A Case for Once Saved Always Saved

[Prodigal_Son1]

1 Peter 3:21 “And this is a picture of Baptism, which now saves you by the power of Jesus Christ’s resurrection.”
Luke 7:50 “Your faith has saved you, go in peace.”
Matthew 1:21 And she will have a son and you are to name him Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins."
I see nowhere where it says we are only saved when we actually enter into heaven. Please show me that.

Let me share a little analogy with you.

For the sake of this demonstration, let’s say you can’t swim. We’re standing on the side of a river and you fall in. I jump in and pull you to shore and save you from drowning. Then I leave you alone on the river bank. You slip and fall into the river a second time. Are you still saved?

 

[Third_Day]

I already explained in post 129 what 1 John 5:16-17 means.
We believe that a sin is a sin no matter how big or small it still puts us out of fellowship with God. But I understand what you are saying I just don’t believe it.

Rev. Jesus disagrees with you Matt 5:19 " Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven."

Not all sins are equal. Is stealing $10 from my neighbor the same as committing adultery with his wife? One is deadly, the other is not.

 

[rev_kevin]

.Agree.
.
Rev. this verse does not say that sin cannot snatch us away. Do you believe in free will? How do you know that you are one of the sheep?

Great we agree that you must confess every time you sin. But what if you don’t.? Will you be saved if you don’t confess and repent.?

DId I read this right? You are saying that you can lose eternal life?
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No. Some are deadly some are not
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How do you arrive at that? 1 John 2 " My little children, I am writing this to you so that you may not sin" Or how about 3:24 " All who keeps his commandments abide in him, and he in them"
.
Of course God is the final judge but He gave us a Church so that we know the true way to salvation.

I think John is saying that we cannot have confidence if we pray for someone in mortal sin that they will be forgiven. Mortal is is so horrible that our prayers may not help , This ties into verse 14 of 1 John 5

.
God says to keep His commandments.

ALl these things you listed are works of love. This is why Paul says that the only thing of avail is “faith working through love”. We are not saved by faith alone but faith working through love.

1. Glad we agree on this one.
   2.It will not snatch us from being saved It will snatch us from eternal life or salvation. Yes I do believe in free will. I was lost and now I am found.
2. You are still saved but you can loose your salvation or your eternal life.
   4 yep
   5.What does this have to do with what I said.
3. Well we will disagree with this one. Jesus is the church. He who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.
4. I stick by what I said.
5. Yes he did.
6. and not by good deeds or works alone.

How do you come up with what is a mortal sin?

 

[rev_kevin]

Rev. Jesus disagrees with you Matt 5:19 " Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven."

Not all sins are equal. Is stealing $10 from my neighbor the same as committing adultery with his wife? One is deadly, the other is not.

But they didn’t loose eternal life did they?
Thou shall not steal
Thou shall not covet thy neighbors wife
Both are in the 10 commandments and both are sin. If you commit them they are just as bad as the other. See we put degrees on sin God don’t.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

But they didn’t loose eternal life did they?
Thou shall not steal
Thou shall not covet thy neighbors wife
Both are in the 10 commandments and both are sin. If you commit them they are just as bad as the other. See we put degrees on sin God don’t.

The Son of God said there was a sin to be forgiven for, but named another sin that would not be forgiven…in this world or the world to come.

Mat 12:32 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him neither in this world, nor in the world to come.

 

[rev_kevin]

The Son of God said there was a sin to be forgiven for, but named another sin that would not be forgiven…in this world or the world to come.

Mat 12:32 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him neither in this world, nor in the world to come.

I’m not getting the connection to the conversation at hand. Please explain.
Never mind I see what you are saying.

 

[Third_Day]

=rev kevin;6205871]1. Glad we agree on this one.
2.It will not snatch us from being saved It will snatch us from eternal life or salvation. Yes I do believe in free will. I was lost and now I am found.
3. You are still saved **but you can loose **your salvation or your eternal life.

You’ve lost me. Explain please

and not by good deeds or works alone.

That is Catholic teaching. Not by works alone. Not by faith alone. By grace alone through faith in works of love.

How do you come up with what is a mortal sin?

See the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

 

[Third_Day]

I’m not getting the connection to the conversation at hand. Please explain.
Never mind I see what you are saying.

Rev. What is your interpretation of Jesus saying in Matt 12:32 that “whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven”
This is important. It relates to once saved alway saved.

 

[rev_kevin]

The Son of God said there was a sin to be forgiven for, but named another sin that would not be forgiven…in this world or the world to come.

Mat 12:32 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him neither in this world, nor in the world to come.

This is in reference to the Pharisees because they had blasphemed against the Spirit by attributing the power by which Christ did miricales to Satan instead of the Holy Spirit. The unpardonable sin is the deliberatl refusal to acknowledge Gods power in Christ. It indicates a deliberate and irreversible hardness of heart. Sometimes believers worry that they have accidently committed this unforgivable sin. But only those who have turned their backs on God and rejectsed all faith have any need to worry.Jesus said they can’t be forgiven, not because their sin is worse than any other but because they will never ask for forgiveness. Whoever rejects the prompting of the Holy Spirit removes himself or herself from the only force that can lead him or her to repentance and restoration to God.

 

[rev_kevin]

You’ve lost me. Explain please

That is Catholic teaching. Not by works alone. Not by faith alone. By grace alone through faith in works of love.

See the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

You cannot loose being saved once saved always saved, but you can loose your salvation you can loose your eternal life.

So who came up with the mortal sin. Explain it to me.

