A Catholic article: "If the Catholic Church is the true Church, why is it that Evangelical Protestants are more successful in making converts?"

[sainteriksrose]

Paul is not the only one whose writings made it in to the New Testament. And for me your point isn’t clear…

Too, those writings made it in because the Holy Spirit indicated what the CHRISTIAN Holy Bible was to contain, through the church Jesus built. So…no hoops. However, there are definitely what I would call guidelines. And mankind NEEDS these guidelines to help us to remain on the straight and narrow path to God.

 

[Horton]

people who proclaim to be shepherds and preach HATRED against those religions that praise and honor JESUS THE CHRIST ARE THOSE WHO PAUL WARNED ABOUT IN HIS LETTERS

Are you claiming the Catholic Church preaches hatred? If so, you need to stop listening to the anti-Catholic preachers you’ve been listening to and learn for yourself, possibly by coming to a Mass and experiencing it for yourself.

 

[steve-b]

see If the Catholic Church is the true Church, why is it that Evangelical Protestants are more successful in making converts? | Catholicsay

A considered response to this question.

The response in that article was

"Success in making converts doesn’t necessarily prove the truth of a religion. If it did, then Mormonism and the faith of the Jehovah’s Witnesses would have to be the truest forms of Christianity since they’re growing even faster than Evangelical Protestantism."

Agreed, except JW’s and Mormons aren’t Christian.

and IMV,

To me, success is how many people in the end, go to heaven, Nothing else matters. Since Jesus says in the end, few are saved unfortunately, that tells me, according to Jesus, who does all the judging of everyone, that looking ahead in time, most people apparently die in mortal sin.

So​

Regardless of stripe, Protestantism is one of the great heresies in History The Great Heresies | Catholic Answers

Then​

I 'm asking , converting to heresy of whatever stripe, is a success? I don’t think so.

 

[steve-b]

too many religions have so many rules that have people jumping through hoops to belong , especially the roman catholic church . in the gospels of Mark and Luke to para-phrase what JESUS said “” if they are preaching curing the sick in the name of JESUS , they are for us , don’t bother them “” . people who proclaim to be shepherds and preach HATRED against those religions that praise and honor JESUS THE CHRIST ARE THOSE WHO PAUL WARNED ABOUT IN HIS LETTERS

Today the news is inundated with criticism of quid pro quo statements made by people of high authority. As in “Do this or else” kinda statements. Rules being set up with conditions. Bottom line, There are good quid pro quo statements and then there are bad statements. It has to do with the context of the statement.

For example.

Jesus said,

“If you love me you will keep my commandments” John 14:15

IOW, a conditional statement. So, can a person who won’t obey Jesus commands, love Jesus? Not according to Jesus.

OR when Jesus says​

John 6:53-56 “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; 54 he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.

A Huge, conditional statement,. Do this or else. So Are those suggestions or commands / rules?

Those are commands, / rules, … agreed?

IOW statements that begin with 'IF" and " UNLESS" for example, means what follows, is to do this or else kinda statements … true?

SO​

What happens if one doesn’t obey those rules / commands?

BTW, scripture is chalk full of rules / commands to follow. And I would also say, one could call many of them quid pro quo statements. John 6:53-56 would qualify

Re: The Catholic Church and rules

The writers of the NT were all, as in 100%, in the Church they were writing to and for. Meaning they were ALL in the Catholic Church. That has been the name of the Church from the 1st century. For space considerations, see HERE

 

[steph03]

Popularity is not a direct indicator of truth…

 

[TC3033]

Everyone is welcome to attend the Mass because JESUS is the One welcoming them, and imo that should be enough of a reason to go.

As a non-Catholic I’ll say: I’ve heard this before, but have sometimes questioned it. Many times I’m made to feel unwelcome at the Catholic Church. My wife has noticed it as well, as though her and the kids are good there but I’m not. If everyone is welcome, then why is this?

