A Catholic in a Protestant church

[GraceDK]

I’m reading this post (and here on this forum) because I am in the same boat. I was “raised Catholic” very loosely speaking, became Protestant in high school, and did not return to Catholicism until 9 years ago after marrying. I did have some real experiencing God moments in my involvement as a Protestant.

It wasn’t difficult, since it seems in every church except the Catholic Church people are friendly toward you and seek you out for your time and talent and to find where you fit into involvement in a ministry. Since returning to Catholicism, because I do believe it holds the fullness of truth, I have had the exact opposite experieince: I actually try to involve myself and either meet with indifference or am literally rebuffed. I am spiritually starving and my relationship with God is suffering. This is not one Catholic parish either; we have spent months trying to involve ourselves at no fewer than six since my husband went through RCIA six years ago. Sometimes we are chased off earlier than others by dowright rudeness. All in all there is a pervasive feeling that we are just faces in the crowd.

And here is where I am right now. Last summer, I attempted to volunteer with VBS and to take my daughter. After two days, we quit going. It was so ill-planned as to not be planned at all, dull and lifeless (I did what I could, but my ideas were not heeded). It was better for my daughter in my opinion to not go at all than to get the impression of the Church being like that, which was always my experience growing up. This summer, I put two of my children in VBS at a large Protestant parish nearby. The experience was amazing, I’ll skip the details here. I am very distressed that they cannot seem to have that kind of religious experience in the Catholic Church. I can tell them it’s wonderful everyday, but eventually they’re going to have to see for themselves.

Awhile back I heard a priest speak on EWTN about the complaint of “no fellowship”–he said maybe not, but we have the Real Presence–what is fellowship compared to that? Well my question is, how can we not have fellowship in spite of that? God did make our human nature to be very social.

I thought this was maybe just a regional problem! I also have blamed the Church being “so big,” but feeling the overwhelming warmth at that mega-church, that excuse isn’t going to fly anymore. I don’t know where to begin addressing it.

Dear sister in Christ.
I hear you. I really do.
And I think the sickness of it all is made apparent in many of the posts here on this thread. Someone says: “I am starved”, are is told that she should not feel like that since we have the Eucharist.
If you say you “need more” you are treated like someone who must be admonished, someone forced to make a hierarchy out of holy things as a test for the other to see that you have the correct answers. You are treated like someone who needs “feelings” an “emotional highs”… false and transcient states of a subjective mind.
If you say you need fellowship and that you are lonely and distressed you are told that its somehow a privilege to be continuously spiritually dry because there is some resemblance to the dark night of the soul of the mystics.

I say this is an error. The dark night comes through holiness and detachment. Its a purification from God… The dryness of being in a parish that is poor in human warmth and enthusiasm is not the will of God.
I have seen holy suffering being taken as a hostage too much on these boards to excuse tolerating illness of mind, soul and body.
Jesus said: If someone is sick let the elders go out and lay hands on them and they shall become healed. Its written that Jesus healed everyone.
But we put suffering up on a pedistal… we turn it into an end in itself.
Whenever someone raises her voice she is implicitly called proud, unspiritual and unfair.
Post modern lack of faith when it comes to manifestations of the Sprirt is concealed behind the mantra that suffering and dryness are good and holy.

I come to think of the child in HC Andersens fairy tale, who yelled: “But he is not wearing anything!”

It beats me as odd that even when a sister of ours says:" I am spiritually starving", we still tell her: “Do whatever, get dry to the point of death, but don’t go to the assemblies of the Evangelicals.”
What, so we call other Christians “brothers” but think of them as robbers and brain washers?
I always think: Better a enthusiastic Evangelical than a half dead Catholic. How could I have any interest that my sisters starve??? And why would I refuse to believe that they are starving when they say there is nothing for their children in their parish, nothing for them in the ways of fellowship, preaching, music and other ministries???

The way to keep the problem, is when we won’t admit we have one.
I say we have alot to learn from other churches… whether they be evangelical, orthodox, messianic, pentecostal or protestant…

We think we have everything? The Fullness…- that we can sit as islands and worship the Body of Christ, the Trinitarian fellowship, the dogmas about sacrificial love, alone.
We have deep problems, and the sooner we admit it the better.

rcandap: I am truly sorry for your experience. I just hope you keep the courage. I have hope that a new generation of strong and Spirit filled catholics are being raised. Lets be part of the New Pentecost and do what we can.
Peace to you.

