A Case for Once Saved Always Saved

[elvisman]

Maybe not for you, I can tell that all of Jesus’ words have not penetrated.

So - you’re saying you ARE a devil?
Jesus said it to the Apostles, so by your logic, you are.

If you’re teaching that every verse of Scripture is aimed an ALL of us - you are teaching falsehoods.**

PS - Who told you that you’re an Apostle? Another arrogant falsehood.

 

[tweetymom]

So - you’re saying you ARE a devil?
Jesus said it to the Apostles, so by your logic, you are.

If you’re teaching that every verse of Scripture is aimed an ALL** of us - you are teaching falsehoods.

PS - Who told you that you’re an Apostle? Another arrogant falsehood.

I can tell that that you are a very rude and arrogant person. We are all called to the great commission to preach the Gospel. Do you do that in a positive way?

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Shawn,

Welcome to the list… You bring up a most difficult issue - actually, it is nothing short of trying to understand the Mind of God!

I am a fairly new Christian. It was explained to me that the person who falls from grace was never truly saved. In my view, there are two problems with this: 1- such an approach negates the infinite saving power of Christ’s death and resurrection, and 2- it is ‘rigging the problem’ to fit the anwer. Since some have failed (damned to hell) then God wanted it that way. And, since God would not waste His Grace, then this person never had it to begin with.

This might be semantics and an excuse to justify the fall. The thing that really confuses me is predestination. Is it G-d’s choice or our choice? With free will I believe I have the choice to refuse G-d’s grace and call to everlasting life. Is this right? And, that is why it is called Free Will. We do have the choice to act as we will - from choosing to respond to a post to choosing to cooperate with the Grace of God.

I am choosing to be a humble and grateful servant and I pray that the hunger to serve will never leave my heart. In the end, I guess it does not matter whether I chose Him or He chooses me as long as I get to spend eternity with Him. To the best of my knowledge, God has chosen each of us to benefit from the Blood of His Son, Jesus Christ. That has been accomplished. Now, it is our turn to trust in His Goodness and Mercy and follow His Commands.

The problem I have with OSAS is the Catholic approach. That’s a good way to put it, Shawn,

Sunday morning I ask for forgiveness and before I even get home I am repeating the same poor behaviors without a second thought. If that is how you live your life, you/I should not be granted grace. But I know Jesus died for my sins. Then act. How do you know what you know? Now I am not saying works buy your way in but if you are truly saved then good works should spill out, naturally. You cannot have one without the other. This is very confusing but as they say progress not perfection.

We can not buy our way into heaven through works. Our protestant brothers are quite right about that. Our ‘ticket’ to Heaven has already been purchased by the Blood of the Lamb. But, just like any ticket - you have to use it - and as opposed to being some type of passive passenger - Christ tell us clearly what is expected in the 25th Chapter of Matthew.

It looks like we must use the Grace God gives us to follow Christ. As we know, Grace is not merited - it is a free gift. Why God choose to give some a particular Grace and not others - is beyond our capability of understanding - it is from the very Mind of God.

God bless

Shawn

 

[elvisman]

I can tell that that you are a very rude and arrogant person. We are all called to the great commission to preach the Gospel. Do you do that in a positive way?

**Yes, I do. **
Another thing - I’m not rude or arrogant. I simply have a disdain for those who purposely misrepresent the truth Catholic faith as you do.

I am called upon by Scripture to admonish the unruly - the disobedient, which, by your words you have proven to be. It’s an act of mercy - not arrogance.

 

[tweetymom]

Yes, I do.
Another thing - I’m not rude or arrogant. I simply have a disdain for those who purposely misrepresent the truth Catholic faith as you do.

I am called upon by Scripture to admonish the unruly - the disobedient, which, by your words you have proven to be. It’s an act of mercy - not arrogance.

according to whom? You? lol Remember you are not an apostle.And how do you know you are supposed admomish anyone? I am not representing the Catholic faith as anything.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I can tell that that you are a very rude and arrogant person. We are all called to the great commission to preach the Gospel. Do you do that in a positive way?

See tweetymom, I can agree we are all called to a royal priesthood, to share the Gospel, but your claim to the Apostleship was in direct response to me pointing out that Christ spoke only to those He appointed.

The other poster had posted:

John 15:16
16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.

When I attempted to put the verse in context, you responded with:

The words Jesus said are for all of us believers,we are all His apostles.

It really has the appearance of being misleading, especially in light of your most recent explanation.

Was this just for the sake of helping someone disagree with a Catholic? It’s a sincere question. If not, please let us know what your purpose was?

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Tweetymom,

The problem, at least as I appreciate it, is that just because you do not agree with someone - you do not have to lash out at them. I really think Elvisman was both accurate and charitable in assessing your statements.

according to whom? You? lol Remember you are not an apostle.And how do you know you are supposed admomish anyone? I am not representing the Catholic faith as anything.

