A Casual Acquaintance of Yours Is a Homosexual

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So what if friends are homosexuals ? That is far less important than the fact that they are human beings made in the image of God.​

I don’t see why there is this obsession with homosexuality among Christians - not only is it never mentioned in the Gospels, but, far more to the point, a lot of things that are rebuked very specifically by Jesus are never mentioned. Why are there no websites deploring the sins of malice and wrath & envy & selfishness, for example ? These are far more common: which in no way makes them any less ruinous. Homosexuality has so far caused no wars - but wars beyond count have been caused by aggressiveness, pride, envy, and cupidity.

Jesus had plenty to say about religious callousness when he made the “hero” of one parable not a priest, not a Levite, not any kind of Jew - but a Samaritan. Yet religious viciousness is to be found all over the web, on sites which belittle Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox, Jews, Muslims, atheists, and a host of others.

That is “cafeteria Christianity”, or nothing is.

I see no websites called Godhatestheunforgiving, or Godhateshypocrisy, or Godhateslies - just Godhatesfags (and a number of parodies of it). Yet Jesus was very clear indeed about these sins: could it be that they are ignored, because they are sins any of us might commit ? If so, that would make us no better in principle than those revolting [insert insulting epithet here] - and that would mean we could not look down on them.

A casual acquaintance who is homosexual, is no different from one who is irritable, or a gossip, or light-fingered, or lazy: yet these don’t seem to be ostracised - so why ostracise those who are homosexual merely because they are homosexual ? ##
 
Those things you mentioned are all generally condemned even by our neo pagan culture. Homosexual acts are celebrated and affirmed constantly. That is one big difference.
 
Hi guys!

It seems the answer to this poll for a Christian must either be the first or the second answer. He could not be complacent and simply remain silent about it, for that would be assisting in the sin of the homosexual. The Christian must say something and his attitude must be every bit as clear as the homosexual who has made his sexuality public.
 
Gottle of Geer said:
## So what if friends are homosexuals ? That is far less important than the fact that they are human beings made in the image of God.

I don’t see why there is this obsession with homosexuality among Christians - not only is it never mentioned in the Gospels, but, far more to the point, a lot of things that are rebuked very specifically by Jesus are never mentioned. Why are there no websites deploring the sins of malice and wrath & envy & selfishness, for example ? These are far more common: which in no way makes them any less ruinous. Homosexuality has so far caused no wars - but wars beyond count have been caused by aggressiveness, pride, envy, and cupidity. ##

Sorry but you don’t see the selfish, malicious, envious, wrathful etc trying to normalize that behavior. You don’t see other sinners upholding their sin as normal behavior. You don’t see other sinners trying to enlist others to lie, cheat, steal, or murder. There are no “Liars Lobbyists” or PAC supporting adulterers or the proud.
Gottle of Geer:
I see no websites called Godhatestheunforgiving, or Godhateshypocrisy, or Godhateslies - just Godhatesfags (and a number of parodies of it). Yet Jesus was very clear indeed about these sins: could it be that they are ignored, because they are sins any of us might commit ? If so, that would make us no better in principle than those revolting [insert insulting epithet here] - and that would mean we could not look down on them.
THat is such a red herring although it gets tossed out repeatedly. Please differentiate between those who make a public issue of their behavior, who have ‘gay pride’ parades or “Gay Day” at school. If indeed we had 'Addicts Pride" parades or school days dedicated to learning to be greedy and envious, I imagine you’d see plenty of objections. It’s the PUBLIC displays that many find disturbing. What people want to do in the privacy of their homes is their business. But trying to normalize abnormal behavior and designating anyone who doesn’t play a long a homophobic bigot is a different story. I feel the same way about all such behavior issues. Keep them to yourself and we’ll both be happy. Don’t enlist school children or others to carry your sword to battle. Don’t try to influence confused teenagers into thinking they might be homosexual when they are just confused teenagers.
Gottle of Geer:
A casual acquaintance who is homosexual, is no different from one who is irritable, or a gossip, or light-fingered, or lazy: yet these don’t seem to be ostracised - so why ostracise those who are homosexual merely because they are homosexual ? ##
As usual, the homosexual apologist overstates the case. NO ONE HAS SAID OSTRACIZE the homosexual. No one has said persecute, harass or bother the homosexual. We should treat everyone with compassion and kindness but that does not mean agreeing with supporting or justifying deviant behavior of any kind

Lisa N
 
I treat homosexuals with the same respect as I treat heterosexuals.
 

As usual, the homosexual apologist overstates the case. NO ONE HAS SAID OSTRACIZE the homosexual.​

BUT people have suggested to ostracize the children who homosexuals have adopted. THere was a thread about that unfortunately, and a reverand of all people said it was a good idea.
 