 

[Horton]

Then why go? You say this every time there is a discussion like this one. Why continue to go when you believe everyone there doesn’t want you there?

I have never seen a non-Catholic spouse treated poorly in any parish I’ve been in. I’ve never heard anyone say they have been treated poorly as a non Catholic spouse. None of my friends who are married to a non Catholic spouse have ever made a complaint like yours. I have never seen anyone make comments here on CAF even close to the ones you make.

I’m not saying you are not experiencing this but could it be for another reason than you being non Catholic?

 

[sainteriksrose]

You mean by parishers there?

If anyone is actually deliberately rude to you, that is their sin and you can say a prayer for them and then concentrate on the Mass, because Jesus is why we’re there.

 

[joeambrose]

Thanks for your reply, it’s really interesting. Seems to me solutions could be either by moving away from the singular focus on Catholic schools as the church’s educational ministry, or by giving the schools themselves greater impetus to reach the community in diverse ways. Neither seems an easy solution however.

 

[joeambrose]

Sorry you were made to feel unwelcome

 

[commenter]

Still, parochial schools should be preserved wherever possible.

 

[Crusader13]

I think it has a lot to do with how they view their faith in Jesus and in scripture. Even if there are differences within the various denominations, there is less ambiguity when it comes to what they view as necessary for salvation.

For example, when they speak of Jesus to non-Christians, a belief in Him is absolutely essential for salvation. They may not say to the other person they are going to hell, but they emphasize that Jesus Christ is the only way.

Then they reinforce their understanding by saying something similar to “what does scripture say?” And they turn to that verse in support of this belief.

Catholics, unfortunately in the present day no longer universally approach evangelization with the goal of salvation in mind. Instead the Church and a belief in Jesus are no longer preached as necessary for salvation anymore.

So when talking to non-Catholics about why they need Jesus and the Church; the need is no longer emphasized because we tell them that there are privileged and non-privileged routes to heaven.

Yet, we don’t reinforce this understanding by saying “the Bible says…” instead we say “well Vatican II says…”. And if we keep insisting that everyone under the Sun can or will be saved by remaining a non-Catholic, then why do they need to convert!!!

 

[sainteriksrose]

Maybe you should talk to the priest there, because you may go up for a blessing during Communion…

Then you and your family can all go up together!

 

[binky]

seems my statement was taken as an attack on the ROMAN CHURCH ,NOT SO, IT IS JUST A VIEW POINT OF ALL RELIGIONS TODAY . THE BIBLICAL STATEMENTS MADE ARE AS ALL BIBLICAL STATEMENTS I SEE AND HEAR FROM ALL RELIGIONS . I MEAN NO ARGUMENT OR ANGER JUST HONEST DISCUSSION . HAVING BEEN RAISED ROMAN CATHOLIC IT IS A FACT THAT DISAGREEMENTS WITH CHURCH RULES ARE TAKEN AS HERETICAL ALMOST ALWAYS . IF THE VARIOUS RELIGIONS DON’T LISTEN TO WHAT IS SAID ABOUT THEIR SPIRITUAL COMPASS NOTHING WILL HAPPEN SPIRITUALLY .ONE CAN UNDERSTAND THAT THE ’ VATICAN " ON SPIRITUAL MATTERS AS COMMUNION BAPTISM ETC HAVE THEIR SCRIPTURE TO ACT FOR IT . YOUNGER PEOPLE GROW VERY LEARNED BY LEAPS AND WE WILL FIND SCRIPTURE AS USED BY THE VARIOUS RELIGIONS WILL BE SEEN AS CORRUPTED BY THE SHEPHERDS OF THE RELIGION RATHER THAN OF WORDS " JESUS THE CHRIST " . PARDON THE BIG PRINT I HAVE SIGHT PROBLEMS . PRAY WE FIND THE TRUTH IN CHRISTIANITY

 

