a-call-for-ecuminical-dialogue-between-catholics-and-protestants

[Christian_Unity]

Why can’t a Catholic believe in Apostolic Succession (Catholic Magestirum) and sacramental process of justification and hang out and fellowship with Protestant neighbors and family members who believe in sola scriptura and justification by faith alone?

When the Philippian jailer asked the Apostle Paul the question of what must we do to be saved, the Apostle did not respond with you must submit to the correct version of authority and have the right understanding of justification.

There are only two issues that prevent me from being Catholic

1. Agreeing on Apostolic Succession - Catholic Magestrium
2. Leaving the doctrine of justification by faith alone.

I agree with just about all of the other essential Christian doctrines which make us siblings in Christ. What are your thoughts?

 

[wisedom]

And yet here is an intolerant position you are proclaiming, wisedom.

Why is it that you get to espouse an intolerant position but judge others for doing so?

in my approach i pride myself in being universal and tolerant!

i do not JUDGE others but just state my views and read your views…

i fail to understand what ‘intolerant position i am proclaiming’, prmerger…

 

[Reuben_J]

Why can’t a Catholic believe in Apostolic Succession (Catholic Magestirum) and sacramental process of justification and hang out and fellowship with Protestant neighbors and family members who believe in sola scriptura and justification by faith alone?

What does that mean, CU? Literally? I don’t see any problem with that. We are not religious bigots. Nearly all Catholics can count among their friends who are Protestants.

OTOH, if you mean to live let live, I don’t see any problem either. In fact if you ask any Catholics, many of them will tell you that it is the Protestants who think that Catholics need to be saved. We hear common stories how some Protestants taunt and abuse Catholic just because of their faith.

When the Philippian jailer asked the Apostle Paul the question of what must we do to be saved, the Apostle did not respond with you must submit to the correct version of authority and have the right understanding of justification.

Because Paul IS the authority.

But after the apostles had left us, one cannot deny that much of their teaching has been nullified and fragmented. So we need to look for the authentic authority which has not been compromised through the years of history.

There are only two issues that prevent me from being Catholic

1. Agreeing on Apostolic Succession - Catholic Magestrium
2. Leaving the doctrine of justification by faith alone.

I agree with just about all of the other essential Christian doctrines which make us siblings in Christ. What are your thoughts?

Apostolic Succession means one is able to trace back to the apostles their authority. The Magisterium is the infallible teaching of the Catholic Church that also could be traced back to the apostles.

As has been clarified by some Protestants, especially the Lutherans, there seem to be no different in the belief of by faith alone with the Catholic Church. What is different is the wording.

As I see it, you still have problem with #1, and that could be the obstacle to communion. As for #2, that can be bridged because the different is merely superficial unless you are an OSAS Protestant.

 

[PRmerger]

i do not JUDGE others but just state my views and read your views…

Ah, very good, then. So when others state their views, even if it’s in contradiction to your views, you can see how they would, also, be only just stating their views, right?

You can’t have it both ways, wisedom. :nope:

You don’t get to express your views and object to others expressing their views as being intolerant or judgmental.

 

[wisedom]

Ah, very good, then. So when others state their views, even if it’s in contradiction to your views, you can see how they would, also, be only just stating their views, right?

You can’t have it both ways, wisedom. :nope:

You don’t get to express your views and object to others expressing their views as being intolerant or judgmental.

by intolerance i would have meant the intolerance of one religion of the beliefs of other religions,or the members of other religions, i.e. religious intolerance that is the prime cause of killing of God’s people by each other or one another, all in God’s -even in Jesus’- name!

any ecum. dialogue presupposes that such intolerance of others’ differences of beliefs, will be absent!

for one who believes in the Revelation of Truth, because that is what i seek, INTOLERANCE is an alien!

TRUTH IS OFTEN ECLIPSED, BUT IT CAN NEVER BE EXTINGUISHED - Livy

 

[peace2u2]

Ok… I hate be the stinky fly in the ointment, but I’ll play the part.

