a-call-for-ecuminical-dialogue-between-catholics-and-protestants

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Eufrosnia;10111572]These are indeed some I use too :). But I always have to make sure they sometimes understand that I am not doing Theology at that juncture as I quote but simply using it as a narrative. Because as soon as you quote Scripture, people tend to think its theology.
Yes, and the beliefs themselves can be traced back the same way a Catholic would. Interestingly, the Orthodox have missing concepts, similar to the Jews rather than arbitrary concepts. Both can trace what they have to a point of reasonable assent. But they just have difficulty going the full mile and accepting everything.
At least that is how I have come to see it 🙂
Yes, but again, we have to be careful when using Scripture. Once we enter Theology, it is a never ending debate of interpretation. So I find that historical approach works best (quoting Church fathers and if available, secular sources) because then its not much of an interpretation issue. But those passages can certainly get the job done too 🙂
I totally agree. 👍
Well, to be honest, most of my work dealt with finding a reasonable approach itself. The biggest issue for me was in convincing my non-Catholic friends, especially Atheists to embrace Catholicism. There are of course those who are just not looking for the truth. Those you cannot help. But there are those who are looking/open but just can’t see reasons. Sometimes they ask valid questions and I found myself sympathizing with them. So it is a search for a way to convey reasons for embracing Catholicism that lead me down this path.
In this sense, I usually tend to quote from other compiled lists 😃 For one thing, I always forget them off the top of my head. Even the Apostolic Succession ones, I have the passages listed so I can quickly refer.
So the lists I used for Primacy are from these places
Look under the section “Primacy of the Roman See”. Those you might have already seen.
Oh and I also use these points (specifically when discussing with Orthodox)
I find his blog very useful on this issue. The stuff he has on Canons is actually very useful (at least in my experience).
Bob Stanley has an awesome site, in terms of factual knowledge and apologetics; check it out when you get the chance:

home.inreach.com/bstanley/ 🙂
 
Bob Stanley has an awesome site, in terms of factual knowledge and apologetics; check it out when you get the chance:

home.inreach.com/bstanley/ 🙂
Wow thanks. That site has quiet an extensive collection from a quick look around. From now on, this is going to be providing stuff for my lists now for sure. Bookmarked! 🙂
 
Wow thanks. That site has quiet an extensive collection from a quick look around. From now on, this is going to be providing stuff for my lists now for sure. Bookmarked! 🙂
👍 You will love it; trust me…
 
Wow thanks. That site has quiet an extensive collection from a quick look around. From now on, this is going to be providing stuff for my lists now for sure. Bookmarked! 🙂
I’ve got to go, but I thought I would share the following 3 part Youtube with you and Jon; you can find other stuff on him online. He is a former Baptist and does an awesome job at explicating catholic beliefs e.g. the Mass etc…Most of my family belong to non-catholic churches and they really liked it. It’s a good non-catholic approach, especially when dealing with people that will shut down almost immediately upon hearing the word catholic e.g. my family. I wish they were more like Jon!!! I think the former Baptist Pastor brings a unique, funny and fresh perspective to Catholicism.

youtube.com/watch?v=jBEsrcF9SGg

Alex Jones has a wonderful conversion as well, and I often share it with my non-catholic brothers and sisters…Plus it’s such an amazing conversion story. Check it out when you have the time.

youtube.com/watch?v=mxDumU0TSrY

Jon, you would really enjoy them too…

Goodnight guys…🙂
 
I’ve got to go, but I thought I would share the following 3 part Youtube with you and Jon; you can find other stuff on him online. He is a former Baptist and does an awesome job at explicating catholic beliefs e.g. the Mass etc…Most of my family belong to non-catholic churches and they really liked it. It’s a good non-catholic approach, especially when dealing with people that will shut down almost immediately upon hearing the word catholic e.g. my family. I wish they were more like Jon!!! I think the former Baptist Pastor brings a unique, funny and fresh perspective to Catholicism.

youtube.com/watch?v=jBEsrcF9SGg

Alex Jones has a wonderful conversion as well, and I often share it with my non-catholic brothers and sisters…Plus it’s such an amazing conversion story. Check it out when you have the time.

