a-call-for-ecuminical-dialogue-between-catholics-and-protestants

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pablope said:
Well…let me see…how can we have a dialogue with you…when in one of your posts…you said that the discussion should be limited to Scripture alone in your proposal for a debate?
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Yes. The change in demand on this thread is quite curious.
 
Christian_Unity said:
Yep, each thread takes a life of its own. I think that was a response to certain Catholics who seem to be very aggressive in attacking my particular flavor of Christianity
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There was no more aggression on the part of Catholics than was offered by non-Catholics on that thread, CU.
 
Christian_Unity said:
I was reading somewhere on the Internet that there are different Catholic views of authority of Sacred Scripture verses Sacred tradition. Do some Catholics have a higher view of Sacred Scripture than Sacred tradition? Or do Catholics believe Sacred Scripture is equal to Sacred tradition? We both agree that Sacred Scripture is God-breathed, but how does Sacred oral and written tradition compare to Sacred Scripture in that sense and to overall authority?
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Best answer is from Catholic Apologist Jimmy Akin:

The Catholic Church teaches that the Bible alone is the inspired word of God, where inspired refers to the action of the Holy Spirit in guiding the human authors to write what God wanted written, in the precise way he wanted it written. Sacred Tradition, though also the word of God, does not come to us in an inspired (or “God-breathed”) form (cf. 2 Pet. 3:16). Theologians talk about sacred Tradition being “assisted” by the Holy Spirit in the life of the Church, to be sure, as they do the teaching ministry or magisterium of the Church. But only Scripture has God as its primary author and in that sense only Scripture is divinely inspired.
 
PRmerger said:
Best answer is from Catholic Apologist Jimmy Akin:

The Catholic Church teaches that the Bible alone is the inspired word of God, where inspired refers to the action of the Holy Spirit in guiding the human authors to write what God wanted written, in the precise way he wanted it written. Sacred Tradition, though also the word of God, does not come to us in an inspired (or “God-breathed”) form (cf. 2 Pet. 3:16). Theologians talk about sacred Tradition being “assisted” by the Holy Spirit in the life of the Church, to be sure, as they do the teaching ministry or magisterium of the Church. But only Scripture has God as its primary author and in that sense only Scripture is divinely inspired.
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Okay, when I read this… it seems Sacred Scripture is held higher than Sacred Tradition for some Catholics like Akin. Maybe Protestant converts to the Catholic Faith have a higher view of Sacred Scripture over Sacred Tradition? What would Scott Hahn say about this particular issue? Where does Sacred Tradition stop and tradition begins in the Catholic Faith. I know there are a wide range of beliefs in the Catholic Faith when something is not declared dogma, but there are allowable beliefs under the Catholic umbrella for many issues. For instance, would Mary being co-redemptive be considered tradition and not Sacred Tradition?
 
Christian_Unity said:
Okay, when I read this… it seems Sacred Scripture is held higher than Sacred Tradition for some Catholics like Akin.
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I don’t think Akin, or the Catholic Church, attempts to make one supreme or the other. (Why would we do that?). Rather, we proclaim that “both Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture are to be accepted and venerated with the same sense of loyalty and reverence”–Dei Verbum.

As the Catholic mantra goes: Totum in Scriptura, Totum in Traditione.
(All is in Scripture, all is in Tradition.)
 
Christian_Unity said:
Yep, each thread takes a life of its own. I think that was a response to certain Catholics who seem to be very aggressive in attacking my particular flavor of Christianity.
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I would assume that I am one such Catholic in your opinion. I would like to state, again, that I am not attacking your opinions, only your misrepresentation of the facts. I have said many times that I agree that we all have to work together, but you cannot write off the fundamental differences between our faiths as unimportant.
 
Christian_Unity said:
For instance, would Mary being co-redemptive be considered tradition and not Sacred Tradition?
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I don’t know the answer to this. 🤷

To me, it’s an unimportant distinction, but am interested to see the discussion that follows.
 
PRmerger said:
There was no more aggression on the part of Catholics than was offered by non-Catholics on that thread, CU.
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I think the Mad doctor wanted a good challenge and theological fight. I think I got on his bad side regarding my pot views. I guess I don’t mind debating the very difficult issues on a more intense level on those particular threads which seem quite heated right now. Sometimes fire is good for refinement… iron sharpening iron kind of thing. Okay, when time permits, I don’t mind debating the forensic and predestination threads with more passion and fire. Let’s keep this particular thread very peaceful… with a push for education and unity as our mutual goal.

