A brief history of political islam

[algebra]

Or naming a teddy bear Mohammad. Remember that one?

Yes, slightly scary…

 

[R_not]

** This thread has progressed a long way now. I am back to page one. algebra, please note that there is zero politics in Islam. islam may have its own politics but it is not a political religion. It is all spiritual. Zero politics. **

Sorry, but your sharia laws just nullified your statement there. Stop the taqiyya, planten. You know as well as any of us who are informed about islam is that it slithers into every aspect of a muslim’s life, and that includes politics. Or else muslims wouldn’t be doing land grabs, or at least trying, around this globe.
planten;4961563:

There is good beliefs, effort to do good deeds, help the poor, befriend the neighbor, every wordly good things are in it without any politics. There is much rememberance of Allah and pure worship (prayers) to the One God. That is all the same from day one.
But it has to look after the infidels too because they cause mischief in the land and disturb the peace. Only in that case there are laws to regulate the society.

And here is where you just nullifed all your statements about being political and being peaceful. When we see that it is muslims that cannot behave themselves, who are killing others or persecuting them because of some god they have.

The reliion Islam is full of respect for all prophets of Allah. The trouble Muhammad had at the hands of the pagans was the same any other man of God had at the hands of his enemies.

Muhammad suffered very much at the hands of the enemies for 13 years in Makkah, such as no one may have suffered before. His followers were highly persecuted, made to flee the country. Every type of hardship was inflicted upon Muhammad and his friends. He did not retaliate. Until, one day the enemies planned to kill him.

I don’t see any respect for anyone else except for mohammed. You have bashed your idea of Isa quite often - just because we recognize your ‘prophet’ for what he was.

And as for the so called persecution in Mecca - I have disproved that many times from your own texts. It was mohammed who was the pill and he caused his own problems. The elders of Mecca did nothing to mohammed and even asked his uncle to stop mohammed from being such a pill to everyone.

I am not going to repost your own texts again.

Tell me, it was only a difference of belief. Muhammad had said, “There is no God except One, Allah…” Was that any crime, or dacoity or rape of theft? That was no crime. he was peaceful. Yet he was made to run for his life. Just let me know what is politics, under such circumstances? Please do not be a non-practical simplistic puritan. See all things.

If he would have just stopped there and not killed, enslaved, looted, lied, persecuted, tortured, assasinated others then you might be correct - but he did those things and your own texts prove that he did those things. So, stop behaving as if you don’t know he did those things.

I am sure Muhammad had no political ambitions. The Pagans had offered Muhammad the kingship of Arabia. He siad that he did not want to be any king. That was in Makkah during persecution. Muhamamd was a pure peaceful person all his life, while in Makkah and in Madinah and the rest of his life too. Had the Pagans of Makkah not attacked Madinah every year, he would not have picked the sword. That sword was for defence only.

You got to be kidding. He not only waged offensive wars and raids, he would purposely attack those who he knew didn’t carry a lot of weapons and had a lot of women and children along with them, including a lot of goods. And that was the caravans. He also attacked cities not known for being armed, but were known for their trades and craftsmen.

He looted, took slaves and he even tortured a man when he wanted to make sure he got all of his possessions.

Later also Muhammad had no harsh designs against any one of the other faiths.
I agree with your views about politicising Islam or political Islam. But you have to give me the right to practice and preach my faith peacefully. Then you can have all the politics. I will not need anything else. You can then rule the world and your children may rule for ever. I will not even look to the chair. I will be content with my prayer mat. Would you be satisfied with that? Please tell me. How is that? It is a proposition, a hypothetical case.

You want the right that you give no one else. What a hypocrite! You even stated in your post you won’t give that right to anyone else. And even if you personally don’t want to be political - islam is political.

I say - take your mat and keep your religion at home and at the mosque, but muslims are not doing that. They are forcing kids in schools in Eastern Europe to not only dress like a muslim, but to do other things that should only be for muslim kids and not forced onto others.