[steve-b]

seems my statement was taken as an attack on the ROMAN CHURCH ,NOT SO, IT IS JUST A VIEW POINT OF ALL RELIGIONS TODAY . THE BIBLICAL STATEMENTS MADE ARE AS ALL BIBLICAL STATEMENTS I SEE AND HEAR FROM ALL RELIGIONS . I MEAN NO ARGUMENT OR ANGER JUST HONEST DISCUSSION . HAVING BEEN RAISED ROMAN CATHOLIC IT IS A FACT THAT DISAGREEMENTS WITH CHURCH RULES ARE TAKEN AS HERETICAL ALMOST ALWAYS . IF THE VARIOUS RELIGIONS DON’T LISTEN TO WHAT IS SAID ABOUT THEIR SPIRITUAL COMPASS NOTHING WILL HAPPEN SPIRITUALLY .ONE CAN UNDERSTAND THAT THE ’ VATICAN " ON SPIRITUAL MATTERS AS COMMUNION BAPTISM ETC HAVE THEIR SCRIPTURE TO ACT FOR IT . YOUNGER PEOPLE GROW VERY LEARNED BY LEAPS AND WE WILL FIND SCRIPTURE AS USED BY THE VARIOUS RELIGIONS WILL BE SEEN AS CORRUPTED BY THE SHEPHERDS OF THE RELIGION RATHER THAN OF WORDS " JESUS THE CHRIST " . PARDON THE BIG PRINT I HAVE SIGHT PROBLEMS . PRAY WE FIND THE TRUTH IN CHRISTIANITY

Sorry about your sight problems. You can enlarge any text in order to read more easily with your computer tools or zoom features etc.

To your response,​

I don’t see

How your response answered my response to you HERE . And I don’t see where you opened any links. Maybe it’s due to your sight problems.

Re: Christianity,​

it’s become a rather broadly understood term, because of all the 10’s of thousands of divisions that have occurred within it, due to Protestantism’s divisions

Thus​

A person can be “Christian” yet not be in Our Lords Church.

AND,​

They might have even been in Our Lord’s Church at one time in their life, but left.

Points being asked​

Is that division OK?
Is that division free of consequences for the one who is divided?

 

[TC3033]

Then why go? You say this every time there is a discussion like this one. Why continue to go when you believe everyone there doesn’t want you there?

I’m a good husband and better Dad. If my family goes to church, I go to

I have never seen a non-Catholic spouse treated poorly in any parish I’ve been in. I’ve never heard anyone say they have been treated poorly as a non Catholic spouse. None of my friends who are married to a non Catholic spouse have ever made a complaint like yours. I have never seen anyone make comments here on CAF even close to the ones you make.

I’m intrigued if it’s a subject you cover much. I always like to hear positive stories. Around our old neighborhood is was often “driveway” fodder between us and our neighbors across the street. They’re in the same boat as us, but their kids are gone. She travels a lot, it used to be he’d go to Mass even she was 1/2 way around the world. Last few years he isn’t going if she’s not.

I’m not saying you are not experiencing this but could it be for another reason than you being non Catholic?

¯_(ツ)_/¯, no clue…I kinda doubt it. My wife agrees and neighbor across the street has experienced it to…that guy had a real doosie of an experience.

Maybe you should talk to the priest there, because you may go up for a blessing during Communion…

Then you and your family can all go up together!

Eh, maybe. I’ve done it twice. Once at a family wedding and once at a funeral. I find it fairly awkward, but I think my wife likes when I go.

You mean by parishers there?

Ya, a little bit. Maybe more “leadership”?

Eh, it is what it is. We moved this summer, if my wife decides to change parishes we’ll see how it goes.

 

[sainteriksrose]

Me too, but whether this is actual or just how it’s being perceived, rude people are no reason to not attend the Mass or become a Catholic.

A person’s rudeness is on them. We do not need to react to it, but should look neither to the left or right, and mind our own soul’s journey.