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Lilyofthevalley:

As usual, the homosexual apologist overstates the case. NO ONE HAS SAID OSTRACIZE the homosexual.​

BUT people have suggested to ostracize the children who homosexuals have adopted. THere was a thread about that unfortunately, and a reverand of all people said it was a good idea.
I read that thread and I believe people were not saying to take out the custodial adults’ sins upon the children. There was some discussion if the children should remain in a Catholic school if the parents insisted on flaunting their sexual relationship and passing themselves off as just another ‘married’ couple.

I do not believe in homosexuals procuring children whether through AI, adoption, or surrogate mothers. I’d rather stop this problem at the source than pick on the unfortunate children who are subjected to the selfish motives of the adults.

Lisa N
 
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fix:
Can you provide a quote?
I wish I could but I was told by a Priest (who would not lie about such a thing) about this statement made by the the Cardinal Ratzinger…see my reply to the other poster. Sorry about that. It’s not unsubstaniated claims I am making the document does exist.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
 
I do not believe in homosexuals procuring children whether through AI, adoption, or surrogate mothers. I’d rather stop this problem at the source than pick on the unfortunate children who are subjected to the selfish motives of the adults.

Lisa N

I am curious – How does one stop homosexuals from “procuring” children? Even if the laws were changed regarding adoption, then you would also have to have them all sterilized.

I doubt that either will ever happen.
 
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Trelow:
No that is scandal. And every bit as sinful as engaging in sodomy.
Dear Trelow

Hi. It isn’t scandal at all for two people of the same sex to share a life together without sex. The Church doesn’t condemn this at all. It is chaste for two people of the same sex to be in a chaste relationship and live together but as sister/sister or brother/brother. It is not sinful at all. What sin have they committed? They have not had sex, where is the sin?

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
 
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Bella3502:
I

I am curious – How does one stop homosexuals from “procuring” children? Even if the laws were changed regarding adoption, then you would also have to have them all sterilized.

I doubt that either will ever happen.
You are quite right. But that it doesn’t seem feasible doesn’t mean someone can be opposed to the policy. At one point a reputable physician would not provide AI to anything other than a married couple. Now anyone can get a sperm donor. Too bad. I oppose homosexuals adopting children as well. That could be outlawed but of course we cannot sterilize them.

Lisa N
 
Gottle of Geer said:
## So what if friends are homosexuals ? That is far less important than the fact that they are human beings made in the image of God.

I don’t see why there is this obsession with homosexuality among Christians - not only is it never mentioned in the Gospels, but, far more to the point, a lot of things that are rebuked very specifically by Jesus are never mentioned. Why are there no websites deploring the sins of malice and wrath & envy & selfishness, for example ? These are far more common: which in no way makes them any less ruinous. Homosexuality has so far caused no wars - but wars beyond count have been caused by aggressiveness, pride, envy, and cupidity.

Jesus had plenty to say about religious callousness when he made the “hero” of one parable not a priest, not a Levite, not any kind of Jew - but a Samaritan. Yet religious viciousness is to be found all over the web, on sites which belittle Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox, Jews, Muslims, atheists, and a host of others.

That is “cafeteria Christianity”, or nothing is.

I see no websites called Godhatestheunforgiving, or Godhateshypocrisy, or Godhateslies - just Godhatesfags (and a number of parodies of it). Yet Jesus was very clear indeed about these sins: could it be that they are ignored, because they are sins any of us might commit ? If so, that would make us no better in principle than those revolting [insert insulting epithet here] - and that would mean we could not look down on them.

A casual acquaintance who is homosexual, is no different from one who is irritable, or a gossip, or light-fingered, or lazy: yet these don’t seem to be ostracised - so why ostracise those who are homosexual merely because they are homosexual ? ##

Couldnt have said it better 🙂
 
Dear friend

I think this is the document that the Priest refered to , if not it contains similar pastoral guidance:

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19861001_homosexual-persons_en.html

The characteristic concern and good will exhibited by many clergy and religious in their pastoral care for homosexual persons is admirable, and, we hope, will not diminish. Such devoted ministers should have the confidence that they are faithfully following the will of the Lord by encouraging the homosexual person to lead a chaste life and by affirming that person’s God-given dignity and worth…

An authentic pastoral programme will assist homosexual persons at all levels of the spiritual life: through the sacraments, and in particular through the frequent and sincere use of the sacrament of Reconciliation, through prayer, witness, counsel and individual care. In such a way, the entire Christian community can come to recognize its own call to assist its brothers and sisters, without deluding them or isolating them…