Catholics spend a lot of time in love and devotion to Mary. This is a great thing especially for the poor. I’ve seen many good people at the edge of society who have gotten great comfort and a great opportunity to get to know god through their love of Mary. If the Catholic were to merge with us, would getting rid of this cherished part of their faith be diminished?

Another example from our point of view - Lutherans have great hymns and a liturgy that takes advantage of this gift from God. Not to be too rude but I don’t think I’d quite want to trade our songs for those of my Catholic friends.

I pray that we are united in one day, but a unity of our graces around Christ.

Benjohnson, you state :

“Catholics spend a lot of time in love and devotion to Mary”

And, rightfully so. Apparently, God honored Mary above all other people, above all men and women and gave her the privilege and dignity of carrying the Word of God in the flesh within her womb. Did God find favor with Mary above all others? Apparently so.

See Scripture: Luke 1:26-35 where God sends the angel Gabriel to announce this amazing good news that God has found favor with her and is asking her to allow God, the almighty, the all-powerful God of the Universe to become a little baby in her womb!

Mary’s yes to God’s will in her life opened up the door of salvation to the world.

You also state that:

“you have seen many good people…get to know God thru their love of Mary”

Many? How about the whole world got to know God thru Mary! God became Man and stepped into your world for no other reason than to share His life with you. Jesus desired to share His mother with the world!

Perhaps today you will offer up praise and thanks to God for the gift of the Blessed Virigin Mary who He created.

Such harsh words “get rid of”.

How horrible! Who would do such a thing? Do you really think that Jesus is calling you to get rid of His mother? I believe Jesus wants you to love His mother with the same respect and love that He has for her. We see this in John 19 where Jesus entrusts His mother to the Apostle John at the cross.

I leave you with the following Scripture which is a foreshadowing of Mary’s pureness and holiness. Mary is priceless in God’s eyes, so shouldn’t she also be priceless to us and be treat with respect?

Ezekiel 44:1-3 The Closed Gate
Then he brought me back to the outer gate of the sanctuary, which faces east; and it was shut. And he said to me, “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut. Only the prince may sit in it to eat bread before the Lord; he shall enter by way of the vestibule of the gate, and shall go out by the same way.”

 

[wisedom]

Originally Posted by Christian Unity
Why can’t a Catholic believe in Apostolic Succession (Catholic Magestirum) and sacramental process of justification and hang out and fellowship with Protestant neighbors and family members who believe in sola scriptura and justification by faith alone?

on what basis you make such a misguided allegation…? it is totally baseless!

are you projecting your own INTOLERANCE OR rigidity on to Catholics or those of other faiths?..that is an obvious answer!

 

[wisedom]

Benjohnson, you state :

“Catholics spend a lot of time in love and devotion to Mary”

And, rightfully so. Apparently, God honored Mary above all other people, above all men and women and gave her the privilege and dignity of carrying the Word of God in the flesh within her womb. Did God find favor with Mary above all others? Apparently so.

See Scripture: Luke 1:26-35 where God sends the angel Gabriel to announce this amazing good news that God has found favor with her and is asking her to allow God, the almighty, the all-powerful God of the Universe to become a little baby in her womb!

Mary’s yes to God’s will in her life opened up the door of salvation to the world.

You also state that:

“you have seen many good people…get to know God thru their love of Mary”

Many? How about the whole world got to know God thru Mary! God became Man and stepped into your world for no other reason than to share His life with you. Jesus desired to share His mother with the world!

Perhaps today you will offer up praise and thanks to God for the gift of the Blessed Virigin Mary who He created.

Such harsh words “get rid of”.

How horrible! Who would do such a thing? Do you really think that Jesus is calling you to get rid of His mother? I believe Jesus wants you to love His mother with the same respect and love that He has for her. We see this in John 19 where Jesus entrusts His mother to the Apostle John at the cross.