Since jihad is a part of islam, is this what you mean by ‘spreading your religion’? It certainly says that in the koran! Or is this the way islam is spread? Oh here is some more ‘spreading the religion’!

these are just a tiny minority of examples to show that it isn’t others who are spreading ‘mischief’.

 

[Verisimilitude]

Look, you’re either a monotheist or you’re not. If you are (and I assume you are) and you accept that muslims are monotheists, then you have to agree that there is some truth in Islam. (I’m using truth and goodness interchangably here, because truth is good, by definition). So the inescapable conclusion is that there is something true, i.e. something good in Islam. Can you tell me where I’m going wrong with my logic here?

It was a simple series of questions and if you answer them with a yes or no it should answer your logic quesion. Please answer ye sor no:

Do you worship allah of the Quran? Is allah of the Quran Christ? Is allah of the Quran the Holy Spirit? Is allah of the Quran Our Father?

Do you believe God is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit? Allah of the Quran says no; what do you say?

I say that Mohammad is a false prophet. But that doesn’t mean the concept of Allah is completely untrue (see above). If you look at their objective qualities Allah (which is only the Arabic word for God) and God are more similar than different, especially if you compare them to the pantheistic gods of the ancient world. The Allah of the Quran has an imperfect spokesperson.

A false prophet is an imperfect spokesperson for God but still somehow legitimate in some ways?

As I see it, I’m not defending Islam, I’m defending clear thinking. I’m perfectly willing to believe that Islam is false, even malicious, but there are sound and unsound reasons for believing that statement. If the reasons you cite violate logic, then it’s fair to point that out and look for other, better ones.

But you are defending it and you are not clear thinking so your defense of logic is misguided and is illogical.

As for your faith, you and I share the same faith. Nothing I have said goes against our faith. If anything your pronouncements about Islam seem out of step with what the Vatican teaches.

No, it isn’t, but yours is. You give Mohammed legitimacy and the Vatican does not. What the vatican says is Moslems calim to profess the faith of Abraham; not that they actually do.

Well I don’t have a Quran handy (I do own one, but it’s in my parents’ house, several states away). I disagree that you “reasonably and logically” disputed the objective goodness of the 5 pillars of Islam. All you did was arbitrarily denigrate them in the context of Islam. Which is why I accused you of using a double standard: pilgrimage is good in Christianity, bad in Islam, etc. If Islam had a celibate priesthood you would find a way to denigrate that too, I’m pretty sure.

There are book stores and internet sources so I don’t buy your excuse except to conclude your knowledge of them is quite limited.

I don’t see any evidence of that, but you’re welcome to try to prove it if you wish. Is monotheism qualified in Islam? What about daily prayer? How about almsgiving to the poor? Have a go at it.

I have proved it and only your obstinace refuses to see the qualifications. All you need do is look back a few posts.

I don’t think it teaches things that are not good now, but arguably in the past it did. How about the strong statements of “outside the Church there is no salvation” issued by Popes in the past? We still believe that is true but not in exactly the same way. There are loopholes now, so that one cannot say without hesitation today that say, Anne Frank woke up in Hell after she was executed. God’s mercy is seen as too great to be bound by human intellect.

Wow. So Church Doctrine is chanageable and the vatican provides loopholes. Amazing.

Please keep in mind I love and admire Christianity; I do not love or admire Islam. I am arguing specifically against your assertion that “there are no good teachings in Islam”; I believe there are some good teachings and some bad teachings in Islam (denial of the trinity for example).

Well, I am still waithing for you or algebra or anyone to provide a unqualified goodness of Islam.

 

[algebra]

The unreserved love for God.

No matter how misguided their actions based on that love may be.

 

[tomarin]

It was a simple series of questions and if you answer them with a yes or no it should answer your logic quesion. Please answer ye sor no:

I’ll try. Give me a moment.

A false prophet is an imperfect spokesperson for God but still somehow legitimate in some ways?

