A Byzantine Catholic visiting Orthodox church

[Byz_Guy]

I believe that my priest does commune Coptic Orthodox, but I don’t know more beyond that.

I know of an OCA parish where a Coptic Orthodox family are communed. However, it required the blessing of both the Coptic Orthodox Bishop and the OCA Bishop beforehand.

 

[5Loaves]

I know of an OCA parish where a Coptic Orthodox family are communed. However, it required the blessing of both the Coptic Orthodox Bishop and the OCA Bishop beforehand.

I have a Coptic Orthodox friend who regularly receives Eucharist at the OCA and the Greek Orthodox and, when s/he comes to my ECC parish, receives with us also. Each of the priests, and Metropolitan, involved knows this is a Coptic Orthodox Christian.

When an Orthodox Christian presents him/herself for Eucharist at my ECC parish they are given Eucharist. There is nothing we do that encourages it. Canon law in the Catholic Church allows it. I’m not sure it helps relations, but it’s basically up to the Orthodox person to decide for themselves, knowing what the teaching of their Church is on this. We do fairly frequently have Orthodox come to Liturgy with us. Some don’t go up to receive Communion but others, most I think, do.

 

[BtR]

I know of an OCA parish where a Coptic Orthodox family are communed. However, it required the blessing of both the Coptic Orthodox Bishop and the OCA Bishop beforehand.

This. There is also several statements signed by various EO and OO autocephalous churches that have recognized those churches as having the same Orthodox faith. Essentially, they have re-established communion. This hasn’t gained acceptance in the whole Church yet, but I suspect that it will.

The problem with communing Catholics is that there is no such communion because there is no unity of faith.

I have a Coptic Orthodox friend who regularly receives Eucharist at the OCA and the Greek Orthodox and, when s/he comes to my ECC parish, receives with us also. Each of the priests, and Metropolitan, involved knows this is a Coptic Orthodox Christian.

When an Orthodox Christian presents him/herself for Eucharist at my ECC parish they are given Eucharist. There is nothing we do that encourages it. Canon law in the Catholic Church allows it. I’m not sure it helps relations, but it’s basically up to the Orthodox person to decide for themselves, knowing what the teaching of their Church is on this. We do fairly frequently have Orthodox come to Liturgy with us. Some don’t go up to receive Communion but others, most I think, do.

That is a problem for the Coptic Church to handle, since they’re in such a weird position right now, communing regularly with some EO and not with others. I do not know the current state of relations between the Copts and the RCs, though I would think it would be similar to ours. Go figure.

By Catholic canon law allowing it, it’s encouraged. By partaking Catholic sacraments, they excommunicate themselves from us. Their priest may still be communing them, either not knowing or (God forbid) with his knowledge. If the latter, may the Lord have mercy on him.

 

[Hesychios]

I know of an OCA parish where a Coptic Orthodox family are communed. However, it required the blessing of both the Coptic Orthodox Bishop and the OCA Bishop beforehand.

As a greeter/doorkeeper I would occasionally encounter people like that, I would always refer them to the priest personally.

I do know of one Ethiopean Orthodox family that wanted to have their son baptized, and father referred them to the local Coptic Orthodox parish in the area. I can’t remember if they had been previously aware of the Coptic parish, but it seemed like they were satisfied with the idea of baptizing in the Orthodox church.

My impression is that the idea was not to poach on the other church’s membership, but I never had a conversation with father on the matter.

 

[Schieffelin]

Well I am certainly learning a lot from all of you posters here I thought that it was up to the Orthodox priest to decide whether I could commune with them, but apparently that is highly controversial, so I won’t even try.

I think I’m at a crossroads with deciding how to practice my faith. The Ruthenian parish is kind of far and so extremely Latinized that I was discouraged (no offence to any of you). Is Latinization an issue in the Orthodox churches as well? I was surprised to see that the Greek Orthodox church has pews in the pictures on their website.
The local Ukrainian Catholic separates the English-speaking community from the Ukrainians (and the English Divine Liturgy is on Saturday nights instead of Sunday) which I’m not a fan of.

I probably shouldn’t be complaining with all of these options. I’m just missing my old Melkite community where everything seemed perfect

 

[5Loaves]

As a greeter/doorkeeper I would occasionally encounter people like that, I would always refer them to the priest personally.

