of us were Catholic when we married. I converted later. He claimed to be a Christian at the time, but later told me he was just going along with it because he thought it was what I & other people wanted to hear- he went to church for a while, then forbid me from attending any church for years because he disagreed with Christian morality.

The main grounds would be that he didn’t intend to remain faithful and exclusive and had a very warped view of the purpose of marriage. There are other issues at play as well, things that were concealed that would have been “deal-breakers” if he had been honest about them up front. I didn’t find out about the worst of it until I was pregnant and he had convinced me to quit my job, basically once I was no able to leave.

He admits to not having the Catholic faith during the wedding vows? The wedding was not Catholic? He held heterodox beliefs about marriage but kept it secret from you?

Is he still a non believer?

Im sorry about this kind of deception and affliction. Who did perform the wedding ceremony?

 

[rcwitness]

The Church probably could find most marriages invalid if the spouses divorced and applied. Frankly, a lot of people marry without truly intending to be married as marriage is taught by the Church. An awful lot of people think those vows are an adorable little tradition that doesn’t actually bind them to the other party for life.

So, to claim this is grounds for the Church to say that the Sacrament never happened, or was never received? This is strange to me. I don’t think any of the other Sacraments work this way… ?

 

[His_helpmeet]

So, to claim this is grounds for the Church to say that the Sacrament never happened, or was never received? This is strange to me. I don’t think any of the other Sacraments work this way… ?

For a marriage to be valid, both parties must be free to marry, they must willingly give their free consent to be married, they must be at least open to the possibility of new life, and they must intend to live together as husband and wife for the rest of their lives. This falls under natural law. For a Catholic, there is the added requirement of following divine law, which means being married in the Church or outside it with dispensation in specific circumstances. If one or more of these things was missing, the marriage is not valid.

I suspect the significant numbers of declarations of nullity that are granted today are due to three primary reasons:

1. Poorly catechized Catholics who were not properly educated about the nature of marriage (either because they refused such education or because it was never offered)
2. Catholics wishing to marry a non-Catholic who has been married previously (a non-Catholic would not necessarily be apprised of the requirements of marriage, and depending on where the marriage was conducted and by whom, there may have been little, if any preparation - my DH was married civilly (declaration of nullity granted - we are sacramentally married) and he and his ex had no marriage preparation at all)
3. Divorced and remarried people who wish to become Catholic.

You have to remember that back in the day divorce and remarriage were practically unheard-of in many situations. It was also very uncommon for a Catholic to marry a non-Catholic.

As far as requests being denied - it does happen. In our area, the regional tribunal receives about 220 requests for study a year and grants about 180 declarations of nullity a year.