A false prophet is a false prophet. But there are degrees of falsehood. Joseph Smith is a false prophet, too, but he’s closer to the truth than Mohammad. Mohammad is closer to the truth than L. Ron Hubbard.

But you are defending it and you are not clear thinking so your defense of logic is misguided and is illogical.

I’m not defending it, I’m critiquing your arguments against it. That isn’t the same thing as defending it. There may be very good reasons for opposing Islam but your arguments are not truthful therefore not valid.

No, it isn’t, but yours is. You give Mohammed legitimacy and the Vatican does not. What the vatican says is Moslems calim to profess the faith of Abraham; not that they actually do.

Yeah, that quote from the catechism is ambiguously worded. On purpose, I think.

Wow. So Church Doctrine is chanageable and the vatican provides loopholes. Amazing.

Church doctrine may not change but our understanding of it does evolve over time. I believe that’s an orthodox expression of what we believe. Maybe I shouldn’t call baptism of desire a “loophole”, but it does appear to contradict “outside the church there is no salvation”. There’s no church involved in baptism of desire.

Well, I am still waithing for you or algebra or anyone to provide a unqualified goodness of Islam.

Not true, Verisimilitude. I did but you refused to accept it (as you did with Algebra) because they’re not hadiths and suras.

 

[tomarin]

Do you worship allah of the Quran?

I don’t normally think of God that way, no.

Is allah of the Quran Christ?

Of course not.

Is allah of the Quran the Holy Spirit?

No.

Is allah of the Quran Our Father?

Possibly – I believe the God depicted by the Quran is an imperfect representation of the one true God.

Do you believe God is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit? Allah of the Quran says no; what do you say?

Of course I believe in the Trinity.

 

[algebra]

Not true, Verisimilitude. I did but you refused to accept it (as you did with Algebra) because they’re not hadiths and suras.

True Tomarin,

What Christians in general do not realise is that if you do not confront islam truthfully, you are woefully unprepared to confront it at all.

If islam was evidently evil, it would have failed for ensnare a good many righteous people.

It is not, it sows seeds of doubt.

It is only when you approach it objectively and see it for what it is, that you realise what it truely is.

As I stated I could easily still be muslim, had I not truthfully questioned my religion.

 

[algebra]

I believe the God depicted by the Quran is an imperfect representation of the one true God.

Precisely.

 

[planten]

Originally Posted by tomarin
I believe the God depicted by the Quran is an imperfect representation of the one true God.

Precisely.

**Not precisely. Islam has explained the God very well. It did not go into any pagan belief or make the God doubtful i.e One in Three and Three god in One. Our God is almost same as that of the Jews. the christian God is different. I do not blame them but they made the matter complicated.

Now about the God. Previously, god used to be described as Father, i.e. in Arabic = Abb. that was the term used in bible OT /NT due to the love of God. It was not Father in real terms. It was possible to be spiritual father only.

The Quran has put up the new term Rabb= Lord. In place of Abb, we have Rabb, i.e. the Lord, the creator, cherisher, nourisher of all things in the Universe, whether they are living or dead matter, whether they are ideas, ilnesses, diseases, cures, typhoons, stars, planets, rusts, theories, bodies, souls, animals, plants. Lord is the supporter of all of those to progress and perfection.

So we do not have any Abb. We have the word Rabb which is a wide ranging attribute of Allah covering all creation.

Then after the word rabb, we have Allah as Rehman and as Raheem and as Maalik.

How could any one say that Islam did not describe The God very well !!**

 

[algebra]

No the islamic concept of God is not the jewish one at all.

The islamic concept of God is an omnipotent immutable God, with no involvement with creation after creation.

In islam it is beneath the dignity of God to involve Himself with humanity, except to assert His domination of humanity.

God is the master, we are His slaves. There the relationship ends.

It is therefore strange that God claims to love His creation, yet insists on remaining distant and aloof from His creations.

This is not the God of the Hebrew Bible, who was far more involved with His creations, much as a father is involved with his children.

 

[Verisimilitude]

I don’t normally think of God that way, no.

