A Case for Once Saved Always Saved

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By faith.
Faith is a little more than just being “pretty sure” about something. In the case of Christianity. it’s also about keeping all of the commandments.

Who are you going to go by, the ideas of a few reformists a couple hundred years ago who went to bible college and thought they knew everything or the word of Christ himself and the instructions he gave to his disciples, who were people that ** actually knew Him in real life\b]?**
 
Jesus meets with the woman at the well. He knows her sin and he tells her.He forgives her sins and tells her to go and sin no more.What happens if she does just that? What happens if she is blameless for the remainder of her life?

Isn’t she saved?
If she “sins no more” then she can have a moral certainity that she will be saved. But if she does commit a mortal sin and does not confess and truly repent then she will not be saved. It is very simple. I think what you are missing is that you believe that all sins are equal yet the bible clearly tells us that there are deadly (mortal ) sins and not deadly (venial) sins.
1 John 5:16-17
 
Ok. lets try this for a second.

Jesus meets with the woman at the well. He knows her sin and he tells her.He forgives her sins and tells her to go and sin no more.

What happens if she does just that? What happens if she is blameless for the remainder of her life?

Isn’t she saved?

BTW, you can use reborn if you like, but I like saved better.
Did you actuially read what you just posted?**
You asked if she wouldn’t be saved if she remains blameless for the remainder of her life.
**For the remainder of her life, insinuating that she would have to be sinless until she dies - before she can be saved. **

How could she remain sinless for the rest of her life if her life isn’t over yet and still has many years left?
**Thank you for bolstering the Catholic position that salvation is a lifelong process.

**PS - You can call it what you want, but being reborn is NOT salvation - just as redemption is NOT salvation.
Being reborn means that you now have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and have become new. You now have the possibility of being saved - IF you remain faithful. **
Redemption means that you have been paid for by the finished work of Jesus on the cross.
 
See some people left, others stayed and truly believed and some, like Judas, stayed but tried to use Jesus for personal gain. Now many people today turn away from Christ. Others pertend to follow, you know, by going to church for status approval of family and friends or business contracts. But there are only 2 real responses to Jesus, you either accept him or reject him.
You are correct. We accept Christ’s teachings when we obey Him. We reject Christ’s teachings when we disobey Him.
**
Disobedience is the root/source of all evil.** The love of money is also a root of evil, but it is not the root of all evil.

Satan and one-third of the angels rebelled (disobeyed) and they lost eternal life forever. They committed a spiritually deadly sin and they were not ever given a chance to repent.

Adam disobeyed God’s command and he lost eternal life, not only for himself, but also for all of his descendants. Adam committed a spiritually deadly sin.

If we disobey God’s commands, then we will also lose our inheritance to eternal life just as the angels did and Adam did by their deadly sins of disobedience. Fortunately for us, if we sin deadly sins and lose our justification, we can still repent any time before death and be saved again. And, once we are saved again through repentance and confession; if we continue our obedience to God until we die without falling from grace again, then we will inherit eternal life when we die. John 5:14

Galatians 5:4
You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

These persons fell from grace (lost their salvation) because they attempted to be justified by the works of the Law of Moses instead of accepting Christ’s free gift of grace by faith and maintaining this grace/faith by obedience to His Father’s Will which includes obeying His commandments and doing works of righteousness through love of God Galatians 5:6. They are no longer saved because they no longer have sanctifying grace.

However, if they repent before death, then God will forgive them and also re-justify them and this will give them sanctifying grace once again. It is sanctifying grace on the soul (Holy Spirit abiding within the soul) at the time of death which determines that a person has the right to inherit eternal life.

If a person has defiled his soul/temple with mortal/deadly sin, then the Holy Spirit no longer abides/lives within that soul and so he will not be saved and he will not inherit eternal life when he dies.

If he does not repent after his fall from grace, then the Holy Spirit will not be found abiding within his soul at the time of his death, and so he will not inherit eternal life. It is only the Holy Spirit living within the soul at death which guarantees eternal life. 2 Corinthians 1:22, Ephesians 1:14

The Holy Spirit cannot abide/live in a soul/temple that is defiled by mortal/deadly sin. Since He cannot abide in this soul, then He will destroy/damn it when the person dies. 1 Corinthians 3:16-18 People deceive themselves if they believe that they will still be saved if they commit mortal sins. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21, Ephesians 5:5

Christ restored mankind’s relationship with God that Adam lost 1 Timothy 2:3-6. His sacrificial death offered to His Father reconciled mankind to God, but not all people will be saved and also not all people will inherit eternal life.

**Salvation and inheritance to eternal life are not the exact same things. **

It is necessary for a person to be justified by Christ’s grace in order to be saved, but a person who becomes justified/saved does not necessarily inherit eternal life. The person must retain his sanctification (which he received from Christ through Baptism) until he dies in order to have the right to inherit eternal life.

