A Case for Once Saved Always Saved

  • Thread starter Thread starter Xavierlives
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Why on earth would a manger scene, or Jesus preaching on a hillside repulse me? These are beautiful images! But once the crucifixion is over, there is no NEED to depict Him on the Cross any longer!
The Incarnation is also over, and yet, we put out Nativity scenes every Christmas. 🤷
Christians all know that Jesus died a horrible death on the Cross, for us and was beaten so severely that His face was unrecognizable! So why is this image attractive to you?
ā€œAttractiveā€ has nothing to do with it. It’s an essential element of the story of salvation. We use images to tell the story - both the Nativity scene, and the Crucifix.
 
The Incarnation is also over, and yet, we put out Nativity scenes every Christmas. 🤷

ā€œAttractiveā€ has nothing to do with it. It’s an essential element of the story of salvation. We use images to tell the story - both the Nativity scene, and the Crucifix.
Is it over? Are you saying that Jesus is no longer God? Does He not have a glorified body? And why do we put out creches at Christmas? Crucifixion is indeed part of the salvation process, as is Resurrection! So, He had to be crucified, buried, spend three days in the bowels of the earth, and be risen from the dead, to proclaim victory over the grave! But I respect your choice to remember His tragic death by means of a crucifix! Can you respect my choice not to?
 
St. Paul says work on your salvation with fear and trepidation. Does that mean OSAS or does that mean you must always work toward salvation.
So, what exactly do you suppose Paul meant by this verse? Work OUT your salvation with fear and trembling, or work towards your salvation? And fear and trembling about what?
 
Is it over? Are you saying that Jesus is no longer God? Does He not have a glorified body?
Does His death on the Cross not continue to save us from our sins? šŸ™‚
And why do we put out creches at Christmas?
To remember that God humbled Himself to come into the world in exactly the same way that we do. šŸ™‚
 
At some point he must have, or else why would he have given up everything to follow Him? 🤷

All these things did happen - but Judas did not become a follower of Christ for personal gain, since there was nothing to gain, at the time. Each and every one of the 12 gave up their family ties, their jobs, their homes, and every other material consideration, to wander with Jesus throughout the whole country of Israel. So, there must have been a spark of faith, at the beginning. Who can say how it got quenched, or even when (since it seems clear that during the last several months of Christ’s ministry, Judas was already out of the program, and probably only stuck around because he had no place else to go).

However, that having been said, the writer of the Letter to the Hebrews was not writing to Judas, but to second-generation converts who had gone through the conversion process, who had been taught in person by the Apostles, and who had been carefully screened for membership in the Church. Since Christianity was illegal by that time (since both St. Paul and St. Peter had already undergone the death sentence for their preaching) it’s not likely that any of these people had joined the Church to make business connections, or to impress a member of the opposite sex - their faith must have been real when they made their original Profession of Faith at their Confirmation ceremony.
How do you suppose God intended getting Jesus crucified, therefore fulfilling prophecy? If not Judas, it would have been someone else; because the Jews did nohave the authority to execute anyone! So, they needed someone to get ā€œcloseā€ to Jesus, and at the prescribed time(Isn’t God’s timing phenomonal), betray Christ into the hands of the Romans!
 
How do you suppose God intended getting Jesus crucified, therefore fulfilling prophecy?
They were determined to have Him crucified, three days before they even knew that Judas existed, and certainly before Judas offered Him up to them. They would have found a way on their own.
If not Judas, it would have been someone else; because the Jews did nohave the authority to execute anyone!
Right - and yet, it was still the Sanhedrin who passed sentence on Him.
So, they needed someone to get ā€œcloseā€ to Jesus, and at the prescribed time(Isn’t God’s timing phenomonal), betray Christ into the hands of the Romans!
It was Caiaphas who sold Jesus to the Romans; not Judas. Judas sold Him to the Sanhedrin - but they were already on to Him, by that time, anyway.
 
Does His death on the Cross not continue to save us from our sins? šŸ™‚

To remember that God humbled Himself to come into the world in exactly the same way that we do. šŸ™‚
If I remember correctly, He said ,ā€œIt is finished!ā€ I take this to mean that His work in the world, as a human, at least was done!
 
If I remember correctly, He said ,ā€œIt is finished!ā€ I take this to mean that His work in the world, as a human, at least was done!
He was signifying that the Sacrifice was finished - not that salvation itself was finished (otherwise, how can people not born yet at the time of the Crucifixion receive salvation?)
 
They were determined to have Him crucified, three days before they even knew that Judas existed, and certainly before Judas offered Him up to them. They would have found a way on their own.

Right - and yet, it was still the Sanhedrin who passed sentence on Him.