:slapfight: for the Forensic and predestination threads. :blackeye:

:hug1: for the ecumenical diaglogue between Catholics and Protestants thread. :grouphug:
 
Christian_Unity said:
Let’s just keep this an open thread to discuss anything that you would like. First of all, we are all siblings in Christ who have the same Heavenly Father. Would you agree with that statement?
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I didn’t notice where you go to Church to worship God. I have some questions:
  1. What Protestant Church do you worship God at and what does your Church teach about how Muslims, Jews, Hindus and Buddhists attain salvation or if they can’t.
  2. What does your Church teach about Catholics? Does your Protestant church teach its members that we Catholics are your brothers and sisters in Christ?
  3. How often does your Church celebrate communion and who distributes the bread and wine and what do you do with the bread and wine that remains?
 
PRmerger said:
I don’t know the answer to this. 🤷

To me, it’s an unimportant distinction, but am interested to see the discussion that follows.
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It’s tough to understand Sacred Tradition since we both believe that the Faith was once for all delivered to the Saints in the first century. I know the church grows in understanding over time to understand the Faith. So, if something becomes new Sacred Tradition down the road, how does that work since the Faith was once for all delivered to the Saints in the first century? Either Mary is a co-redemptive with Christ or she is not… regardless of this truth being declared Sacred Tradition or simply just being tradition. It’s kind of like the Bible in the sense that it has always been God breathed revelation from above before any official Church council declared it to be with an official cannon.
 
Christian_Unity said:
I think the Mad doctor wanted a good challenge and theological fight. I think I got on his bad side regarding my pot views. I guess I don’t mind debating the very difficult issues on a more intense level on those particular threads which seem quite heated right now. Sometimes fire is good for refinement… iron sharpening iron kind of thing. Okay, when time permits, I don’t mind debating the forensic and predestination threads with more passion and fire. Let’s keep this particular thread very peaceful… with a push for education and unity as our mutual goal.

:slapfight: for the Forensic and predestination threads. :blackeye:

:hug1: for the ecumenical diaglogue between Catholics and Protestants thread. :grouphug:
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Yeah. That’s all well and good.

Except, CU, I say this with gentle admonishment: you don’t get to decide when and where the “passion and fire” appetizer is distributed and when the “peace and hugs” appetizer is distributed.

If you eat from both dishes (which you seem to do), then you ought not object to others doing the same.

Your posting history, to my estimation, is to claim to be all “peace and hugs”, yet providing posts that are, indeed, “passion and fire”, and then expressing indignation when “passion and fire” are returned to you.

This is especially egregious, given your purported desire for “Christian unity.”
 
peace2u2 said:
I didn’t notice where you go to Church to worship God. I have some questions:
  1. What Protestant Church do you worship God at and what does your Church teach about how Muslims, Jews, Hindus and Buddhists attain salvation or if they can’t.
  2. What does your Church teach about Catholics? Does your Protestant church teach its members that we Catholics are your brothers and sisters in Christ?
  3. How often does your Church celebrate communion and who distributes the bread and wine and what do you do with the bread and wine that remains?
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I’ve worshipped at many different Protestant churches over time, some had official membership and others did not. I have had membership and leadership roles in some of these Protestant churches too. I also worshipped at Catholic churches too over the years. I have read the CCC about Islam and other non-Christian religions which is quite interesting. I think that issue is best not to have a dogmatic conclusion, but I do believe the gospel needs to be proclaimed throughout the earth. The communion question depends on which church that I am attending. Protestants are very mixed on views of communion in purpose and duration. Protestant churches are very mixed about receiving Catholics as siblings in Christ too. I don’t really go by what my pastor believes on these more difficult issues. I hope that answers your questions, but if not please let me know and we can try again.
 
PRmerger said:
Yeah. That’s all well and good.

Except, CU, I say this with gentle admonishment: you don’t get to decide when and where the “passion and fire” appetizer is distributed and when the “peace and hugs” appetizer is distributed.

If you eat from both dishes (which you seem to do), then you ought not object to others doing the same.

Your posting history, to my estimation, is to claim to be all “peace and hugs”, yet providing posts that are, indeed, “passion and fire”, and then expressing indignation when “passion and fire” are returned to you.

This is especially egregious, given your purported desire for “Christian unity.”
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Well you know I’m not Catholic, so it’s not easy to fellowship on a Catholic Forum site. I work at home on a computer, so Forum sites like these keep my workday interesting. Ecumenicism is defintely a juggling act, keeping to ones own conviction, yet bending to extend a person’s circle of fellowship. It’s much easier to do a Catholic Protestant Fellowship on Facebook since I know most on there as personal friends.

:juggle:
 
Christian_Unity said:
So, if something becomes new Sacred Tradition down the road, how does that work since the Faith was once for all delivered to the Saints in the first century?
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There is nothing that is new under the sun, CU. There is no new doctrine or dogma.