The individual person first receives justification/salvation/sanctification when he is sacramentally baptized (or has a change of heart for some Protestants which we call Baptism of Desire). God meets/calls everyone exactly where they are spiritually, but He expects them to grow into mature Christians. Sacramental Baptism and/or a change of heart (Baptism of Desire) reconcile us to God. Baptism restores our relationship with God that Adam lost for us.

However, it is up to us to maintain this relationship with Him until we die if we desire to inherit eternal life.

to be continued…
 
Continued:

After we are saved by Christ’s grace, we must then do the good works that God has prepared for us, if we desire to enter into eternal life when we die.

Ephesians 2:10
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

This is a command. It is not a suggestion.

1 Corinthians 14:37
If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord.

If we do not do good works, which includes obeying/keeping God’s commandments, after Christ saves us through Baptism, then we will not be granted the right to enter into eternal life when we die Revelation 22:14.

If we do evil works after we are saved by Baptism, then we will also not enter into eternal life when we die.

Titus 1:16
They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work.

What happens to persons who deny Christ by doing evil works/sins?

Christ denies them. They are denied entrance into eternal life.

Matthew 10:33
But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.

Our works/fruits must be done for holiness and not for evil purposes.

Romans 6:22
But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.

Christ set us free from sin through Baptism (He applies the merits of His sacrifice to our souls through the water and Word of Baptism.) We die to sin/are buried with Him through Baptism.

Romans 6:4
Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Baptism saves us. Walking in obedience to God’s commandments (imitating Christ’s obedient life) until we die continues to save us. If we endure to the end of our lives serving God, then we will receive the inheritance of eternal life.

If we do not continue to obey God and fulfill His will for us for as long as we live, then we will also not inherit eternal life when we die. We will instead be cast into everlasting fire if we do not obey God. Revelation 21:8
**
OSAS is a man-made tradition.** It is abhorrent to God because it opposes/contradicts the true gospel of Jesus which declares that only the righteous (those who work righteousness) will inherit eternal life.

Acts 10:35
But in every nation whoever fears Him (obeys Him) and works righteousness is accepted by Him.
 
You seem to be under the impression that I think I can pick up my salvation, consume it, and discard the wrapping and I am good for life. Nowhere in my discourse should you have gotten this impression. I DO think being a Christian is a life-long commitment. The issue is that OSAS folks do not work for salvation, OSAS believe they work because of salvation. OSAS hinges on the idea really, what happens if I stop working. What if I take a vacation from serving and I never return. Or maybe another comparison would be, what if after a lifetime of working I decide to retire and take it easy.

But nothing in my statement say otherwise, in fact I am trying to go to the point. Once in grace, why couldn’t a person coast all the way. I am not saying they should but could
Originally Posted by Xavierlives
Ok. lets try this for a second.
Jesus meets with the woman at the well. He knows her sin and he tells her. He forgives her sins and tells her to go and sin no more.

What happens if she does just that? What happens if she is blameless for the remainder of her life?

Isn’t she saved?

BTW, you can use reborn if you like, but I like saved better.

Did you actuially read what you just posted?
You asked if she wouldn’t be saved if she remains blameless for the remainder of her life.
For the remainder of her life, insinuating that she would have to be sinless until she dies - before she can be saved.

How could she remain sinless for the rest of her life if her life isn’t over yet and still has many years left?
Thank you for bolstering the Catholic position that salvation is a lifelong process.
Again, the Catholics don’t hold the card for a life-long commitment to Christ. The card that you do hold is you can’t stop. No breaks, no break-downs, no down time. Constant work for salvation. OSAS says, I work with a diligent heart. I might stop for a while. I start back up again. If I die while working, okay. If I die while taking a break, okay.

The reason I mentioned the woman at the well is * she can do nothing* and still fall under grace and that is a very anti-Catholic idea.​
 
What if I take a vacation from serving and I never return. Or maybe another comparison would be, what if after a lifetime of working I decide to retire and take it easy.

OSAS says, I work with a diligent heart. I might stop for a while. I start back up again. If I die while working, okay. If I die while taking a break, okay.
Those ideas just feel ‘lukewarm’ to me…

Did Jesus retire? Did the Apostles retire?
 
True; but you are no longer a practicing Catholic (Catholic in good standing with the Church).

Entrance into Christ’s Catholic Church is through a valid baptism Matthew 28:18-20. This Baptism cannot ever be undone. Baptism leaves a mark or character on the soul and this mark is put on the soul by the Holy Spirit’s power at the moment the soul is redeemed from Original Sin (the soul (and person) are reconciled spiritually to God through the Words and water of Baptism) Ephesians 5:26.

A person who is baptized and redeemed from Adam’s sin can still forfeit eternal life by committing sin after Baptism.