Not normally? That leaves the impression sometimes you do. The ‘similarities’ of God commanding ancient Jews to take the Promised Land by war has something similar to Moslems making Arabia all for Islam during Mohammeds time and expanding that religion by war to all lands currently called Islamic since his death; is this the similarity you see: the glimmer of truth in Islam since they share a quality of war as they share a quality of respecting elders and parents?

Of course not.

No.

Possibly – I believe the God depicted by the Quran is an imperfect representation of the one true God.

I have been asking what is depicted in the Quran or hadith that make you feel that way. Is it the fact they simply mention Mary in the Quran- excusing the part where allah/Mohammed/spirit talking to Mohammed says she is worshiped by Christians as part of the Trinity? Is it that the Quran mentions some OT prophets- excusing Islams list of prophets include/exclude others not accepted by Jews or Christians? How about when the Quran mentions Jesus as denying calling Himself God and saying an imposter was killed in His place; some truth there becasue they mention the name Jesus?

Of course I believe in the Trinity.

Who are you to conclude for Moslems their scripture is not exactly what they say it is which is the never changed, always perfect literal words of allah god since it was given to Mohammed?

You have made a number of claims based upon ‘your’ logic and ‘your’ reasoning which that Islam is imperfect but has some truth and Catholicism teaches most truth but has some imperfection in it. Is that how you define faith?

When Moslems pray, do you think they pray for you give up your belief in the Trinity and embrace the monotheism of Islam, but because they pray 5 times a day it is still a good thing? When they make a pilgrimage to Mekka to walk around the Kabba and kiss the black stone and throw pebbles at the pillars representing the devil, with the verses of the Quran running through their mind in an effort to be devout to allah of the Quran is a piety you think godly?

Is it just becasue you think the average Moslem who smiles and take care of their kids and are polite must share the same religious value from the same god as you since you too smile and are polite because of your faith?

There are human characteristics as I have said before that Athiests and others do which are not contingent upon religion, but that is all you have offered as support for a similarity for allah god and God. Is that how you define logic and reason?

 

[Verisimilitude]

If islam was evidently evil, it would have failed for ensnare a good many righteous people.

He said: “Seest Thou? this is the one whom Thou hast honoured above me! If Thou wilt but respite me to the Day of Judgment, I will surely bring his descendants under my sway - all but a few!”
( سورة الإسراء , Al-Isra, Chapter #17, Verse #62)

Mark 13:22
for false Christs and false prophets will arise, and will show signs and wonders, in order to lead astray, if possible, the elect.

 

[inJESUS]

Digressions aside, this is a good topic. I often highlighted between Islam as a “religion” and Islam as a political ideology. I don’t care if Abu Bakr or Umar used to wash their feet to pray, or whether they drank camel urine, or whether they abstained from this or that meat, or whether they prayed 3 or 5 times. But i care about the mass slaughter of Muhammad’s caliphs in the name of Allah to spread Islam .

 

[tomarin]

Not normally? That leaves the impression sometimes you do.

Not really, no. But what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

The ‘similarities’ of God commanding ancient Jews to take the Promised Land by war has something similar to Moslems making Arabia all for Islam during Mohammeds time and expanding that religion by war to all lands currently called Islamic since his death; is this the similarity you see: the glimmer of truth in Islam since they share a quality of war as they share a quality of respecting elders and parents?

I wasn’t thinking of war; but aren’t you making my argument for me here?

I have been asking what is depicted in the Quran or hadith that make you feel that way. Is it the fact they simply mention Mary in the Quran- excusing the part where allah/Mohammed/spirit talking to Mohammed says she is worshiped by Christians as part of the Trinity? Is it that the Quran mentions some OT prophets- excusing Islams list of prophets include/exclude others not accepted by Jews or Christians? How about when the Quran mentions Jesus as denying calling Himself God and saying an imposter was killed in His place; some truth there becasue they mention the name Jesus?

Again, I think you’re making my argument for me.