Our understanding may be refined, but the revelation has been given, once for all.

So if Mary is indeed given the title of Co-Redemtrix, then it is only a refinement of our Mariology.

Take this example, CU:

It has been the “constant teaching” in our house that when the kids come home from school they are to put all their school supplies away.

Despite the fact that they have been doing this every school day for 5-15 years, every once in a while we need to have a “family meeting” to pronounce, declare and define exactly who should be doing which job and how it is to be done. (Note: I try to ignore their incredulous looks that say, “What? We’re supposed to hang up our backpacks again this year?” or “What? You’ve never said that we had to take off our uniforms and hang them up!” )

At this council we recall what’s been done in the past, review the current norms and define again exactly what’s the expectation. Sometimes the kids complain that we are “making up new rules”, claiming we’ve “never done it this way before” when in actuality we are just pronouncing, declaring and defining a standard norm of our family.

I also might add in this metaphor that sometimes things “come up” that did not need defining earlier, but because of the development of our family requires further refinement.

Example: for the first 4 years of my children’s schooling they did not use a backpack.

Thus, when they started in the upper grades coming home and throwing their backpacks on the floor we had to have a “council” to announce: ALL BACKPACKS NEED TO BE HUNG ON THEIR RESPECTIVE HOOKS.

Now, this is not a new command. The ever-present command was: ALL SCHOOL SUPPLIES NEED TO BE PUT AWAY WHEN YOU COME HOME.

However, as there were no backpacks for the first 4 years, there was no need to say, “And that includes backpacks, of course!”

Now, they can try (and they did!) to say, “Hey, that never was a rule before!”

But we, of course, are too smart for them. 😃
 
Christian_Unity said:
Well you know I’m not Catholic, so it’s not easy to fellowship on a Catholic Forum site. I work at home on a computer, so Forum sites like these keep my workday interesting. Ecumenicism is defintely a juggling act, keeping to ones own conviction, yet bending to extend a person’s circle of fellowship. It’s much easier to do a Catholic Protestant Fellowship on Facebook since I know most on there as personal friends.

:juggle:
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Since you work at home and have access to the internet, this is an interesting website that you might enjoy:

whyimcatholic.com/

Its also very ecuminical in dialogue.

You never mentioned which Protestant denomination you worship God at which is deceiving to say the least and since you couldn’t be honest in which Protestant church you worship at I suppose you have no plans to answer the other questions that I asked out of curiosity? So…

Peace 2 U in your journey home to heaven.
 
peace2u2 said:
Since you work at home and have access to the internet, this is an interesting website that you might enjoy:

whyimcatholic.com/

Its also very ecuminical in dialogue.

You never mentioned which Protestant denomination you worship God at which is deceiving to say the least and since you couldn’t be honest in which Protestant church you worship at I suppose you have no plans to answer the other questions that I asked out of curiosity? So…

Peace 2 U in your journey home to heaven.
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I have been worshipping at a non-denominational church but the Pastor is quite Reformed. I don’t believe the designation of non-denominational is true for any churches with those labels.
 
Ok… I hate be the stinky fly in the ointment, but I’ll play the part.

I would love to see more ecumenical dialog between Christians, but not at the expense of Christian truth, or at least not at the expense of watering down out faiths to fit the lowest common denomination.

There’s a lot of disagreement between my church and the Catholic church - and while I do see benefits to joining together, I also see the pit-falls of either church ‘watering down’ themselves.

I’ll give an example - Catholics spend a lot of time in love and devotion to Mary. This is a great thing especially for the poor. I’ve seen many good people at the edge of society who have gotten great comfort and a great opportunity to get to know god through their love of Mary. If the Catholic were to merge with us, would getting rid of this cherished part of their faith be diminished?

Another example from our point of view - Lutherans have great hymns and a liturgy that takes advantage of this gift from God. Not to be too rude but I don’t think I’d quite want to trade our songs for those of my Catholic friends. 🙂

I pray that we are united in one day, but a unity of our graces around Christ.
 
Christian_Unity said:
I was reading somewhere on the Internet that there are different Catholic views of authority of Sacred Scripture verses Sacred tradition. Do some Catholics have a higher view of Sacred Scripture than Sacred tradition? Or do Catholics believe Sacred Scripture is equal to Sacred tradition? We both agree that Sacred Scripture is God-breathed, but how does Sacred oral and written tradition compare to Sacred Scripture in that sense and to overall authority?
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It is a three legged stool…Sacred Tradition, Sacred Scripture and Magisterium…socrates58.blogspot.com/2006/11/three-legged-stool-of-catholic.html

What is sacred tradition…mark-shea.com/tradition.html
 
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