2 Peter 2:1-21
But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.

4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; …— 9 then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment, 10 and especially those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. They are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries, 11 whereas angels, who are greater in power and might, do not bring a reviling accusation against them before the Lord.

12 But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption, 13 and will receive the wages of unrighteousness, as those who count it pleasure to carouse in the daytime. They are spots and blemishes, carousing in their own deceptions while they feast with you, 14 having eyes full of adultery and that cannot cease from sin, enticing unstable souls. They have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are accursed children. 15 They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16 but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man’s voice restrained the madness of the prophet.

17 These are wells without water, clouds carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever. 18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped[d] from those who live in error. 19** While they promise them liberty**, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage. 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.

First saved, and then lost. It would have been better if they had never been baptized (come to the knowledge of the truth) than to be baptized/saved and then lose their salvation later through sin/disobedience Hebrews 5:9.

Persons who claim that they are free (at liberty) to sin after Baptism and yet claim that they are still saved with the right to enter into eternal life are false prophets.

1 Corinthians 5:9-13
I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11** But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother**, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.
12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”

Evil Christian “brothers” who sin will not be saved unless they repent before death.

Matthew 13:40-42
As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
The first sentence was good enough. All the rest of what you wrote is not necessary.
 
Continued:

After we are saved by Christ’s grace, we must then do the good works that God has prepared for us, if we desire to enter into eternal life when we die.

Ephesians 2:10
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

This is a command. It is not a suggestion.

1 Corinthians 14:37
If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord.

If we do not do good works, which includes obeying/keeping God’s commandments, after Christ saves us through Baptism, then we will not be granted the right to enter into eternal life when we die Revelation 22:14.

If we do evil works after we are saved by Baptism, then we will also not enter into eternal life when we die.

Titus 1:16
They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work.

What happens to persons who deny Christ by doing evil works/sins?

Christ denies them. They are denied entrance into eternal life.

Matthew 10:33
But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.

Our works/fruits must be done for holiness and not for evil purposes.

Romans 6:22
But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.

Christ set us free from sin through Baptism (He applies the merits of His sacrifice to our souls through the water and Word of Baptism.) We die to sin/are buried with Him through Baptism.

Romans 6:4
Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Baptism saves us. Walking in obedience to God’s commandments (imitating Christ’s obedient life) until we die continues to save us. If we endure to the end of our lives serving God, then we will receive the inheritance of eternal life.

If we do not continue to obey God and fulfill His will for us for as long as we live, then we will also not inherit eternal life when we die. We will instead be cast into everlasting fire if we do not obey God. Revelation 21:8
**
OSAS is a man-made tradition.** It is abhorrent to God because it opposes/contradicts the true gospel of Jesus which declares that only the righteous (those who work righteousness) will inherit eternal life.

Acts 10:35
But in every nation whoever fears Him (obeys Him) and works righteousness is accepted by Him.
Right once saved always saved but you can loose your salvationn not go to heaven. That is what I have been saying all along. Being saved is not the same as salvation.
 
Since when is “being saved” not the same as going to Heaven? If it isn’t, then “being saved” is just a nonsense phrase that makes no sense.
 
Rev Kevin,

I think there assessment is based on your conclusions of being able to lose your salvation not on your status with the actual CC. You has said something un-Baptist and more Catholic so they were welcoming you back into the fold.
Well thanks but I didn’t have a choice in being Catholic it was my parents choice not mine which is one of the things I disagree with. But I will not change my Baptist status and will consider myself Baptist.
 
Since when is “being saved” not the same as going to Heaven? If it isn’t, then “being saved” is just a nonsense phrase that makes no sense.
When your saved you accept Christ into your life but that is no guarentee that you will have salvation which is going to heaven.
 
Again, the Catholics don’t hold the card for a life-long commitment to Christ. The card that you do hold is you can’t
stop. No breaks, no break-downs, no down time. Constant work for salvation. OSAS says, I work with a diligent heart. I might stop for a while. I start back up again. If I die while working, okay. If I die while taking a break, okay.

The reason I mentioned the woman at the well is she can do nothing and still fall under grace and that is a very anti-Catholic idea.
**Nobody said that Catholics are the only ones who have a lifelong committment to Christ. As I stated before - you are all over the board on this thread.
That’s not an uncharitable comment - just an observation because you seem to change the rules - and your position with every post.

Did I ever say that you had to constantly keep working with “no down time” or “no breaks”. That is a false accusation, friend. Where’s that mutual charity you spoke of?**
**The Catholic position - which IS the Biblical position - is that you can truly have faith and live it, and STILL fall away. I tire of providing the same Scriptural proof ad nauseam but you have YET to address it. **

**Now - if the woman at the well never sinned again after meeting with Jesus, but never had any intention of following him or being baptized - she couldn’t be saved. Salvation doesn’t just come to people who behave well but to those who have new life through Jesus and endure in faith to the end.