The human person, made in the image and likeness of God, can hardly be adequately described by a reductionist reference to his or her sexual orientation. Every one living on the face of the earth has personal problems and difficulties, but challenges to growth, strengths, talents and gifts as well. Today, the Church provides a badly needed context for the care of the human person when she refuses to consider the person as a “heterosexual” or a “homosexual” and insists that every person has a fundamental Identity: the creature of God, and by grace, his child and heir to eternal life…



God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
 
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springbreeze:
Dear Trelow

Hi. It isn’t scandal at all for two people of the same sex to share a life together without sex. The Church doesn’t condemn this at all. It is chaste for two people of the same sex to be in a chaste relationship and live together but as sister/sister or brother/brother. It is not sinful at all. What sin have they committed? They have not had sex, where is the sin?

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
If they are both know to suffer from SSA, then yes it is. One cannot know the state of their chasity, and the occasion of sin would be too great for it to be prudent.

2284 Scandal is an attitude or behavior which leads another to do evil. the person who gives scandal becomes his neighbor’s tempter. He damages virtue and integrity; he may even draw his brother into spiritual death. Scandal is a grave offense if by deed or omission another is deliberately led into a grave offense.

2286 Scandal can be provoked by laws or institutions, by fashion or opinion.
Code:
 **Therefore they are guilty of scandal who establish laws or ****social structures leading to the decline of morals and the corruption of religious practice, or to "social conditions that, intentionally or not, make Christian conduct and obedience to the Commandments difficult and practically impossible**."This is also true of business leaders who make rules encouraging fraud, teachers who provoke their children to anger, or manipulators of public opinion who turn it away from moral values.
And in reference to the letter you quoted, I see no reason to think that the Chruch condones the behavior you suggest, in fact it says quite the opposite.

[center said:
LETTER TO THE BISHOPS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
ON THE PASTORAL CARE OF HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS

]
12. What, then, are homosexual persons to do who seek to follow the Lord? Fundamentally, they are called to enact the will of God in their life by joining whatever sufferings and difficulties they experience in virtue of their condition to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross. That Cross, for the believer, is a fruitful sacrifice since from that death come life and redemption. While any call to carry the cross or to understand a Christian’s suffering in this way will predictably be met with bitter ridicule by some, it should be remembered that this is the way to eternal life for all who follow Christ.

It is, in effect, none other than the teaching of Paul the Apostle to the Galatians when he says that the Spirit produces in the lives of the faithful “love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, trustfulness, gentleness and self-control” (5:22) and further (v. 24), “You cannot belong to Christ unless you crucify all self-indulgent passions and desires.”

It is easily misunderstood, however, if it is merely seen as a pointless effort at self-denial. The Cross is a denial of self, but in service to the will of God himself who makes life come from death and empowers those who trust in him to practise virtue in place of vice.

To celebrate the Paschal Mystery, it is necessary to let that Mystery become imprinted in the fabric of daily life. To refuse to sacrifice one’s own will in obedience to the will of the Lord is effectively to prevent salvation. Just as the Cross was central to the expression of God’s redemptive love for us in Jesus, so the conformity of the self-denial of homosexual men and women with the sacrifice of the Lord will constitute for them a source of self-giving which will save them from a way of life which constantly threatens to destroy them.

Christians who are homosexual are called, as all of us are, to a chaste life. As they dedicate their lives to understanding the nature of God’s personal call to them, they will be able to celebrate the Sacrament of Penance more faithfully and receive the Lord’s grace so freely offered there in order to convert their lives more fully to his Way.
 
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Trelow:
If they are both know to suffer from SSA, then yes it is. One cannot know the state of their chasity, and the occasion of sin would be too great for it to be prudent.

2284 Scandal is an attitude or behavior which leads another to do evil. the person who gives scandal becomes his neighbor’s tempter. He damages virtue and integrity; he may even draw his brother into spiritual death. Scandal is a grave offense if by deed or omission another is deliberately led into a grave offense.

2286 Scandal can be provoked by laws or institutions, by fashion or opinion.

**Therefore they are guilty of scandal who establish laws or **social structures leading to the decline of morals and the corruption of religious practice, or to "social conditions that, intentionally or not, make Christian conduct and obedience to the Commandments difficult and practically impossible."This is also true of business leaders who make rules encouraging fraud, teachers who provoke their children to anger, or manipulators of public opinion who turn it away from moral values.

And in reference to the letter you quoted, I see no reason to think that the Chruch condones the behavior you suggest, in fact it says quite the opposite.
Dear Trelow

Hi:wave:

Yes I agree with you. If the occassion of sin would be great enough to lead to sinning by living with each other then that should be seriously considered and not be applicable to any given homosexual person who feels that living with the one they love would cause them to sin.