I’ve had visitors, or parishioners with a visiting friend, approach me and say they’re Orthodox and can they receive Eucharist. If clergy are still floating around I’ll get the clergy to meet and speak with the person. Usually it’s the case DL is about to start and no clergy are free. I will explain that while a Catholic priest may commune an Orthodox Christian, but the Orthodox clergy do not normally permit their faithful to receive any sacraments from our clergy. I haven’t had anyone, not that there have been that many period, act upset at all. I don’t remember who has or has not then gone up. I think not gone up.

More often than not when an Orthodox Christian comes they don’t ask, they just receive, or don’t. The bottom line is I think we are compelled to make it clear in a friendly way when we are asked what the teaching is both for Catholic and Orthodox, and clear that we are in no way saying that our Churches are in communion because the sad reality is that of course we are not.

I guess I have felt for myself that even though I have an intimate relationship with a particular Orthodox parish and am well known as a frequent attender a couple at a handful of Orthodox places- one is a parish, one is the Orthodox Christian Fellowship (the “Newman Center” for Orthodox) why would I want to receive the Holy Mysteries there when in fact our Churches are not in communion? I feel like it is appropriate that I suffer the relative sadness, and they often feel sad as well I’m sure, of not going to Fr S for confession or Met N for Eucharist. They are spiritual fathers for me but in the end we are simply not in communion. God willing the day will come, but I’m not expecting it in my own lifetime.

 

[5Loaves]

Well I am certainly learning a lot from all of you posters here I thought that it was up to the Orthodox priest to decide whether I could commune with them, but apparently that is highly controversial, so I won’t even try.

I think I’m at a crossroads with deciding how to practice my faith. The Ruthenian parish is kind of far and so extremely Latinized that I was discouraged (no offence to any of you). Is Latinization an issue in the Orthodox churches as well? I was surprised to see that the Greek Orthodox church has pews in the pictures on their website.
The local Ukrainian Catholic separates the English-speaking community from the Ukrainians (and the English Divine Liturgy is on Saturday nights instead of Sunday) which I’m not a fan of.

I probably shouldn’t be complaining with all of these options. I’m just missing my old Melkite community where everything seemed perfect

I had no idea before I became active here on CAF how incredibly fortunate I am with my parish. Believe me we have our problems, and some have been really major. But our orthodoxy is not one of those. I know from old photos that when the Miracle-Working Icon of Our Lady of Kazan resided in our parish there was actually a statue of the Mother of God in the temple , at least during the taking of the photos. That would be unheard of these days. Even then there were certainly no pews. (Pews, and organs, are standard items in the Greek Orthodox Churches in America.)

I feel for you. I can’t imagine what I would do if our parish were to close. I know I’d be spending even more time than I now do in an Orthodox temple. We Eastern Catholics really do feel the pain of the separation of our Churches…

 

[Hesychios]

Is Latinization an issue in the Orthodox churches as well? I was surprised to see that the Greek Orthodox church has pews in the pictures on their website.

Yes, there are Latinizations in Orthodox churches, from what I can tell most particularly in ACROD and to some extent the Ukrainian Orthodox, and I attribute that to the fact that they had both been in the Union* for a time.

Pews are not a Latinization, they are more appropriately considered a westernization/Protestantization and are really harmful to the practice of temple worship. It is my biggest beef with the Greek Orthodox and Serbian Orthodox in my area.

A parish without a screen or at least a curtain would be a Latinization. Any parish that claims it cannot afford an iconostasis but installs pews without even giving it a second thought deserves all the problems it gets.

 

[paglione]

Hi everyone,

Is it OK for an Eastern Catholic to partake in Orthodox services sometimes? We just moved to a new city and it’s difficult to get to the Byzantine Catholic church, especially during the week. I would really like to attend pre-sanctified at the Greek Orthodox church down the street.

Are they going to think I’m crazy or presumptuous if I come in as a Catholic and ask to worship with them? And will I be able to receive the Holy Mysteries?