youtube.com/watch?v=mxDumU0TSrY

Jon, you would really enjoy them too…

Goodnight guys…🙂
Oh thanks Joe. I will check them out when I get the chance! I already started first video 😃

Good night! 🙂

EDIT: He has a nice speaking style. Very engaging 🙂
 
…the Pope’s teaching about Luther’s infamous statement of faith alone. The point… I was trying to illustrate the Pope’s outreach for ecumenicism with non-Catholics; therefore, it seems that Catholics would follow his lead for ecumenism between Catholics and Protestants.
The Pope is not leading us to abandon the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic faith in order to come into agreement with those who have fallen into heresies.
Yep, Protestantism has issues and problems, but what church circles do not have challenges and issues? As you are very aware of, Protestantism is very broad and diverse… so I would say many historic orthodox Protestants have more in common with orthodox Catholics then some of the more unorthodox modern day Protestant circles. I think Protestant circles get in trouble when they throw out historic creeds and confessionals. I also believe many Protestants disregard church history when trying to understand Scripture which is a big problem. There appears to be rampant “proof texting” practice too in certain Protestant circles.
I agree with you that historic orthodox Protestants have more in common with Catholics than fundamentalists and modern spin offs.

I also think that our separated brethren have much to bring the the Faith, the love of Scripture, the passion for evangelism and discipleship, and a better understanding of the workings of grace in living the sanctified life.
… my particular flavor of Christianity
This is a very revealing statement, and describes well the Protestant wellspring of communities in opposition to one another. The Apostles taught that there is One Faith, One Church.

.
Maybe most of our disagreements are related to how we understand how God reveals Himself to us: Sola Scriptura verses Apostolic Succession. Since we have a different understanding of final authority, we can have tolerance with each other… learning to disagree agreeably on many of these issues that seem to divide us. In all honesty, I don’t think on the other side of glory that we will be wearing Catholic hats or Protestant hats. I guess on this ecumencial thread, we should be able to share from all the different sources available to us.
Didn’t you know? Everyone in heaven is Catholic. 😃

They may not have been recognizable as such here, but they are there!
I was reading somewhere on the Internet that there are different Catholic views of authority of Sacred Scripture verses Sacred tradition. Do some Catholics have a higher view of Sacred Scripture than Sacred tradition? Or do Catholics believe Sacred Scripture is equal to Sacred tradition? We both agree that Sacred Scripture is God-breathed, but how does Sacred oral and written tradition compare to Sacred Scripture in that sense and to overall authority?
There are Catholics with all kinds of opinions. I think the majority of Americans self identifying as Catholic have lost the faith, or never embraced it. They are like the cultural Jews of today that don’t believe their own historic faith.

But no amount of people abandoning the Truth will change the Truth. What the Apostles taught is that there are two equal and inerrant strands of divine revelation, Scripture and Tradition. They complement one another, and each helps us understand the other better.
 
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Okay, when I read this... it seems Sacred Scripture is held higher than Sacred Tradition for some Catholics like Akin.  Maybe Protestant converts to the Catholic Faith have a higher view of Sacred Scripture over Sacred Tradition?
Not higher, perhaps, but certainly Scripture is generally very highly valued by both converts and reverts. Some of us learned to read Scripture from our separated brethren. But it is usually the Sacred Tradition that draws us back, because that is what prevents the splintering and confusion.
Where does Sacred Tradition stop and tradition begins in the Catholic Faith.
I know there are a wide range of beliefs in the Catholic Faith when something is not declared dogma, but there are allowable beliefs under the Catholic umbrella for many issues. For instance, would Mary being co-redemptive be considered tradition and not Sacred Tradition?
No, Mary is co-redemptive, and has always been since her conception (which we celebrate today, by the way 👍). It has not been proclaimed a Dogma but it most likely will be.

The wide range of beliefs that exist are, in large part, not permissable. Many baptized Catholics have become Protestant and don’t realize it. They believe they can depart from the Teachings of the Apostles and still be properly called Catholics, but this is not the case. We are bound by the Apostolic instruction even though most of it has never been declared “dogma”. There are actually very few such declarations.