Who are you to conclude for Moslems their scripture is not exactly what they say it is which is the never changed, always perfect literal words of allah god since it was given to Mohammed?

I’m a Christian, the adherent of another religion entirely. If I don’t follow their religion I am not obligated to accept its claims.

I think you must think that Islam and Christianity are mirror opposites of one another and that you cannot recognize any truth or goodness in the one without invalidating the other (hence the insinuations that I’m not “really” Catholic – hey, I must not be since I found something positive to say about this rival religion.). But that’s a false dichotomy. I don’t believe Islam – but I believe in monotheism. Because I’m a Christian.

It’s absurd to argue that Islam holds absolutely no truth because they are monotheists. I simply don’t know how many new ways I can think of to say this. I wish you would address this point directly because this is the crux of my counter-argument.

You have made a number of claims based upon ‘your’ logic and ‘your’ reasoning which that Islam is imperfect but has some truth and Catholicism teaches most truth but has some imperfection in it. Is that how you define faith?

It’s not “my” logic; it’s universal and free for everyone. I would never phrase the part about Catholicism having some imperfections; that’s a distortion of what I said.

When Moslems pray, do you think they pray for you give up your belief in the Trinity and embrace the monotheism of Islam, but because they pray 5 times a day it is still a good thing?

I think regular prayer is a good thing. Don’t you?

When they make a pilgrimage to Mekka to walk around the Kabba and kiss the black stone and throw pebbles at the pillars representing the devil, with the verses of the Quran running through their mind in an effort to be devout to allah of the Quran is a piety you think godly?

I don’t think there’s anything intrinsically wrong with a pilgrimage, no. Of course you describe it in exotic and emotional language with words like “black,” “devil” and “rock” thrown in, so naturally it’s not a pretty picture you paint. I’m sure it could be described in more neutral or even reverent language.

Is it just becasue you think the average Moslem who smiles and take care of their kids and are polite must share the same religious value from the same god as you since you too smile and are polite because of your faith?

There are human characteristics as I have said before that Athiests and others do which are not contingent upon religion, but that is all you have offered as support for a similarity for allah god and God. Is that how you define logic and reason?

I’m familiar with the concept of natural virtue. No, it’s the resemblances to Christianity alone that make me think it has some good qualities. I know there are nice people to be found everywhere.

 

[R_not]

Digressions aside, this is a good topic. I often highlighted between Islam as a “religion” and Islam as a political ideology. I don’t care if Abu Bakr or Umar used to wash their feet to pray, or whether they drank camel urine, or whether they abstained from this or that meat, or whether they prayed 3 or 5 times. But i care about the mass slaughter of Muhammad’s caliphs in the name of Allah to spread Islam .

political islam. The thing with political islam is that there are so many clerics who are its leaders. Gee, I wonder why? It couldn’t be that koran, or the base teachings of islam, could it?!

 

[Verisimilitude]

Not really, no. But what does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

It has to do with your logic and reasoning, what is true and what is not.

I wasn’t thinking of war; but aren’t you making my argument for me here?

Only if you misunderstand the OT.

Again, I think you’re making my argument for me.

Then I think you do misunderstand the OT and maybe the NT.

I’m a Christian, the adherent of another religion entirely. If I don’t follow their religion I am not obligated to accept its claims.

I am a Catholic Christian and make the distinction from just Christian as many Christians embrace a ‘truth’ different than that as the Catholic Church such as abortion, homosexuality, women priests…, and for the same reasons I make the distinctions regarding Islam as a fully illigitimate religion as iit regards the same god as that of God.

I think you must think that Islam and Christianity are mirror opposites of one another and that you cannot recognize any truth or goodness in the one without invalidating the other (hence the insinuations that I’m not “really” Catholic – hey, I must not be since I found something positive to say about this rival religion.). But that’s a false dichotomy. I don’t believe Islam – but I believe in monotheism. Because I’m a Christian.

Islam and Catholicism are mirror opposites; isn’t that what I have been saying? As far as your personal faith goes I have only noted what you yourself have said, just as I note what the Quran and hadith say. You seem to have a problem with that concept of logic and reason using such documents and preferring conjecture and hyperbole.

