A Catholic article: "If the Catholic Church is the true Church, why is it that Evangelical Protestants are more successful in making converts?"

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Long story short: A lot of Catholics mistake evangelising with proselytism, I sincerely think that. I will read the article in a few minutes (about to pray Divine Mercy chaplet) thank you for sharing, though.
 
adamhovey1988 said:
Long story short: A lot of Catholics mistake evangelising with proselytism, I sincerely think that. I will read the article in a few minutes (about to pray Divine Mercy chaplet) thank you for sharing, though.
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Isn’t evangelizing simply a specifically Christian form of proselytism?
 
I’m not sure what the difference is. I do know that Catholics and Orthodox are not to proselytize to one another. Of course, it is a totally different circumstance compared to Protestants.

ZP
 
Because it is easier to be a protestant. The Catholic Church has the fullness of Truth and none of the Protestant denominations have all of it. If doctrines in a certain Protestant denomination are difficult to go along with, they can just switch churches.

When you are Catholic it’s just not that easy when you have an issue.
 
Paul_Edwards said:
I think Steve Skojec would disagree, who was orthodox and became catholic, and he himself quotes St Ignatius as part of his reason for converting who said “Make no mistake, my brothers, if anyone joins a schismatic he will not inherit God’s Kingdom.”
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I just love being told that I, as an Orthodox convert, am going to hell. :roll_eyes:

But, to the topic of this thread: I think Catholicism (and my own Orthdoxy) make an intellectual and lifestyle demand that evangelical churches just don’t. I think we have a great treasury of richness in faith that the evangelicals don’t, but that richness doesn’t come to those who just want to stay on the surface.
 
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If you’re asking me, no. Lutheran to Orthodox.

There has been a very small number of folks here, though, who have tried to convince me that it doesn’t matter, anything short of becoming Catholic is enough for condemnation.
 
Isaac14 said:
If you’re asking me, no. Lutheran to Orthodox.

There has been a very small number of folks here, though, who have tried to convince me that it doesn’t matter, anything short of becoming Catholic is enough for condemnation.
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There are many Catholics who do not understand Extra ecclesiam nulla salus (“Outside the Church there is no salvation”)
Catholic Answers has an article about this:


It concludes with this:

The Catechism (once again quoting Lumen Gentium ) summarizes all this as follows:
Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it. (CCC 846)

I won’t quote more, but the whole piece is well worth reading.
 
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As a previous Catholic converted to the Baptist denomination, and then reverted back to my faith 10 years ago with more zeal and love for God then I ever had-- a truly prodigal son-- i can say that while my opinion is personal it is more than relevant to answer your question.

As a cradle Catholic, i never really appreciated my faith.
I saw alot of bad things going on and equated sinfulness with holiness, and the two are quite distinct. I saw the scandal of the Church and equated her servants with the Lord. Never a good idea. And I saw the massive evangelism efforts of protestant denominations, with the flashy movies, the music and the “cool” Jesus-hipster vibe and…
I had a conversion to the faith in combat, and the love of Christian “Protestant” brothers helped to revive my relationship and love with Jesus…and for that I am forever grateful!

As a Baptist “brother” in the Faith, I can say that loving Jesus is not exclusive to denominations, but rather inclusive. Jesus loved the Samaritans as much as he loved the Israelites of Jerusalem. For even for the Samaritan woman in John 4:24, Jesus would share His love and His greater vision of the True Church He would build.

God is so much farther above our “shadow” of worship here on earth. And it is most difficult to say whether one man is wrong or right, or who is truly faithful and who isn’t, since God alone knows the heart of a man and whether he truly believes in the Son, Jesus Christ, for their salvation. With that said, there is no indifferentism here. it is not a subjective choice to worship God, and God alone decides the truth of our worship and our Sacrifice of our praise. It is He alone who decides our faithfulness and our reward of a Heavenly home, which must never be assumed because of where one occupies their “seat” on a pew.

John Paul II once said, “The truth is not always the same as the majority decision.”
and there is much wisdom in this. It took a mental breakdown and a prayer to Mother Mary, and the help of a pamphlet from Padre Pio in an Army Chapel to convince me to return to the
One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church…in spite of the many reasons i could see in contemporary Catholic culture not to do so. Our Church has been scandalized severely and it now not unreasonable why many should choose to leave her-- except that Christ Himself was also scandalized and persecuted. So in retrospect, so shouldn’t her disciples be scandalized and persecuted from without and from within like our Lord? Are we greater than our Master that we should escape the humility of the Cross?
 
It is in spite of the glory of the Protestant faith’s efforts to evangelize and make more converts, and in spite of the Church with all her history of failures and scandals, and in spite of myself for all my sins and my worldly idea of what faith should look like when i responded to the promptings of Padre Pio to grovel at the foot of the Cross and take Mary to be my Mother as Christ Himself calls all faithful disciples to do!