Sacred Tradition is the Word of God infallibly protected in the Church. Traditions of men are those things that are cultural distinctives that can change. The Word of God cannot change.
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I know the church grows in understanding over time to understand the Faith.  So, if something becomes new Sacred Tradition down the road, how does that work since the Faith was once for all delivered to the Saints in the first century?
You are right that the faith was once for all delivered to the Church. No “new Sacred Tradition” can be added. The Dogmas are always declarations of what the Church already received in that once for all deposit.
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 Either Mary is a co-redemptive with Christ or she is not... regardless of this truth being declared Sacred Tradition or simply just being tradition.  It’s kind of like the Bible in the sense that it has always been God breathed revelation from above before any official Church council declared it to be with an official cannon.
Yes, you have that exactly right. No Dogma introduces anything new. Just as the Scriptures were inspired as soon as they were written, whether they were recognized as such, or not, so Sacred Tradition has been true from the time Jesus taught, whether it was recognized as such, or not.
When the Philippian jailer asked the Apostle Paul the question of what must we do to be saved, the Apostle did not respond with you must submit to the correct version of authority and have the right understanding of justification.
On the contrary, that is EXACTLY what he was asking! And the correct doctrine and understanding is that which comes from the Apostles:

Acts 2:40-42
41 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls. 42 And they devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers.

The Church founded by Christ has always been centered around the teachings of Apostles (and their successors), the Eucharist, and the prayers. Most modern Protestants have no clue what the Apostles believed and practiced with regard to eucharist and prayers. These are elements that have been infalibly preserved by the Holy Spirit through Sacred Tradition.
There are only two issues that prevent me from being Catholic
  1. Agreeing on Apostolic Succession - Catholic Magestrium
  2. Leaving the doctrine of justification by faith alone.
I agree with just about all of the other essential Christian doctrines which make us siblings in Christ. What are your thoughts?
My thought is that I will keep you in my prayers. :highprayer:
 
from one of these threads, i became aware that john paul 2, while visiting Muslim countries, told their youth that they and christians worship the same God, in which case salvation only through the catholic church becomes redundant!
No. It does not.
Jesus did not found any religion, he only founded the kingdom of God, which he himself is, as also its King!

He did not teach any rules & regulations that are the Way to his Father, but only via LOVE, we can be in communion with our Creator!

**Hypocrisy is the hall-mark of Christianity **and as Christian Unity rightly quoted Gandhi, it is clear and obvious from what the latter said!
If you wish to post here, wisedom, then you will have to comply with the forum rules. You do not have to share our faith, but you are required to respect our beliefs or our right to them.

It is not appopriate to come here and insult us by making statements such as this. Hypocrites are found everywhere human beings are found, and they are not peculiar to Christianity.
( you should/must/ought to) read …

… it goes without saying that you must…

i conclude … in my own words

AND FOR GOD’S SAKE, TRY TO UNDERSTAND…YOU SHOULD KNOW WHERE TO FIND THAT DEF.

Note: i have replied to you, because there is no impoliteness in your originating post…i am not inclined to respond to any tom, dick, or harry, who as so-called christians, ‘do not practise what they preach’ -hypocrites!..i also reserve the right to IGNORE any poster who comments impolitely or arrogantly!
Wisedom, perhaps you do not realize how self posessed and judgmental you actually come across. You reserve the right to make determinations about who does not meet your criteria for courtesy and humility, and intend to give such unfortunates your silent treatment.
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I guess you are going to have to define what you consider an anti-Catholic website.
First let me apologize for bringing up an issue already dispensed with because I was behind on the thread. I have not seen such a fast moving thread in a long time!

