A Case for Once Saved Always Saved

[SHW]

Hi, SHW,

For all of these many years, I have equated salvation with going to heaven. So, that, the OSAS doctrine totally negates free will and the fact that God will not be made a fool of! But, now I see there may be another meaning.

So, could it mean that we are all ‘saved’ through Christ’s Life, Death and Resurrection - but to bring this ‘being saved’ into effect we must actually follow Christ and obey His Commands. In other words, we are saved - BUT - if we choose to sin then when we are justly condemned to Hell we will have the mark of that Salvation on our souls - to our eternal shame. Is this a legitimate interpretation fo OSAS?

Jesus redeemed all mankind on the cross as His free gift of grace for us. However, we must partake of this gift of salvation/sanctifying grace individually through repentance and Baptism in order to then have the hope of inheriting eternal life when we die. Baptism (sanctification) does not guarantee that we will inherit eternal life. Obedience to God’s commandments and fulfilling His will for our lives gives us the right to inherit eternal life. Revelation 22:14 We must be found worthy Revelation 3:4 at our deaths (our baptismal garments must still be clean/not defiled by mortal sin) in order to be approved to inherit the crown of eternal life. James 1:12

About those baptized persons who are condemned to hell: Yes, to their eternal shame, the seal/mark of baptism (remission of Original Sin) will be visible for all in hell to see.

Ephesians 2:8-10
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

First, we are saved by grace through faith.
Second, we must do the good works that God prepared for us in order to inherit eternal life. This is a command, not a suggestion.

Both of these are necessary in order for us to inherit eternal life when we die.

James 2:24
You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only (alone).

If you look at all of the Judgment Day Scripture passages, none of them state that we are judged by our faith. However, all of them state that we are judged by our works.

Our works/fruits/deeds show everyone whether we have a saving faith or not. They prove what type of faith that we have.

Romans 2:5-8
But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”: 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,

 

[SHW]

Yes and that is what I have been saying. When you accept Christ you are saved but salvation is a gift from God that you also accept but you can loose your salvation but not being saved because once you accept Christ in your life he will neverl leave you. Please point out the confussion and I will try to make it clear.

Most persons believe that OSAS means that once you are saved, then you cannot lose your salvation, no matter what you do.
**
Christ never leaves any person while the person is still alive on earth**. However, if he dies in a state of mortal sin (if he does not have sanctifying grace on his soul at the time of his death), then he is condemned to hell. Christ must then leave him if he is condemned to hell because hell is “godless.” That is why hell is called hell. God is eternal Light and hell is eternal darkness. God cannot be in hell.

 

[SHW]

No, “Sons of Disobedience” is a term expressly reserved for the unregenerated followers of Satan and his domain.

"And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: "

If you revert back to your old sinful ways, then you again become a son of disobedience. The spirit of the devil is once again your master and you are his slave.

Romans 6:16
Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

If you choose to sin after baptism, then you have forfeited your earlier righteousness.

17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

We must continue to obey God until we die if we desire to inherit eternal life.

Ezekiel 18:24
But if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked man does, will he live? None of the righteous things he has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness he is guilty of and because of the sins he has committed, he will die (lose eternal life).

No such thing as OSAS.

 

[GodLovesTheSpek]

Christ never leaves any person. It is through our own fault that we reject Him and toss Him away. During life we can ask for forgiveness and reconcile and we accept Jesus (who wants to be with us) back into our lives. If we throw Him away before death and do not reconcile, then through our own fault, we accept permanent separation.

The old saying: “Be careful what you ask for, you might get it” applies in this instance. We un-embrace Christ and embrace Hell when we sin.

 

[SHW]

All of our perfection will come only from our being saved “in Christ”.
To assume that we can achieve any of that perfection ourselves takes away from what Christ did to redeem us. You make it a partial redemption if we must also “overcome our sinful nature”, even if that overcoming is “helped” by grace, in order to get into Heaven.
Christ paid it all and it is only by God’s gift of grace through our faith in what He did to save us that actually saves us. “Graced” works are only a result of that true saving faith in Christ.
Sacraments are not described in the Bible as a means of receiving grace. Grace would not be grace, if it required some means outside of it being obtained as a direct and unmerited gift from God.

Baptism is a sacrament instituted by Christ to give grace to the recipient. It is called a mystery in Scripture. Since there are a myriad of mysteries, the Church decided to call this type of mystery a sacrament. A sacrament is a rite/means for receiving Christ’s grace.