It’s absurd to argue that Islam holds absolutely no truth because they are monotheists. I simply don’t know how many new ways I can think of to say this. I wish you would address this point directly because this is the crux of my counter-argument.

I do not argue the oneness of God. I argue what god Islam follows. You think by nature of ‘one’ must mean they are the same ‘one’. I do not and have given evidence as to why.

It’s not “my” logic; it’s universal and free for everyone. I would never phrase the part about Catholicism having some imperfections; that’s a distortion of what I said.

You offered an example of a wrong teaching:

I would also say the converse is true: if Christianity teaches something that is not good (say, the guilt of the Jews for Jesus’ death) then it deserves criticism, and the same is true for Islam. So there’s no double standard on my side.

You gave examples of changing Doctrine, or at least your understanding of it has changed:

I don’t think it teaches things that are not good now, but arguably in the past it did. How about the strong statements of “outside the Church there is no salvation” issued by Popes in the past? We still believe that is true but not in exactly the same way. There are loopholes now, so that one cannot say without hesitation today that say, Anne Frank woke up in Hell after she was executed. God’s mercy is seen as too great to be bound by human intellect.

I think regular prayer is a good thing. Don’t you?

Depends on what you pray for.

I don’t think there’s anything intrinsically wrong with a pilgrimage, no. Of course you describe it in exotic and emotional language with words like “black,” “devil” and “rock” thrown in, so naturally it’s not a pretty picture you paint. I’m sure it could be described in more neutral or even reverent language.

You are free to find the most pro-Islamic description of it you like- in fact please do so since you think I am antoagonistic to Islam without cause.

I’m familiar with the concept of natural virtue. No, it’s the resemblances to Christianity alone that make me think it has some good qualities. I know there are nice people to be found everywhere.

We are back again- what similarities, what good qualities? I say they are almost always qualified and that does not bother you. A qualified similarity and a qualified good are not the same at all.

 

[chrisse]

Digressions aside, this is a good topic. I often highlighted between Islam as a “religion” and Islam as a political ideology. I don’t care if Abu Bakr or Umar used to wash their feet to pray, or whether they drank camel urine, or whether they abstained from this or that meat, or whether they prayed 3 or 5 times. But i care about the mass slaughter of Muhammad’s caliphs in the name of Allah to spread Islam .

Absolutely agree. The purely religious, ie personal spiritual experience of a muslim with allah, is his/her own business. However, Mohammed as a person can be evaluated and criticised, and the non-religious aspects of Islam (the majority of the islamic doctrine) MUST be evaluated and given critical analysis.

 

[tomarin]

It has to do with your logic and reasoning, what is true and what is not.

Or is it simply an attempt to discredit my argument by discrediting me, in other words an ad hominem attack?

Islam and Catholicism are mirror opposites; isn’t that what I have been saying?

You’ve been saying it, and I’ve been challenging it. Wouldn’t the worship of satan, or polytheism be the opposite of Christianity (or Islam for that matter)?

As far as your personal faith goes I have only noted what you yourself have said,

You’ve been doing more than that – you’ve been implying that there is something heretical or dissenting about my opinions. You want to make the argument about me, not the issue at hand. It won’t work if only because I haven’t said anything that is unorthodox or gives you the right to use this underhanded tactic.

just as I note what the Quran and hadith say. You seem to have a problem with that concept of logic and reason using such documents and preferring conjecture and hyperbole.

Well, you’ve never explained why the only credible evidence has to be limited to hadiths or sura. But I’ll play along: How about “there is no compulsion in religion”. That’s surely good. Or how about the prohibition on drinking (that must be in the Quran somewhere). Some people who are opposed to drinking such as Prohibitionists would regard that as objectively good.

I do not argue the oneness of God. I argue what god Islam follows. You think by nature of ‘one’ must mean they are the same ‘one’. I do not and have given evidence as to why.