I’m very sad because the Byzantine parish is far, and quite honestly somewhat lukewarm anyway. My husband already likes Roman Catholic better (we were both raised Roman) and he’s perfectly happy to be part of the Roman parish, but that’s not where my heart is

February 25, 2012
From: paglione
Dear Schieffelin,
I think I know how you feel about preferring the Divine Liturgy to the Latin rite Mass.
I have been a Latin rite Catholic all of my life but I have recently been strongly attracted to the Divine Liturgy of the Byzantine rite. I miss it when I am at Mass in the Latin rite.
The strong attraction for me, I think, is the beauty of the Divine Liturgy and the way in which the faithful participate in the Liturgy by chanting the responses with the priest instead of listening to the priest say the prayers of the Mass in n the Latin rite. The faithful play much more of a role in the Divine Liturgy than the faithful do in Latin rite Mass.
Furthermore, I have tried to get my Latin rite pastor to speak from the pulpit about other Catholic rites in communion with Rome and aboutl the universality of the Catholic Church.
So far there has been no interest. Someone recently asked me in church who The Theotokos was. Apparently Latin rite Catholics do not even understand the Greek word for the holy Mother of God.
The Divine Liturgy of the Orthodox Church is much the same as the Divine Liturgy of the Byzantine Church. The separation of churches (e.g., church politics) is offensive to God and is a sin against God. And it must end.
(Signed) paglione

 

[countertenor]

I know of an OCA parish where a Coptic Orthodox family are communed. However, it required the blessing of both the Coptic Orthodox Bishop and the OCA Bishop beforehand.

Are you talking about St. Gabriel’s?

 

[Schieffelin]

I had no idea before I became active here on CAF how incredibly fortunate I am with my parish. Believe me we have our problems, and some have been really major. But our orthodoxy is not one of those. I know from old photos that when the Miracle-Working Icon of Our Lady of Kazan resided in our parish there was actually a statue of the Mother of God in the temple , at least during the taking of the photos. That would be unheard of these days. Even then there were certainly no pews. (Pews, and organs, are standard items in the Greek Orthodox Churches in America.)

I feel for you. I can’t imagine what I would do if our parish were to close. I know I’d be spending even more time than I now do in an Orthodox temple. We Eastern Catholics really do feel the pain of the separation of our Churches.…

This is so true. I took for granted how wonderful the first two Eastern churches I was involved in were. Now I’m getting a little dose of reality. All the more reason to keep praying I suppose!

 

[Schieffelin]

Yes, there are Latinizations in Orthodox churches, from what I can tell most particularly in ACROD and to some extent the Ukrainian Orthodox, and I attribute that to the fact that they had both been in the Union* for a time.

Pews are not a Latinization, they are more appropriately considered a westernization/Protestantization and are really harmful to the practice of temple worship. It is my biggest beef with the Greek Orthodox and Serbian Orthodox in my area.

A parish without a screen or at least a curtain would be a Latinization. Any parish that claims it cannot afford an iconostasis but installs pews without even giving it a second thought deserves all the problems it gets.

Thank you for helping me with my terms. The pews actually bother me more than anything else I’ve seen. Especially when it comes to Lenten liturgies–no prostrations is so awful to me! I want to experience the fullness of the liturgy and it’s not even close to the same when those pews are in the way.

 

[Schieffelin]

February 25, 2012
From: paglione
Dear Schieffelin,
I think I know how you feel about preferring the Divine Liturgy to the Latin rite Mass.
I have been a Latin rite Catholic all of my life but I have recently been strongly attracted to the Divine Liturgy of the Byzantine rite. I miss it when I am at Mass in the Latin rite.
The strong attraction for me, I think, is the beauty of the Divine Liturgy and the way in which the faithful participate in the Liturgy by chanting the responses with the priest instead of listening to the priest say the prayers of the Mass in n the Latin rite. The faithful play much more of a role in the Divine Liturgy than the faithful do in Latin rite Mass.
Furthermore, I have tried to get my Latin rite pastor to speak from the pulpit about other Catholic rites in communion with Rome and aboutl the universality of the Catholic Church.
So far there has been no interest. Someone recently asked me in church who The Theotokos was. Apparently Latin rite Catholics do not even understand the Greek word for the holy Mother of God.
The Divine Liturgy of the Orthodox Church is much the same as the Divine Liturgy of the Byzantine Church. The separation of churches (e.g., church politics) is offensive to God and is a sin against God. And it must end.
(Signed) paglione

Yeah, I started practicing as a Byzantine Catholic about six years ago and it gradually became more and more difficult for me to return to the Latin rite. I was so tired of all the arguments about the mass and I felt so much more at home in the East.
The level of ignorance among Roman Catholics is appalling (not that the laity are really at fault). I’m sure it’s a huge contributor to why there is still division between the Catholics and Orthodox.