For the last time - will you please finally address the following passages on whether or not a Christian can lose their faith and thereby lose the promise of salvation?
Romans 11:22
****
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God’s kindness to you, provided you remain in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”

Hebrews 10:26-27****
If we sin deliberately after receiving knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”

2 Peter 2:20-22****
**For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of (our) Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first. **
**For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them. **
 
When your saved you accept Christ into your life but that is no guarentee that you will have salvation which is going to heaven.
HUH???

HOW can you consider yourself “saved” if you don**'t believe in a guarantee of salvation? You throw around “Saved” and “Salvation” as if they were two different things.**

You seem to be offering a sort of Catholic viewpoint, in that we have a moral assurance of being saved - not a guarantee. The only difference is the wording.

When you are reborn through Baptism, Christ has entered your life through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. This does NOT, however, guarantee salvation, as you have already admitted. It offers you the means of salvation, which is grace through the finished work of Christ on the cross.
 
HUH???

HOW can you consider yourself “saved” if you don’t believe in a guarantee of salvation? You throw around "Saved" and “Salvation” as if they were two different things.
Yes they are 2 different things. Being saved is accepting Christ into your life. Salvation/heaven is a gift from God but you can loose this gift like you stated below.
You seem to be offering a sort of Catholic viewpoint, in that we have a moral assurance of being saved - not a guarantee. The only difference is the wording.
that could be I was raised Catholic.

When you are reborn through Baptism, Christ has entered your life through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. This does NOT, however, guarantee salvation, as you have already admitted. It offers you the means of salvation, which is grace through the finished work of Christ on the cross.
Right when you are reborn or saved Christ has entered you life and will never leave. And you are correct that this does not guarantee salvation. Being saved offers God’s gift of salvation which can be lost unlike being saved which cannot be lost.
 
Ok, I told you how Catholics view the once saved always saved and asked a few questions pertaining to the topic, but you never responded.

Some Protestants call it backsliding, what is your view? Can a person slide from grace and lose salvation?

If you believe a person considered themself saved and lived a good life for 10 years then fell away and started sinning greviously, is that person still saved?
‘Backsliding’ isn’t biblical. You make deicisions based on what you want with regard to morality and behavior and go for it. You begin to get “cut off” from Grace until your Faith cannot be nourished anymore. Yes, you can lose your salvation. But you also have the opportunity to regain it again up to the moment of death.
 
Well thanks but I didn’t have a choice in being Catholic it was my parents choice not mine which is one of the things I disagree with. But I will not change my Baptist status and will consider myself Baptist.
Wow…such a know-it-all. How sad for your soul. :gopray:
 
There is no case for OSAS it’s a doctrine of men. 1Tim 1:5-6 The N.T. is so clear in so many places. The historical record of Our Lord’s Holy Church is also clear. OSAS is a new and false teaching compared to the time tested Apostolic teaching of The Church. St. Peter warned us if we stepped out of the bosom of Holy Mother Church we would be tossed to and fro like the wind.

Pax,
DCD
 
Wow…such a know-it-all. How sad for your soul. :gopray:
What makes you say that I’m such a know-it-all? Could it be that its the truth? Why is the truth sad for my soul? Because I don’t believe the say way you do? Is sarcasm part of the CC teachings?
 
There is no case for OSAS it’s a doctrine of men. 1Tim 1:5-6 The N.T. is so clear in so many places. The historical record of Our Lord’s Holy Church is also clear. OSAS is a new and false teaching compared to the time tested Apostolic teaching of The Church. St. Peter warned us if we stepped out of the bosom of Holy Mother Church we would be tossed to and fro like the wind.

Pax,
DCD
1 Timothy 1:5-6
v.5 The false teachers were motivated by a spirit of curiosity and a desire to gain power and prestige. By contrast, genuine Christians teachers are motivated by sincere faith and a desire to do what is right. Now it may be exciting to impress people with our great knowledge, but high status is based on falsehood is ultimantely empty.
v.6 Arguing about details of the Bible can send us off on interesting but irrelevant tangents and cause us to miss the intent of God’s message. The false teachers as Ephessus constructed vast speculative systems and then agrued about the minor details of their wholly imaginary ideas… We should allow nothing to distract us from the Good News of salvation in Jesus Christ, the main point of Scripture. We should know what the Bible says and apply it to our life daily and teach it to others. When we do this we will be able to evatuate all teachigs in light of the central truth about Jesus. Don’t focus on the minute details of the Bible to the exclusion of tha main point God is teaching you.
I don’t see nothing in these 2 verses about being tossed to and fro like the wind.
The purpose of my instruction is that all Christians there would be filled with love that comes from a pure heart, a clear conscience and sincere faith. But some teachers have missed the whole point. The have turned away from these things and spend their time arguing and talking foolishness.
 
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