1 Corinthians 4:1
Let a man so consider us, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God. Ephesians 3:8-11, Ephesians 3:3-5

There are seven sacraments in Jesus’ Church. They are: Baptism, Confirmation, Reconciliation, Holy Eucharist, Matrimony, Holy Orders, and Anointing of the Sick. References are made in Scripture for each of these, but not in plain English. 2 Peter 3:16

The Church is the foundation and support of the truth, not Scripture. 1 Timothy 3:15 Scripture is helpful to the Church in teaching its doctrines. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 The Church was first. The NT Scriptures are supplements to its oral teachings. They do not replace the oral teachings. When interpreted correctly, Scripture always backs up Catholic oral teaching.

 

[adrift]

Not wasted, profitable years. Never learned one false thing and I have no spiritaul pride. By the way is this thread about me? I tyhink you all have gone above the rules indeed making this about me and I will report

I would hope the moderators would see that you post remarks that are personal opinion. When you do that you invite comment that is also personal. For eight years of study, you are unable to defend your position. You have been asked more than once where is it in the Bible that faith is Bible alone? You are unable or unwilling, which to me amounts to the same thing, to provide evidence from the Bible of any position you hold. You can post what you want but when you make personal comments that are not backed up with substance you can expect to have it answered.

Eight years you have been indoctrinated into a particular belief. That is true of any interpretation of the Bible. If you don’t know how others interpret it, than it becomes tunnel vision. I would invite you to do that free bible study mentioned to broaden your knowledge.

 

[tweetymom]

I would hope the moderators would see that you post remarks that are personal opinion. When you do that you invite comment that is also personal. For eight years of study, you are unable to defend your position. You have been asked more than once where is it in the Bible that faith is Bible alone? You are unable or unwilling, which to me amounts to the same thing, to provide evidence from the Bible of any position you hold. You can post what you want but when you make personal comments that are not backed up with substance you can expect to have it answered.

Eight years you have been indoctrinated into a particular belief. That is true of any interpretation of the Bible. If you don’t know how others interpret it, than it becomes tunnel vision. I would invite you to do that free bible study mentioned to broaden your knowledge.

You are not allowed to give personal oponion? Seems like you have given your personal oponion about me. Whats with that?

 

[adrift]

You are not allowed to give personal oponion? Seems like you have given your personal oponion about me. Whats with that?

Where did I say that you couldn’t? Please reread because you didn’t get my point. I noticed also that you still have not provided scripture that says scripture only.

 

[jmcrae]

Thats salvation now what is being saved?

It’s another name for salvation. It will take place after I die, when I am judged to be perfect and I am allowed to go to Heaven.

 

[jmcrae]

You are not allowed to give personal oponion?

This is a debating forum.

We say, "I believe [this] because I read [chapter and verses with quotation] in the Bible, which is backed up by [Early Father] who wrote [quotation from Early Father] in [year and place].

Not, “I believe [this] and anybody who disagrees with me is a big meany.”

 

[Xavierlives]

This is a debating forum.

We say, "I believe [this] because I read [chapter and verses with quotation] in the Bible, which is backed up by [Early Father] who wrote [quotation from Early Father] in [year and place].

Not, “I believe [this] and anybody who disagrees with me is a big meany.”

But I can say, I believe we will sleep when we die because of John 11:11 and the ridicule will follow.

 

[Xavierlives]

I would hope the moderators would see that you post remarks that are personal opinion. When you do that you invite comment that is also personal. For eight years of study, you are unable to defend your position. You have been asked more than once where is it in the Bible that faith is Bible alone? You are unable or unwilling, which to me amounts to the same thing, to provide evidence from the Bible of any position you hold. You can post what you want but when you make personal comments that are not backed up with substance you can expect to have it answered.

Eight years you have been indoctrinated into a particular belief. That is true of any interpretation of the Bible. If you don’t know how others interpret it, than it becomes tunnel vision. I would invite you to do that free bible study mentioned to broaden your knowledge.

Just a question, but is everything in the Bible? The Mormons think not.

 

[SHW]

But I can say, I believe we will sleep when we die because of John 11:11 and the ridicule will follow.

Were Moses and Elijah asleep when they conversed with Jesus at His transfiguration? No.

Matthew 17:2-4
and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light. 3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him. 4 Then Peter answered and said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, let us[a] make here three tabernacles: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.

Was the rich man and Abraham and Lazarus asleep? No.

Luke 16:19-31
“There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. 20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’
27 “Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ 29 Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’”

There is no such thing as “soul sleep.”