Padre Pio reminds me that I cannot have Christ as my brother if I cannot claim Mary as my Mother, and this is what I now reply to my Protestant brothers of the Faith. Even though I know they preach Christ (maybe out of envy of the Church, or not), there is a sense of unity that Christ prayed for in John 17 that is not being met in our culture today. We need our brothers to stop “protesting” and start rebuilding the Church Christ married, instead of further scandalizing her with schism and hatred. I pray, not for Ecumenism, but for the peace of Christ and a desire of the Holy Eucharist, and Christ True Presence in the heart of every hungry and thirsty soul, regardless of their denomination-- this Presence can only be found in His Church! And like the Samaritan Woman, may we also proclaim the Messiah who is coming to be Him who tells us all that we are ever done and yet loves us anyways.

Pax Christi,
Kerry
 
Some reasons that occur to me off the top of my head:
  1. Protestantism is very ingrained in U.S. culture; and Catholicism, for the most part, is not. Evangelicalism in particular is a very American form of Protestantism. For most Americans, Catholicism seems foreign in comparison with Evangelicalism, and becoming Catholic requires more of a culture shift in one’s thinking and worship than does becoming Evangelical. Not to mention, many evangelical/Baptist/non-denom-type churches actually preach against Catholicism as being a false form of Christianity. So many Christians just automatically stay from the Catholic faith and don’t even allow themselves themselves to consider it seriously in any way.
  2. Agree with Isaac14 above that Catholicism and Orthodoxy “make an intellectual and lifestyle demand that evangelical churches just don’t.” For some who are looking for a deeper, historically rooted faith, this richness is appealing, of course; but for others it can be intimidating, or else they will dismiss it as Catholic Church adding extra things to Christianity.
  3. We as a Church are still recovering from the watered-down catechesis of the '70s and '80s and all the massive liturgical changes that were suddenly forced upon the faithful in the '60s. As a result of the first, many Catholics don’t know their faith that well and many don’t practice it much. You aren’t going to win many converts if you don’t know or practice your own faith. In many Catholic parishes (though far from all) the liturgy and music is banal, and there is little sense of the sacred. So that isn’t the most appealing thing to seekers and visitors, unfortunately.
  4. The article linked to in the OP says that “Evangelicals are doing more with less, and Catholics are doing less with more.” I think that is true. Evangelicals make much more of an effort to convert people and draw them to their churches. If we as Catholics made evangelism more of a priority, I think we would see more success. (And we have to start with our own people.) An example of Catholics focusing on evangelization (and not just making quick converts but building genuine friendships and making disciples) and seeing great fruit is the excellent campus ministry FOCUS.
  5. Becoming a Catholic is a process that takes time. The Church requires some form of instruction such as the RCIA process and classes, and this normally takes 9 months to a year. Though the RCIA process in many parishes is not perfect, at least it is an attempt to try to form and instruct people in the faith so that they can prayerfully grow and discern before they make a life-changing decision.
 
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Jesus Himself said,

Does this scandalize you?" [This Bread and Wine business?]
If then you shall see the Son of Man ascend up where He was before? It is the Spirit that quickens, for the flesh profits nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
But there are some here who DO NOT BELIEVE. For Jesus knew them from the beginning, who they were who did not believe, and who he was [within Jesus’s presence and followers] who would betray him."

many left him that day and did not return… [sounds like a schism to me here]
and He asks Simon Peter, “Will you go as well?”
and Peter replied, “Where we go Lord, you have the words of eternal life, and we have become to believe that you are the Christ, the Son of the Living God!”
~ John 6:61-70

Lets continue to pray as Catholics living in our current generation today, that we can still hold the faith of St. Peter, both in The Holy Eucharist of Christs Flesh and Blood"- his Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity, and in the Living Christ still present in His Church. Seems like both are in dire challenge within the pews today. Yes it is easier to be Protestant, because no denomination requires its members to display such remarkable and miraculous beliefs of Faith to stay and remain True to His Church that Christ founded.

Peace and Good!
Kerry
 
This doesn’t really work anymore. If anything it’s just ammo for people who hate religion.
 
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EnglishTeacher said:
Agree with Isaac14 above that Catholicism and Orthodoxy “make an intellectual and lifestyle demand that evangelical churches just don’t.”
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And I disagree with this.

My husband and I were Evangelical Protestant for the first 47 years of our lives. I grew up in one of the most influential Evangelical churches in the U.S.; several great Evangelical “celebs” (pastors, teachers, writers) came out of my church.

I think that Evangelicalism makes overwhelming demands on the intellect and on lifestyle.

E.g., Evangelicals are expected to have a daily “Quiet Time” or “Devotions” or “Morning Watch,” which involves reading/studying the Bible and praying.