 

[Teneas]

1. Glad we agree on this one.
   2.It will not snatch us from being saved It will snatch us from eternal life or salvation. Yes I do believe in free will. I was lost and now I am found.
2. You are still saved but you can loose your salvation or your eternal life.
   4 yep
   5.What does this have to do with what I said.
3. Well we will disagree with this one. Jesus is the church. He who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.
4. I stick by what I said.
5. Yes he did.
6. and not by good deeds or works alone.

How do you come up with what is a mortal sin?

OOo help me here. What is the difference in losing eternal life, and losing grace? I think there is a difference in terms on this. Just want it cleared up.

To me, you lose your grace, you lose your eternal life. Simple as that. Are you saying they are not tied hand in hand? Please explain it.

 

[Third_Day]

=rev kevin;6205959]You cannot loose being saved once saved always saved, but you can loose your salvation you can loose your eternal life.

Sorry, Kevin but this doesn’t make any sense. Maybe it’s getting late and it will make sense tomorrow

So who came up with the mortal sin. Explain it to me.

The Catholic Church. What authority did Christ give to His Church? “whatever you bind on earth is bound in heaven”

 

[rev_kevin]

OOo help me here. What is the difference in losing eternal life, and losing grace? I think there is a difference in terms on this. Just want it cleared up.

To me, you lose your grace, you lose your eternal life. Simple as that. Are you saying they are not tied hand in hand? Please explain it.

Salvation is a gift from God. You choose to accept his grace or not to accept his grace of salvation. If you don’t repent your sins you can loose this salvation ie, not go to heaven.
To be saved means you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior. Its like being a Catholic if you are baptized into the Catholic faith you are always a Catholic even if you leave the church you are still a Cathollic even if you go to another denomination you are still Catholic. Like me I went through all the sacriments of the Catholic faith but now I am a Baptist but according to the Catholic faith I’m still Catholic.

 

[rev_kevin]

Sorry, Kevin but this doesn’t make any sense. Maybe it’s getting late and it will make sense tomorrow

The Catholic Church. What authority did Christ give to His Church? “whatever you bind on earth is bound in heaven”

I think your right. I have been at this most of the day.

Now thats another subject.

 

[Third_Day]

=rev kevin;6205942]This is in reference to the Pharisees because they had blasphemed against the Spirit by attributing the power by which Christ did miricales to Satan instead of the Holy Spirit. The unpardonable sin is the deliberatl refusal to acknowledge Gods power in Christ. It indicates a deliberate and irreversible hardness of heart. Sometimes believers worry that they have accidently committed this unforgivable sin. But only those who have turned their backs on God and rejectsed all faith have any need to worry.Jesus said they can’t be forgiven, not because their sin is worse than any other but because they will never ask for forgiveness. Whoever rejects the prompting of the Holy Spirit removes himself or herself from the only force that can lead him or her to repentance and restoration to God.

Kevin, this is why I am worried about you. What you pasted is partially correct and yet you do not believe in what you just posted.
Refusing to ask for forgiveness is blasemphy against the Holy Spirit. THis is a sin that will not be forgiven and yet isn’t this what you believe? Confessing and repenting is a work and you don’t believe in “works”

 

[Third_Day]

Salvation is a gift from God. You choose to accept his grace or not to accept his grace of salvation. If you don’t repent your sins you can loose this salvation ie, not go to heaven.
To be saved means you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior. Its like being a Catholic if you are baptized into the Catholic faith you are always a Catholic even if you leave the church you are still a Cathollic even if you go to another denomination you are still Catholic. Like me I went through all the sacriments of the Catholic faith but now I am a Baptist but according to the Catholic faith I’m still Catholic.

But Kevin, you can send a letter to the Bishop renouncing your Catholic faith and guess what? You are no longer Catholic. You have just lost all claims to the Catholic faith. You can do the same thing with your salvation. You can lose it forever and end up in hell.

 

[fbl9]

Salvation is a gift from God. You choose to accept his grace or not to accept his grace of salvation. If you don’t repent your sins you can loose this salvation ie, not go to heaven.
To be saved means you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior. Its like being a Catholic if you are baptized into the Catholic faith you are always a Catholic even if you leave the church you are still a Cathollic even if you go to another denomination you are still Catholic. Like me I went through all the sacriments of the Catholic faith but now I am a Baptist but according to the Catholic faith I’m still Catholic.

You are willing to be judged as a catholic instead of one who didn’t have the same oppurotunity to know the truth.

First one needs to have heard the good news in order to know what they are repenting of.If one has never heard of God’s offer of salvation how are they to accept or reject.Upon accepting who Jesus is ,followed by repentance this person’s salvation is only begun not a finished work.

 

[rev_kevin]

But Kevin, you can send a letter to the Bishop renouncing your Catholic faith and guess what? You are no longer Catholic. You have just lost all claims to the Catholic faith. You can do the same thing with your salvation. You can lose it forever and end up in hell.

I did and got no responce from the letter. I don’t know why I haven’t heard from them, I have sent at least 3 letters with no responce.

 

[Teneas]

Salvation is a gift from God. You choose to accept his grace or not to accept his grace of salvation. If you don’t repent your sins you can loose this salvation ie, not go to heaven.
To be saved means you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior. Its like being a Catholic if you are baptized into the Catholic faith you are always a Catholic even if you leave the church you are still a Cathollic even if you go to another denomination you are still Catholic. Like me I went through all the sacriments of the Catholic faith but now I am a Baptist but according to the Catholic faith I’m still Catholic.

I was always pretty sure that losing your grace, meant you lost your salvation. You have to have grace to get salvation.

Anyway, I think we are agreeing that you can lose your salvation. I think we are anyway…it’s late.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I did and got no responce from the letter. I don’t know why I haven’t heard from them, I have sent at least 3 letters with no responce.

Maybe they decided to ‘bind’ you and not ‘loose’ you?