John 11:11
These things He said, and after that He said to them, “Our friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go that I may wake him up.

“Sleep” is the Eastern way of saying “dead.” Lazarus had died.

Acts 7:58-60
and they cast him out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul. 59 And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60 Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not charge them with this sin.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

Stephen was stoned to death. He died. People in Eastern Cultures call death “sleep.”

 

[SHW]

Just a question, but is everything in the Bible? The Mormons think not.

Catholics do not believe that everything is in the Bible.

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word (oral preaching/teaching) or our epistle (letter).

John 21:25
And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. Amen.

 

[Xavierlives]

Were Moses and Elijah asleep when they conversed with Jesus at His transfiguration? No.

Matthew 17:2-4
and He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light. 3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him. 4 Then Peter answered and said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, let us[a] make here three tabernacles: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.

Was the rich man and Abraham and Lazarus asleep? No.

Luke 16:19-31
“There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. 20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’
27 “Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ 29 Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’”

There is no such thing as “soul sleep.”

John 11:11
These things He said, and after that He said to them, “Our friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go that I may wake him up.

“Sleep” is the Eastern way of saying “dead.” Lazarus had died.

Acts 7:58-60
and they cast him out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul. 59 And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60 Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not charge them with this sin.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

Stephen was stoned to death. He died. People in Eastern Cultures call death “sleep.”

Was Samuel when Saul roused him? Yes.

(Maybe this will be my next “A Case for…”)

I’ll work on it after this one tuckers out (which might be the case).

 

[SHW]

Was Samuel when Saul roused him? Yes.

1 Samuel 28:13-15
And the king said to her, “Do not be afraid. What did you see?”
And the woman said to Saul, “I saw a spirit ascending out of the earth.”
14 So he said to her, “What is his form?”
And she said, “An old man is coming up, and he is covered with a mantle.” And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground and bowed down.
15 Now Samuel said to Saul, “Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?”
And Saul answered, “I am deeply distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God has departed from me and does not answer me anymore, neither by prophets nor by dreams. Therefore I have called you, that you may reveal to me what I should do.”

Abraham’s bosom was in Hades (the abode of the dead). Hades included Abraham’s bosom, prison/purgatory, and hell. Hades is under the earth. Philippians 2:10

Samuel was enjoying his “rest” in Abraham’s bosom (under the earth in Hades) in the same manner as Lazarus and Abraham were enjoying their rest there. Samuel, who resided in Abraham’s bosom, did not desire to be disturbed from his pleasant rest by the reprobate Saul’s request.

 

[ufamtobie]

No silly. I am condensing the concept of OSAS.

I can condense it even more:
Once I am saved, I am always saved.

Xavierlives,

Apprently you have not read(Roman 11:21,22) For if God hath not spared the natural branches, fear lest perhaps he also spare not thee. 22 See then the goodness and the severity of God: towards them indeed that are fallen, the severity; but towards thee, the goodness of God, if thou abide in goodness, otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

King James Version:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

XavierLives, I am sorry to rain on your parade by believing OSAS. Here God states that "If Thou abide in Goodness, OTHERWISE Thou Also Shalt be CUT OFF!

Xavierlives, Yes, we can loose our salvation by being CUT OFF by a Mortal sin, and thrown to Hell!

Ufamtobie

 

[tweetymom]

This is a debating forum.

We say, "I believe [this] because I read [chapter and verses with quotation] in the Bible, which is backed up by [Early Father] who wrote [quotation from Early Father] in [year and place].

Not, “I believe [this] and anybody who disagrees with me is a big meany.”

I have never called anyone a big meany only rude. I am glad I do not have to wait until I get to heaven to be saved. I am now:thumbsup:

 

[adrift]

I have never called anyone a big meany only rude. I am glad I do not have to wait until I get to heaven to be saved. I am now:thumbsup:

Not in the Bible. Nope:nope: The Bible says the opposite. It says to work out your salvation in fear and trembling.

Jesus said

Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, 10 but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.

22
Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?’
23
Then I will declare to them solemnly, ‘I never knew you. 11 Depart from me, you evildoers.’

Mt 7:21

Matthew 16:27
For the Son of Man will come with his angels in his Father’s glory, and then He will repay everyone according to his conduct.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I have never called anyone a big meany only rude. I am glad I do not have to wait until I get to heaven to be saved. I am now:thumbsup:

Come on, tell the truth, did you think about hitting me with a big stick once or twice?