I leave you with the following Scripture which is a foreshadowing of Mary’s pureness and holiness. Mary is priceless in God’s eyes, so shouldn’t she also be priceless to us and be treat with respect?

Ezekiel 44:1-3 The Closed Gate
Then he brought me back to the outer gate of the sanctuary, which faces east; and it was shut. And he said to me, “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut. Only the prince may sit in it to eat bread before the Lord; he shall enter by way of the vestibule of the gate, and shall go out by the same way.”

i have to agree wholeheartedly to this post, because i have found it to be Scripturally based!
in the process, the protestant view is abominable, to say the least!..and of course stands in the way of any Reconcilliation or even of any meaningful dialogue!
the GROWING stupendous devotion to our Blessed Mother, who is the ARK OF THE NEW COVENANT, bears testimony to the miracles obtained through her intercession to Jesus; the devotion to MARY, in our part of the world, even overshadows the devotion to Jesus (in terms of numbers), because she is the MOTHER OF GOD-INCARNATE, and it is the easiest way or short-cut to her son! -of course, Jesus alone is WORSHIPPED OR ADORED and this is to be understood correctly.
i also agree that MARY is the co-redemptorist of humanity!

i have to state that i like many other believers have experienced miracles through the intercession of our Blessed Mother to her son JESUS CHRIST!

it may also be noted that Mary draws to her, children of all other religions, which includes hindus from my country!

 

[Christian_Unity]

Originally Posted by Christian Unity
Why can’t a Catholic believe in Apostolic Succession (Catholic Magestirum) and sacramental process of justification and hang out and fellowship with Protestant neighbors and family members who believe in sola scriptura and justification by faith alone?

on what basis you make such a misguided allegation…? it is totally baseless!

are you projecting your own INTOLERANCE OR rigidity on to Catholics or those of other faiths?..that is an obvious answer!

I’m glad you seem to imply that Catholics do fellowship with Protestant friends and neighbors. The purpose of this thread is to encourage Catholics and Protestants to co-labor and fellowship as one body of Christ. It seems you agree with me.

 

[Christian_Unity]

in my approach i pride myself in being universal and tolerant!

i do not JUDGE others but just state my views and read your views…

i fail to understand what ‘intolerant position i am proclaiming’, prmerger…

I do promote religious tolerance for all faiths, world religions, and non-religious individuals which means to love your neighbors as yourself, follow the Golden Rule regardless of a person’s beliefs. However, fellowship in Christ, and co-labor in the Great Commission is reserved for Christians (Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox). Check out this link on religious tolerance:

religioustolerance.org/

 

[Christian_Unity]

What does that mean, CU? Literally? I don’t see any problem with that. We are not religious bigots. Nearly all Catholics can count among their friends who are Protestants.

OTOH, if you mean to live let live, I don’t see any problem either. In fact if you ask any Catholics, many of them will tell you that it is the Protestants who think that Catholics need to be saved. We hear common stories how some Protestants taunt and abuse Catholic just because of their faith.

Because Paul IS the authority.

But after the apostles had left us, one cannot deny that much of their teaching has been nullified and fragmented. So we need to look for the authentic authority which has not been compromised through the years of history.

Apostolic Succession means one is able to trace back to the apostles their authority. The Magisterium is the infallible teaching of the Catholic Church that also could be traced back to the apostles.

As has been clarified by some Protestants, especially the Lutherans, there seem to be no different in the belief of by faith alone with the Catholic Church. What is different is the wording.

As I see it, you still have problem with #1, and that could be the obstacle to communion. As for #2, that can be bridged because the different is merely superficial unless you are an OSAS Protestant.

I’m just trying to build on the Evangelicals and Catholics Together Documents written in 1994 and 1996. I believe we should promote an ECT III movement in 2013. We should fellowship and co-labor in the Great Commission as Catholics, Protestants, and Orthodox Christian siblings, in-spite of our honest theological differences.

 

[benjohnson]

Many? How about the whole world got to know God thru Mary! God became Man and stepped into your world for no other reason than to share His life with you. Jesus desired to share His mother with the world!

