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tweetymom
Guest
Angry with you?
No sir I feel sorry for you.
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No sir I feel sorry for you.
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tqualey
Guest
Hi, Jmcrae,
I didn’t know what BSF was, so I looked it up.
Well… I did not know what it was either - so, in addition to looking it up … I’ll post the ‘answer’…" Bible Study Fellowship"…
You know what the really sad thing is? She could have done the same thing in four years, for free, with the Little Rock Scripture Study at any local Catholic parish - and gotten the correct teaching (at least, mostly). :doh2:
God bless
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rev_kevin
Guest
Yes and that is what I have been saying. When you accept Christ you are saved but salvation is a gift from God that you also accept but you can loose your salvation but not being saved because once you accept Christ in your life he will neverl leave you. Please point out the confussion and I will try to make it clear." Always saved" to most people means that they can never lose their salvation even if they commit adultery or murder, etc. after they become saved in the first place. I was clarifying this fact.
Rev Kevin’s posts are confusing to some people because he “borrows” established “phraseology” and then uses it to mean something else.
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tweetymom
Guest
Not wasted, profitable years. Never learned one false thing and I have no spiritaul pride. By the way is this thread about me? I tyhink you all have gone above the rules indeed making this about me and I will report
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jmcrae
Guest
Did you watch the little video? It’s exactly the same outline of activities as Little Rock Scripture Study.
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
So then you weave in and out between from being “Sons of God” to being “Sons of Disobedience”?
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jmcrae
Guest
Dear Rev. Kevin;
“Being saved” and “having salvation” are two forms of the same word, “to save”. Both forms mean exactly the same thing.
My understanding of the official Baptist teaching is that, when you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour, you “get saved” or in other words (words that mean exactly the same thing) you receive salvation from God. These are not two different things; they are one and the same thing - and either you have it, or you don’t.
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
We can try. See if you make them understand the following was spoken to the Apostles, those He ordained/appointed?
Joh 15:16 You have not chosen me: but I have chosen you; and have appointed you, that you should go and should bring forth fruit; and your fruit should remain: that whatsoever you shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
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rev_kevin
Guest
Once you accept Christ will he ever leave you?
Can you loose your salvation?
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adrift
Guest
It isn’t that Christ will leave you but that you will leave Him.
Otherwise why should you work out your salvation in fear and trembling?
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brkn1
Guest
The sarcastic tone of this post is not very convincing of how your sacraments are supposed to work in overcoming a sinful nature.I take it you are a promoter of “forensic justification” which has boatloads of sinners going to Heaven “in disguise,” pretending to be Saints. I always think how awful it must be for all those sinners, worrying that they might slip and commit a sin in Heaven, and thus get caught, and then be restored to their rightful place in Hell.
Fortunately, the only people who actually go to Heaven are those who have actually overcome their sinful nature by means of the grace of Jesus Christ in the Sacraments of His One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, and who will thus never be tempted to sin when they get to Heaven.
Is your last sentence really a doctrine of your Church?
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jmcrae
Guest
No, of course not. That’s not “being saved” though - that’s “being baptized.”
Yes - but that’s because I won’t “get saved” until I am actually in Heaven. “Getting saved” means that I am already in Heaven.
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jmcrae
Guest
In what way is it “sarcastic”? I was asking a question for clarification.Only the perfect go to Heaven, yes. The Sacraments are the means by which we receive the grace to become perfect.
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rev_kevin
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IAGladfelter
Guest
The way it was presented in the Southern Baptist Seminary in which I took my biblical Greek and Hebrew, when one makes a decision to accept Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior, states this before men (the congregation or assembly at a revival or - often - before a Baptist minister) and is baptized, it is fair to say that they are saved. But some, whose subsequent life shows they are acting as they did before indicates that they are in fact not saved, and never were. How can this be? It is because they were not being predestined to salvation.
I have a real problem with that Calvinistic Soteriology. Predestination is in fact a doctrine of the Catholic Church (see the online Catholic Encyclopedia on the New Advent website: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12378a.htm). Also check out the Jesuit version (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10437a.htm).
But Calvin’s concept of Predestination (which involves the denial of free will http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06259a.htm) differs from what the Catholic Church teaches, especially as it was taught by the Molina and other Jesuits (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10437a.htm).