Having said this we cannot know the heart of another, that is down to the conversations and confession of Priest and Parish member and whether that would be an occassion for sin. I am sure the desire to love and be loved is greater rather than the desire for sex and for many homosexuals a chaste relationship is possible with kind, loving and committed pastoral care.

I don’t think we can presuppose whether a homosexual is chaste or not (unless they say themselves) nor presume what another heart and soul holds in it and their relationship with God and therefore it would be prudent not to judge, marginalise nor condemn, but rather for their delicate and truly heavy cross to be led by highly trained and knowledgeable Priests and Bishops, as outlined in the then Cardinal Ratzingers document as opposed to laypeople who do not possess such skills.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
 
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springbreeze:
I wish I could but I was told by a Priest (who would not lie about such a thing) about this statement made by the the Cardinal Ratzinger…see my reply to the other poster. Sorry about that. It’s not unsubstaniated claims I am making the document does exist.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
What bothered me was the phrase monogamous relationship. What does that mean when speaking of celibate homosexuals? And I do not see it in the vatican document.
 
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springbreeze:
Dear Trelow

Hi:wave:

Yes I agree with you. If the occassion of sin would be great enough to lead to sinning by living with each other then that should be seriously considered and not be applicable to any given homosexual person who feels that living with the one they love would cause them to sin.

Having said this we cannot know the heart of another, that is down to the conversations and confession of Priest and Parish member and whether that would be an occassion for sin. I am sure the desire to love and be loved is greater rather than the desire for sex and for many homosexuals a chaste relationship is possible with kind, loving and committed pastoral care.

I don’t think we can presuppose whether a homosexual is chaste or not (unless they say themselves) nor presume what another heart and soul holds in it and their relationship with God and therefore it would be prudent not to judge, marginalise nor condemn, but rather for their delicate and truly heavy cross to be led by highly trained and knowledgeable Priests and Bishops, as outlined in the then Cardinal Ratzingers document as opposed to laypeople who do not possess such skills.

God Bless you and much love and peace to you

Teresa
Hi springbreeze!
As I see it, the homosexual couple invokes the sin of scandal any time that they have a close relationship with a person of the same gender. It seems therefore that the Church would have to condemn any close intimate relationship the homosexual would enter into. This is why the Church’s Courage ministry is inherently flawed. It allows homosexuals intimate contact with exactly the type of people they should not have that type of contact with . . . other homosexuals. In a Christian sense, the only appropriate life for the homosexual is one of isolation and solitude. I have not yet met anyone who can raise a credible argument as to why this is not the case.
 
Lisa N:
You are quite right. But that it doesn’t seem feasible doesn’t mean someone can be opposed to the policy. At one point a reputable physician would not provide AI to anything other than a married couple. Now anyone can get a sperm donor. Too bad. I oppose homosexuals adopting children as well. That could be outlawed but of course we cannot sterilize them.

Lisa N
Hi Lisa N!

Why can’t we sterilize them? as far as I know, Buck v Bell has not yet been overturned.
 
Other Eric:
Hi springbreeze!
In a Christian sense, the only appropriate life for the homosexual is one of isolation and solitude. I have not yet met anyone who can raise a credible argument as to why this is not the case.
Jesus Christ did not call His disciples to “isolation and solitude” as the norm of life. Some are called and given the charism of solitude/solitary witness under spiritual direction, but never isolation from fellow believers. Jesus did not consign the lepers of His day social isolation. The Church calls the person with homosexual orientation (as heterosexual) to chastity of life (whether married, single, avowed celibate). Those struggling with overcoming/managing (not accepting) a disordered desire need other Chrisitians to be faithful to the life of personal holiness that God has called them to and “bearing one another’s burdens”.
 
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felra:
Jesus Christ did not call His disciples to “isolation and solitude” as the norm of life. Some are called and given the charism of solitude/solitary witness under spiritual direction, but never isolation from fellow believers. Jesus did not consign the lepers of His day social isolation. The Church calls the person with homosexual orientation (as heterosexual) to chastity of life (whether married, single, avowed celibate). Those struggling with overcoming/managing (not accepting) a disordered desire need other Chrisitians to be faithful to the life of personal holiness that God has called them to and “bearing one another’s burdens”.
Hi felra!

Christ calls different people to different challenges. It is therefore not unreasonable to assume that solitude is the challenge that He has commissioned for the homosexual. The Way of the Cross is not meant to be pleasant, and as my father is fond of pointing out, isolation made saints out of the hermits. It seems to me that the homosexual must overcome his disordered passions alone. To do otherwise, as trelow has pointed out, is to invoke the sin of scandal and live out just another sinful lifestyle choice.
 
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