It was Caiaphas who sold Jesus to the Romans; not Judas. Judas sold Him to the Sanhedrin - but they were already on to Him, by that time, anyway.
When Satan entered Judas, it became clear that he was being used by both God and Satan! God had planned all along for Christ to be crucified, and knew that the Jews had no authority to carry out the execution, but the Romans did. So, yes, the Sanhedrin paid for the betrayal, and had long since passed sentence on Jesus; but, Pilate, fearing some type of revolt, or uprising, conceded to the crucifixion, even though he may have had reservations about it! The Romans had no problems with Christ, but knew that the Jews could riot if they did not carry out the crucifixion! I don’t believe that Judas knew from the beginning, that he was going to betray his ā€œfriendā€, until Satan entered him; which was allowed by God!
 
He was signifying that the Sacrifice was finished - not that salvation itself was finished (otherwise, how can people not born yet at the time of the Crucifixion receive salvation?)
I never indicated that the salvation was over, just that He had finished the work His Father had given Him to do! And as we all know, His death on the Cross and Resurrection, are the reasons that we have the promise of salvation!šŸ‘
 
I never indicated that the salvation was over, just that He had finished the work His Father had given Him to do! And as we all know, His death on the Cross and Resurrection, are the reasons that we have the promise of salvation!šŸ‘
ā€œIt is finishedā€ has very deep meaning. You might find Scott Hahn’s The Fourth Cup to be well worth the read. Here is a link to get you started:

catholic.com/thisrock/1991/9109fea1.asp
 
When Satan entered Judas, it became clear that he was being used by both God and Satan! God had planned all along for Christ to be crucified, and knew that the Jews had no authority to carry out the execution, but the Romans did. So, yes, the Sanhedrin paid for the betrayal, and had long since passed sentence on Jesus; but, Pilate, fearing some type of revolt, or uprising, conceded to the crucifixion, even though he may have had reservations about it! The Romans had no problems with Christ, but knew that the Jews could riot if they did not carry out the crucifixion! I don’t believe that Judas knew from the beginning, that he was going to betray his ā€œfriendā€, until Satan entered him; which was allowed by God!
Well I am sure, this is where God’s plan really sticks in Satan’s craw. God could see the end result and while Satan had no idea.
 
Well I am sure, this is where God’s plan really sticks in Satan’s craw. God could see the end result and while Satan had no idea.
Just imagine if Satan would have known exactly who he was helping to crucify!
 
For the same reason that a slave needs to wear his chains - to remember that he has been bought with a price, and to whom his life belongs. šŸ™‚
We are slaves to sin, and our own selfish, destructive habits! Slaves wear chains, because their masters do not want them to get far if they run off! We sometimes keep our chains on, because we do not fully believe that we have been delivered!
 
We are slaves to sin, and our own selfish, destructive habits! Slaves wear chains, because their masters do not want them to get far if they run off! We sometimes keep our chains on, because we do not fully believe that we have been delivered!
Catholics don’t wear ā€œour chainsā€ because we believe we are slaves to sin, we wear them because we like to remember who released us from certain death and how he did it.

I’ll gladly be a slave to Jesus, he IS my master!
 
Catholics don’t wear ā€œour chainsā€ because we believe we are slaves to sin, we wear them because we like to remember who released us from certain death and how he did it.

I’ll gladly be a slave to Jesus, he IS my master!
As am I a slave to Christ! I know that he freed me from those chains; you know,ā€œmy chains are gone, I’ve been set freeā€¦ā€?
 
They were determined to have Him crucified, three days before they even knew that Judas existed, and certainly before Judas offered Him up to them. They would have found a way on their own.

Right - and yet, it was still the Sanhedrin who passed sentence on Him.

It was Caiaphas who sold Jesus to the Romans; not Judas. Judas sold Him to the Sanhedrin - but they were already on to Him, by that time, anyway.
Yes, but would that have fit into God’s perfect plan for the crucifixion?
 
For the same reason that a slave needs to wear his chains - to remember that he has been bought with a price, and to whom his life belongs. šŸ™‚
Mankind was burdened by OT legalism. Christ broke those bonds of slavery to the law, freeing us to serve in brotherhood with Him … so says Paul, so teaches John. We serve Christ via the ā€˜spirit’ of the law, not the letter.

Christ never condemned slavery, even Paul taught Christian slaves to stay with their masters … but, to realize they had been set free by Christ. It wasn’t til approx 1533, that Pope Paul 3 banned slavery within Catholicism, and it took another 300+ yrs for it to happen in New World.

A world w/o slavery is really a myth. People are born in slavery, and only find their freedom in Christ.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top