This is where I think you’re talking non-sense. The “islamic god” doesn’t exist. What exists in Islam is an imperfect representation of the one true God (although a more truthful one than that found in polytheistic religions).

It’s nonsense because you are saying that everything Islam teaches is false. Part of Islam is the belief that God is one. As Christians we believe God is one. Therefore that must be true. Therefore that part of Islam must be true. Therefore your conclusion is false.

You gave examples of changing Doctrine, or at least your understanding of it has changed:

No, not my understanding, the Church’s understanding. That’s an orthodox statement of what the Church teaches about herself: the doctrines don’t change but the understanding of them may become more nuanced over time.

 

[planten]

**
I had been describing Allah, The Lord of all things (A’alameen), all states.

1. The next attribute is Al-Rehmaan. That is an attribute of Allah’s mercy. That mercy covers all living things, man, beast, plants, animals. That mercy is for all living bodies, regardless of whether they are believing in God or not. They may be Hindu or Budhists or christians or Muslims or atheists or animals. There is mercy of Allah for all of them regardless of whether they believe or not, whether they do any good deed. This mercy is free for all. Consider the Sun that shines for every one and the rain that comes for all.

Please note these living bodies are benefitetd by the attribute Rabb too.

1. The next attribute of Allah is Al-Raheem. This attribute concerns mankind only, the mankind who believe in God and they do some deeds. For them is a special mercy. It is only for the believing mankind. Other animals are not covered by this mercy of Allah. The Atheists are also not covered by this mercy.

This mercy is concerned with the praying people only, they may be Hindus or Christians or Jews or Muslims etc…

Please remember that this group of believers get share of love and mercy of Allah due to the attribute Rabb and Rehman too. So the believers get benefit from their Lord (Rabb) and from the attribute Rehman and from the attribute Raheem.

1. Al-maalik. The Master, the owner. Allah is the Master, the owner. It is said that He is the Master of the day of judgement. He is not the judge of the day of judgement. He is the Master. There is a clear difference between judge and Master.

A judge is given a law to follow and to decide the matters according to the law given to them. The Master is not bound by that restriction because He is the Master.

This attribute of Allah is very special for the very special people, the saints, the prophets and messengers of Allah only. i.e. High level believers. Allah will reward them as He will like, no limits, no bounds.

These people are benefitted by all the earlier attributes of Allah, i.e. The Rabb, Al-Rehman, Al-Raheem.

So please note that the concept of God in Islam is very wide and comprehensive covering his LOve and Mercy for all the creation. One name (attribute) of Allah is Al-Wadood i.e. The One who loves.**

 

[planten]

LOL.
Mischief can be anything from brewing beer and making spicy pork sausages to prosyletising a “false” religion and abusing the prophet of islam.

**algebra, How could you be ignorant to some wise steps. Here is an important superior rule of Islam which is not known to you. What you have just written above is a fallacy, a major defect in your argument. But before I accuse you, it is necessary to inform you about the reason. So Please note:

Islam does not permit bad deeds which are harmful for the public, for the society. It not only stops people from indulging in those harmful acts but also tries to stop the ways which may lead the mankind to indulge (to fall a prey ) to those bad deeds.

The Islamic purdah (veil) is a good example.

Another example: It is not allowed to drink (alcohol). The Shariah not only disallows drinking but it also closes the paths which lead (encourage) people to drinking… So there will be no pubs.This is a very important special gift of the Muslim way of life.
It would be useless to ban drinking and open wine shops in the city. Please, can you see these things?

If flesh of swine is forbidden then the system will stop everything which may lead to eating pork.

If sex outside marriage is forbidden then Islam will not allow sex houses, brothels.

It is not difficult to understand these wise steps, rules.

These things are necessary. Guards and protective measures are necessary. Jesus had been talking about his sheep. algebra, did you ever see any group of sheep left wandering at the mercy of the wolves?

I have described just one super rule of Islam here now. Time permitting I shall introduce another important good super rule of Quran later.**