Perhaps today you will offer up praise and thanks to God for the gift of the Blessed Virigin Mary who He created.

Such harsh words “get rid of”.

That will teach me to not express myself with care. We Lutherans have no problem with Mary - she is the Theotokos. I thought my praises to her would have expressed that, but I failed to convey that obviously.

My problem is with the potential for the “ecumenical process” to potentially water us all down to something less than the sum of our parts. I’d rather the world have strong Catholics and strong Lutherans than something squishy in between.

Granted, my fears may be unfounded. But that’s my reaction.

 

[Reuben_J]

I’m just trying to build on the Evangelicals and Catholics Together Documents written in 1994 and 1996. I believe we should promote an ECT III movement in 2013. We should fellowship and co-labor in the Great Commission as Catholics, Protestants, and Orthodox Christian siblings, in-spite of our honest theological differences.

Catholic Church have no problem with ecumenism, in fact it is being encouraged and even spelt out, especially this century. It’s a matter of what the face of it looks like.

We should fellowship and co-labor … . Agreed.

Interesting in the other thread that you seemed to insist (imply) that God does not work through man … .

 

[PRmerger]

by intolerance i would have meant the intolerance of one religion of the beliefs of other religions,or the members of other religions, i.e. religious intolerance that is the prime cause of killing of God’s people by each other or one another, all in God’s -even in Jesus’- name!

any ecum. dialogue presupposes that such intolerance of others’ differences of beliefs, will be absent!

for one who believes in the Revelation of Truth, because that is what i seek, INTOLERANCE is an alien!

TRUTH IS OFTEN ECLIPSED, BUT IT CAN NEVER BE EXTINGUISHED - Livy

But surely you can’t mean that each and every religious view that is proferred ought to be tolerated, do you?

Or are you willing to say that the despicable theology offered by the “Rev” Fred Phelps ought to be tolerated?

 

[wisedom]

I do promote religious tolerance for all faiths, world religions, and non-religious individuals which means to love your neighbors as yourself, follow the Golden Rule regardless of a person’s beliefs. However, fellowship in Christ, and co-labor in the Great Commission is reserved for Christians (Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox). Check out this link on religious tolerance:

religioustolerance.org/

and 'who is your neighbour", as Christ would ask?

are not those who are not Christians, potential Christians?

 

[Ion]

My personal opinion is that the whole church saves. There may be a difference in a doctrin between two churches, but as a whole, both churches can save people.
But there must be established some borders and limits to validate a church.

 

[wisedom]

That will teach me to not express myself with care. We Lutherans have no problem with Mary - she is the Theotokos. I thought my praises to her would have expressed that, but I failed to convey that obviously.

My problem is with the potential for the “ecumenical process” to potentially water us all down to something less than the sum of our parts. I’d rather the world have strong Catholics and strong Lutherans than something squishy in between.

Granted, my fears may be unfounded. But that’s my reaction.

i understand that you mean, ‘that will teach me to express myself with care’ ?

 

[Pitcharan]

I’m just trying to build on the Evangelicals and Catholics Together Documents written in 1994 and 1996. I believe we should promote an ECT III movement in 2013. We should fellowship and co-labor in the Great Commission as Catholics, Protestants, and Orthodox Christian siblings, in-spite of our honest theological differences.

Beautiful platforms for this could be: Alpha course, Prison ministry and Social service

 

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[billt9]

But surely you can’t mean that each and every religious view that is proferred ought to be tolerated, do you?

Or are you willing to say that the despicable theology offered by the “Rev” Fred Phelps ought to be tolerated?

First. I agree. Tolerance means we don’t kill them, don’t behead them, don’t imprison them, don’t deny them free speech because of their religious beliefs. It does NOT mean we agree they are right. All “paths to God” are not equally valid; there is only one way.

Second, I disagree; how about some sports smack talk? Only undefeated for 33 more days.forums.catholic-questions.org/images/smilies/smile.gif