It really does not matter what I personally think at all. It is a forum rule, enforced by forum mods.
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  Protestant sites are anti-Catholic by the definition of the word protestant.
Not necessarily. some are, as was the first one you linked for your “faith alone” post, but some have no mention or concern about Catholics whatsoever. As has been noted, many Protestants call themselves “non-denominational” and do not consider themselves “Protesting” anything. You are right that they don’t recognize the theology they embrace is Protestant.
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 As a Reformed Christian adhering to the Westminster Confession of Faith, it has anti-Catholic language in it.  When I was nominated as an elder in a confessional Reformed church, you were able to take exceptions to some of the language and views expressed in the Westminster of Faith including all that anti-Catholic language to serve as an elder. You have to remember, those documents including the Council of Trent were written in times contrary to today.
Yes. STrong language on both sides for strong areas of disagreement.
Are you saying I cannot link to articles from Monergism.com or reformed.org? This is the non-Catholic Religions section which is about comparing and contrasting beliefs.
I think your solution of using official Catholic sites to make your point is a good solution.
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 If you still question my motive, I welcome you to review conversations on   Christian Fellowship of Facebook where Catholics and Protestants discuss, debate, and fellowship together as one in Christ.
I will not question your motive on this point any further as I consider it settled. No, thank you, I prefer fellowshipping in person. 😃
It’s not easy, but it’s a worthy task. I do need the on-going help of Catholic Answers to continue my education about the Catholic Faith.
If you use the tab on the top left to catholic.com, you will find one of the options is “tracts” where there is a collection of simple responses to many issues raised in a mixed environment like your facebook group.
Thanks for the guidance. I think I will reduce my participation on here for awhile, and post when I really need help on understanding the Catholic Faith. This site doesn’t seem the best place to push for Christian unity between Catholics and Protestants. I want thank those who seem want an honest discussion regarding our differences and similarities. I can understand those who were very suspious and put on a staunch defense of the Catholic Faith too. - Peace and grace to all.
Yeah I don’t recommend this site for “fellowship” because it does tend to be contentious. Probably the “Catholic Living” section is the only one here that doesn’t thrive so much on conflict.

You are right that some of us are suspicious and very sensitive to proselytizing. I don’t see how that makes us dishonest in discussion, though.
 
to whomsoever it may concern:

i have just IGNORED the hon. guanophore for his INTOLERANCE, ARROGANCE, TAKING THE LAW INTO HIS OWN HANDS AND ABSOLUTE DISRESPECT FOR TRUTH STATED BY ME!
If anyone prefers that i post half-truths, or demands or commands that i must do so, then he will be naturally disappointed!
I AM HERE TO POST THE TRUTH AS REVEALED TO ME BY MY CONSCIENCE!

fyi, THE DOCTRINE OF INVIOLABILITY OF CONSCIENCE TOWERS ABOVE EVERY OTHER DOCTRINE OF THE CHURCH!

i challenge anyone to delete this id…if i was accidentally directed to this site, he would be successful; on the other hand if it was providential, then failure stares him in the face!

I CARE A TUPPENCE IF THIS ID IS DELETED BY ANYONE!

WISHING YOU ALL SUCCESS!

'TRUTH IS OFTEN ECLIPSED, BUT IT CAN NEVER BE EXTINGUISHED- Livy

Note: i can now traverse or journey thro’ the forums, without fear of any hypocritical or arrogant or intolerant comments from Self-righteous pharisees!..i.e of nuisance value to one who is WEDDED TO THE WORD OF GOD - JESUS CHRIST!
 
to whomsoever it may concern:

i have just IGNORED the hon. guanophore for his INTOLERANCE, ARROGANCE, TAKING THE LAW INTO HIS OWN HANDS AND ABSOLUTE DISRESPECT FOR TRUTH STATED BY ME!
If anyone prefers that i post half-truths, or demands or commands that i must do so, then he will be naturally disappointed!
I AM HERE TO POST THE TRUTH AS REVEALED TO ME BY MY CONSCIENCE!

fyi, THE DOCTRINE OF INVIOLABILITY OF CONSCIENCE TOWERS ABOVE EVERY OTHER DOCTRINE OF THE CHURCH!

i challenge anyone to delete this id…if i was accidentally directed to this site, he would be successful; on the other hand if it was providential, then failure stares him in the face!

I CARE A TUPPENCE IF THIS ID IS DELETED BY ANYONE!

WISHING YOU ALL SUCCESS!

'TRUTH IS OFTEN ECLIPSED, BUT IT CAN NEVER BE EXTINGUISHED- Livy

Note: i can now traverse or journey thro’ the forums, without fear of any hypocritical or arrogant or intolerant comments from Self-righteous pharisees!..i.e of nuisance value to one who is WEDDED TO THE WORD OF GOD - JESUS CHRIST!
Love,

You appear to be angry, love…😦
 
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