Just reading the Bible won’t cut it. Evangelicals do “inductive” Bible studies, and “verse-by-verse” studies, utilizing study aids like concordances, encyclopedias, Greek dictionaries, etc.

If you don’t do these things, you need a good reason; have a new baby, have a serious medical condition, have to care for elderly parents. Busy at job won’t cut it. Make time. Get up before dawn. Use your lunch hour or break time. Chop Chop–no time to waste in the Kingdom of God!

And along with these studies, Evangelicals are expected to read the latest Christian books, along with the classics like C.S. Lewis and yes, Augustine’s works, Thomas Aquinas, etc.–my husband and I have floor to ceiling bookshelves filled with “Evangelical” books, and that’s AFTER we purged out all the “chaff!”

As for lifestyle demands–until recently, almost all Evangelicals were teetotalers because of the written Statements of Faith of their church, because of the traditions and customs of Evangelical Protestants, and because of their own personal convictions that alcohol is a gateway to sin. That alone is enough to make many people “Just Say No” to Evangelicalism!

But it doesn’t stop at alcohol, oh no! Evangelicals are supposed to be the healthiest, most well-balanced people in the world. Being overweight is a sign of a lack of discipline, which indicate the need for a deeper commitment to Jesus and a willingness to be open every minute to the leading of the Holy Spirit, Who will never lead anyone to over-indulge and be inactive.

And the mental and emotional health of Evangelicals is supposed to be stellar–they have the “Mind of Christ”!

And let’s talk about parenting and family life! Not only should husbands and wives love each other and be enjoying a fulfilling sex life, but they should be raising their children in the fear and admonition of the Lord, safeguarding their souls, protecting their innocence, probably homeschooling since all the schools are “worldly,” and getting their children and teens involved in the life of their church by taking them to Sunday School, Children’s Clubs, Children’s Choir, and all the youth group activities.

And if the kids are involved in church, grownups are even MORE involved! My husband and i literally spent 5/6 evenings or days a week at church, or involved with a church activity! Our list of involvements and responsibilities could have won “Evangelical of the Year!”

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I think John 6 graphic illustration of “the turning away” pretty much sums up well the history of the Church and the Reformation. A few points…
  1. God is not interested in human success stories, only our humility in receiving Christ His Son for salvation like “manna in the desert.”
  2. God has provided a specific way to receive Christ- His Body (flesh) and His Blood (drink)-- another words The Holy Eucharist which is the only way we can receive Christ and His Salvation (v/ 54-55)
  3. Many would be scandalized by this “Divine Absurdity” and turn away. In fact the 16th century pretty much sums up the scandal and the massive turning away from the Church’s sacraments en masse.
  4. The only answer Christ can give is the words He gave us— there is nothing left to do. This isn’t fun and yes, to turn away invites the real possibility of burning in Hell.
  5. Christ Himself is not scandalized that others would stop following Him, we are. He knows who will come to Him and who wont based upon the Real Presence, and He invites all to believe knowing that some simply wont and can’t.
  6. God calls all men to repentance, but He alone knows those that willfully wont. Its not our place to judge, but simply place the invitation to the Holy Eucharist in the Mass before all men. Those who believe will stay and eat and live. Those who wont will leave and die in the desert journey.
Again, lets encourage each other while it is still called Today, before its too late!
Hebrews 10:26-30… it is no small thing to trample on the Son of God, and profane and treat as an unholy thing the blood of the Covenant which sanctifies them, and who thereby insults the Spirit of Grace?.. it is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God!

Pax Christi
…and please confess your sins and go to Mass to receive Him as soon as possible. 😉
you never know whether you will gain another day, hour or even another breath?!
 
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But now that we are Catholic–we go to Mass once a week. We read a little book called “The Word Among Us”–takes about 5 minutes. My husband prays a daily Rosary, and I pray a Rosary once in a while. I play piano for Mass when I am needed, about once every two weeks. We used to do a Holy Hour at our Perpetual Adoration Chapel, but work demands made that really difficult, so now we go once in a while. We give a generous offering, but not 10%–trying to pay off debts now that we are in our 60s.

We read our local Catholic newspaper, but there really aren’t any “popular” Catholic books that EVERY Catholic is expected to read and study.

We still worry about our weight, but only because we are older and closer to the grave. We’re pretty certain that no Catholics are judging us because we’re chubby.

And that’s pretty much it! Easy peasy!

Yes, we know that there are lots and LOTS of things that Catholics CAN do–but no one EXPECTS Catholics to do ALL of these things! So different than our Evangelical Protestant churches which not only expected us to be doing, acting, thinking, living a certain “way,” but would not hesitate to call us out if we appeared to not be living that “way” faithfully.
 
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