Maybe a clamer approach would be more helpful…

God bless

 

[qui_est_ce]

Hi, Tweetymom,

The problem, at least as I appreciate it, is that just because you do not agree with someone - you do not have to lash out at them. I really think Elvisman was both accurate and charitable in assessing your statements.

It appears to me elvisman called tweetymom’s ***statement ***rude:

That is an ignorant statement.

Here tweetymom is taking elvisman’s disagreement with her statements as an attack on her person.

Thank you for calling me ignorant. You need to pray about your rudenes.

And here she is making a personal attack on elvisman.

I can tell that that you are a very rude and arrogant person.

ahem (coughs)

We are all called to the great commission to preach the Gospel. Do you do that in a positive way?

 

[tweetymom]

See tweetymom, I can agree we are all called to a royal priesthood, to share the Gospel, but your claim to the Apostleship was in direct response to me pointing out that Christ spoke only to those He appointed.

The other poster had posted:

John 15:16
16 You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.

When I attempted to put the verse in context, you responded with:

It really has the appearance of being misleading, especially in light of your most recent explanation.

Was this just for the sake of helping someone disagree with a Catholic? It’s a sincere question. If not, please let us know what your purpose was?

My purpose is NOT to turn anyone from Agreeing or disagreeing with the CC or anyone else. I do not have a mission here except to proclaim the love of Jesus. I try and respect what you believe to be true and I think everyone should respect each other. Unfortunally I have been as guilty as the rest of you in not letting my light shine. I know in whom I believe and in whom I trust, and I will not argue or as most here claim debate. So if you like what I post or not it matters not to me. Jesus is who is important. God Bless

 

[tweetymom]

Hi, Tweetymom,

The problem, at least as I appreciate it, is that just because you do not agree with someone - you do not have to lash out at them. I really think Elvisman was both accurate and charitable in assessing your statements.

Maybe a clamer approach would be more helpful…

God bless

Good for you

 

[tweetymom]

It appears to me elvisman called tweetymom’s ***statement ***rude:

Here tweetymom is taking elvisman’s disagreement with her statements as an attack on her person.

And here she is making a personal attack on elvisman.

ahem (coughs)

Ahem

 

[qui_est_ce]

Yes, I do.
Another thing - I’m not rude or arrogant. I simply have a disdain for those who purposely misrepresent the truth Catholic faith as you do.

I am called upon by Scripture to admonish the unruly - the disobedient, which, by your words you have proven to be. It’s an act of mercy - not arrogance.

according to whom? You? lol Remember you are not an apostle.And how do you know you are supposed admomish anyone? I am not representing the Catholic faith as anything.

[BIBLEDRB]matthew 18:15-17[/BIBLEDRB]

 

[Xavierlives]

Hi, Xavierlives,

I hope both of you guys realize you are very blessed to have survived your near-death experiences… Xavierlives - take better control of your asthma … and Prodigal, just catch the bus…don’t let it catch you!

As I appreciate the situation, we really do not have a lot of information on people making perfect acts of contrition while they are in the process of dying. So, we have a situation where a person is baptized, embraced Christ at one point in their life and then made a conscious act to separate ourselves from God’s Love (our full realization of this Love is Heaven) and now we are about to face all eternity opening up before us as we approach the White Throne.

Claiming, “Lord, Lord…” falls short. Looking at the ‘sheep’ assembling in one section and you are in the process of joining the ‘goats’ does not offer much promise. Ah, as the smell of sulphur opens up your nostrils and that crackling sound of the flames gets louder, you are suddenly aware that your mark of Baptism (of being a child of God and heir to Heaven) will now forever serve as a badge you have defiled. In brief, Dante was right! You can abandon all hope!

With all of the references given of those who once held to the Faith and then left - how anyone can make a distinction between being with God AND having some kind of ‘reward’ is beyond me. God is the REWARD. Heaven is being in the presence of God. Hell is the primarily the separation of the soul from God and secondarily, the physical aspects of fire and the like.

God bless

Well, I think a OSAS believer would probably agree to a couple of points you make. When we consider the verse “not everyone who says lord, lord,” there is a bit of ambiguity. The language implies, not everyone, but some. When this verse taken in chorus with several others, we see there has to be a relationship. If I am walking down the street and I see John Corapi and say, “Father, Father!” He is going to turn to me and say, “Do I know you” I can’t say, “Yes, I listen to you every day.” The same goes for Christ. When I say, “Lord, Lord!” He will turn and say, “It is so good to see you!” I will reply, “And I you… and I you.”