Once Saved Always Saved is simply the Baptist’s manner of presenting John Calvin’s Predestination. Those predestined to eternal live have no choise but to accept Jesus Christ as their personal savior. Those predestined to perdition may also go through the motions of such a choise and believe they are saved, but they are not, never have been, and no matter how often they go through the “decision theology” process of “being saved,” never will be.
By the way, while Martin Luther did personally believe in double predestination, he did not push that on the Lutheran Movement which has always held to essentially the same view of predestination as does the Catholic Church - coming close to Molinism (with the exception of some elements of the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod which have, in the past, been accused of “Crypto-Calvinism.”
Blessings,
Irl
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jmcrae
Guest
Philippians 2:12
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rev_kevin
Guest
Where does your salvation come in?No, of course not. That’s not “being saved” though - that’s “being baptized.”
And to us once you accept Christ, once you are saved, you are them baptized
Yes - but that’s because I won’t “get saved” until I am actually in Heaven. “Getting saved” means that I am already in Heaven.
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tqualey
Guest
Hi, Rocket Man,
Did you know that you have multiple contradictions in your post…
Did you know that you have multiple contradictions in your post…
You are right! Continuing to live sin is absolutely contrary to Christ’s work on the cross, the ministry of the Holy Spirit… You start out with an accurate statement - but, totally misapply it!
and the seed deposited in the regenerated believer. No one here has argued that there aren’t consequences for sin. I just don’t share your thoughts of Christians weaving back and forth from being “Sons of God” to being “Sons of Disobedience” by our sin. Well, it really isn’t a matter of ‘sharing thoughts’ - let’s take a look at St. Paul in Romans 7:23
"…but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members…" But, let’s not stop there… look at the Apostles…
Here we have ten of them who deserted Christ when He was arrested, tried, tortured, and crucified - and then refused to believe He rose from the dead! How is that for sinful behavior and lack fo faith? But, we have two more who went beyond these ten…
Judas acted in a pre-mediated manner and betrayed Christ - and then thought his sin was too big for God to forgive - so he despairs and kills himself.
Peter, the “Prince of the Apostles”, the one whom Christ built His Church on (and, that would be the Catholic Church) runs away like the others, then denies Christ and runs away - AGAIN - after previously proclaiming he would die for Christ when there was no obvious threat to his own safety.
All of these men sinned - after being in the company of - and having a personal relationship with Christ. These are all serious sins - and Judas’ was probably the worst - not for the betrayal but for the despair! This was follow up by Peter who probably was close to Judas in terms of the gravity of this sin.
Today, we find people who claim to follow Christ (Christians) really do sin (chose our will over the Will of God - through acts of pride, envy, laziness, etc.) Is this bad? Of course it is bad! Can these sins be forgiven - yes, they can! Can these Christians fail to repent, fail to beg God’s forgiveness, fail to go to Confession? Yes. Can these Christians - if there soul was required of them this night - be condemned for all eternity? Yes. And, make no mistake about this - these people were redeemed by the Blood of the Lamb! These people cried out, “Lord! Lord” on more then one occassion - and may have even worked miracles in the name of Christ! Did these people use their free will to sin (let’s face it, you can not sin without the use of your free will)? Yes.
It’s fairly clear that the “Sons of Disobedience” are unbelievers who are under the continue sway of the wicked one. Which I was once, but not any longer.
You know…St. Paul was working out his salvation in fear and trembling (Phil 2:12) for a reason - he was fully aware of his own sinful human nature.
From my reading of your post, it seems like you really do not see us as having a wounded human natures (since Adam’s sin) and real weakness when it comes to moving our wills towards accepting the Grace of God to do good and avoid evil.
God bless
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jmcrae
Guest
After I die, when I am judged to be perfect and I am allowed to go to Heaven.
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rev_kevin
Guest
Put into action God’s saving work in your lives. in light of the preceding exhortation to unity, means that the entire church was to work together to rid themselves of divisions and discord. The Phillippian Christians needed to be especially careful to obey Christ, now that Paul wasn’t there to continually remind them about what was right.Philippians 2:12
Dear friends, You were always so careful to follow my instructions when I was with you. And now that I am away you must be even more careful to put into action God’s saving work in your lives. Obeying God with deep reverence and fear.
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