A OSAS believer has that same relationship. Like the relationship between the Father and the prodigal son. The father didn’t say, “err… who are you?” No. He recognized his son from a distance! To a OSAS believer, it doesn’t matter when you head to the father, but the fact that you do.

The rewards are the inheritance. As previously stated, some want to say the inheritance is heaven, but that doesn’t make sense. The story of the prodigal son has two points. If you stay on the path of the older son, you will receive an inheritance and heaven. The prodigal son sold his inheritance but still received the blessings of being with his father in heaven. If the inheritance was heaven, then nothing that the Father says to the older son would make sense it would be “You have your inheritance (heaven), but for now your brother has returned with no inheritance(hell), so lets eat rejoice and eat of the fatted calf because he is off to hell.” No what makes perfect sense is, “You have your Inheritance (rewards) and heaven, so lets rejoice and eat of the fatted calf because your brother has made it to heaven.”

 

[tweetymom]

[BIBLEDRB]matthew 18:15-17[/BIBLEDRB]

Suppose I can do the same?

 

[qui_est_ce]

My purpose is NOT to turn anyone from Agreeing or disagreeing with the CC or anyone else. I do not have a mission here except to proclaim the love of Jesus. I try and respect what you believe to be true and I think everyone should respect each other. Unfortunally I have been as guilty as the rest of you in not letting my light shine. I know in whom I believe and in whom I trust, and I will not argue or as most here claim debate. So if you like what I post or not it matters not to me. Jesus is who is important. God Bless

The problem is you come to a forum, make debateable statements, for which you refuse to supply documentation, then when people disagree with you, you make personal attacks on them. This against forum rules.

A Forum is a place for DISCUSSION, not hit and run statements. You should be prepared to defend your arguments, otherwise your presence here is merely combative.

If you make another personal attack, I will have to report you. I’ve been warned for much lesser offences.

 

[rev_kevin]

Funny i thought i was Catholic,thanks for telling me.
Self appointed to be lead by the Holy Spirit in all things.That kind of believer.
Only part…did you forget the part of thinking just what it meant for your parents to choosen by God for you?

Answer my questions. You are doing the same thing you have accused “my kind” of doing.

 

[rev_kevin]

Nope - you’re NOT.
I hope you will be, though.

Where does it state that its a process?

 

[Rocket_Man]

Jesus spoke to individuals sometimes, such as John 21:15-18, where he asked Peter 3 times if he loved him. He then told Peter to feed his sheep and alluded to what manner of death by which he would glorify God. You and Rocket_Man BOTH need to read the Scriptures in CONTEXT.

The point is Elvisman, that you throw out John 15:6 without John 15:16 and separate His instruction for some to apply to all of us and others only to His apostles. In the same words of life He tells those He has chosen to abide in Him and yet thereafter He then promises them the very same commission.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Suppose I can do the same?

Look, you asked elvisman why he thought he had a right to admonish you, I gave Scriptural support for his claim.

Now why would you wonder if it applied to elvisman but not you? Give me some Scriptural support for your position, please.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

My purpose is NOT to turn anyone from Agreeing or disagreeing with the CC or anyone else.

tweetymom, you can look through all your posts and see the greatest majority are apparent disagreements with Catholics, on many fronts.

I do not have a mission here except to proclaim the love of Jesus.

We all love Jesus, Catholic and Protestant alike. No one has a corner on that market. We discuss much more out of our love of Christ and the majority take time to explain themselves, use scriptures supporting their view, or other sources. They don’t just post opinions, that seemingly are in direct conflict with other posts, without taking time to explain ourselves, through our love of Christ.

I try and respect what you believe to be true and I think everyone should respect each other.

I agree. Everyone should respect each other. Is it respect to respond to a post that someone has taken the time and effort to put together, with prayer and reflection, to carefully articulate a view, with a ‘snap’ disagreement with no explanation, even when an explanation of a viewpoint is requested? I’ll be honest, it not only invalidates anything posted from a person like that, it reflects poorly on the person who uses those tactics.

If we’re here to share our love of Christ, shouldn’t we take time to explain ourselves to others?

Unfortunally I have been as guilty as the rest of you in not letting my light shine. I know in whom I believe and in whom I trust, and I will not argue or as most here claim debate. So if you like what I post or not it matters not to me. Jesus is who is important. God Bless

Viewing another’s guilt as a justification is saying, two wrongs make a right. We are all only human and prone to make mistakes.

We all know who we believe in and who we trust and it’s God.

These are forums, designed to discuss theologies, that is their purpose. There are going to be debates and even arguments. If you’re not here to discuss or debate, then you have to ask yourself why you are here, otherwise people are going to continue call you out on your posts.

This morning as I said my prayers, I remembered you. I don’t want an adversary and I really do care for you. I hope we can start over and share our love of Christ together.