The Spirit is intangible. Yet He is more real than any of us. We know Him by His effects. He is the Life.

 

[rcandap]

rcandap: I am truly sorry for your experience. I just hope you keep the courage. I have hope that a new generation of strong and Spirit filled catholics are being raised. Lets be part of the New Pentecost and do what we can.
Peace to you.

The Spirit is intangible. Yet He is more real than any of us. We know Him by His effects. He is the Life.

Thank you for your kind words! I think this is why I choose to send my kids to a Vacation Bible School at another church. Maybe I’m hoping that they’ll see something there they can bring back to the Catholic Church, however basic–even just the smiles and warm greetings.

For me, personally–I just appreciate the politeness in the parking lot!!

 

[vz71]

Thank you for your kind words! I think this is why I choose to send my kids to a Vacation Bible School at another church. Maybe I’m hoping that they’ll see something there they can bring back to the Catholic Church, however basic–even just the smiles and warm greetings.

For me, personally–I just appreciate the politeness in the parking lot!!

While we send our children to other churches for the ‘spritual starvation’ we believe is in our own, we should not be surprised if what they bring back is poisonous.

The answer to feeling starved in a Catholic church is not going to a protestant church.
That is the tradition of Luther, and it causes division.

The proper answer to any issue found within the church is found within the church.
Be it additional prayer, conferences with the pastor on the issue, or perhaps even stepping up to the plate and forming your own prayer group within the church to address these feelings.

Perhaps if we ceased “hoping that they’ll see something there they can bring back to the Catholic Church” and instead brought it ourselves…

 

[Shlomo]

I believe any identity crisis stems from two questions being unresolved:

1. With whom I identify on Earth
2. With whom I identify on Heaven.

I address those issues on my site:

sites.google.com/site/vinishsky/OneGodTwoWorlds
sites.google.com/site/vinishsky/human-identity

Love
Shlomo

 

[GraceDK]

I believe any identity crisis stems from two questions being unresolved:

1. With whom I identify on Earth
2. With whom I identify on Heaven.

I address those issues on my site:

sites.google.com/site/vinishsky/OneGodTwoWorlds
sites.google.com/site/vinishsky/human-identity

Love
Shlomo

Come on Shlomo.
Why dont you join the conversation some more.
Is this just “hit and run” or are you interested in the topic here.
I see your name is Shlomo. Are you an Israeli Jew? Where do you worship? A Messianic congregation? … In Jerusalem, or Haifa maybe?

I would like to turn your question around.
Not, whom do I identify with.
But who identifies with me, on earth and in heaven.
The answer is the Messiah, the Brigde, the Foundation.
His identification with us teaches us everything we need to know about human dignity and the love we are called to live.

Shalom and Peace.

 

[GraceDK]

While we send our children to other churches for the ‘spritual starvation’ we believe is in our own, we should not be surprised if what they bring back is poisonous.

The answer to feeling starved in a Catholic church is not going to a protestant church.
That is the tradition of Luther, and it causes division.

…

But if people spiritually starve to death, you have bigger problems than reformed Christainity. Suddenly you might be dealing with a child who has become agnostic or atheistic. In my church many young people come out of obligation or they cease to come when they get old enough to move away from home. They have not been truly evangelised, they live in sin and drink alcohol and are not really present… They are nominal christians. I wish they would go to other churches that might preach to them and challenge them in new ways so they would have a real transformation, a living relationship with Christ.
In many Catholic congregations around where I live, there is no catechesis and no good preaching, and the youth groups are made of young people who are assimilated into the society around us, the culture of death. They sit around drinking alchohol and make fun of being “saved”.
The liberalism and secularism that has come into the Church is causing more deep division than there has ever been between Evangelicals and Catholics. Why? because serious Evangelicals and Catholics believe in Christ and try to follow His commands of faith and love. The atheist does not have Christ.
And believe me… I have heard poisonous being preached from Catholic pulpits. More than from Evangelical ones.

But again, I live in Europe… here the Christian churches don’t slander each other as much as they apparently do in America. We actually try to work together for the good of souls, knowing that we want our fellowmen to be saved. When I therefore hear about a person who joined the orthodox, messianics, evangelicals etc. I praise God. Because they gave their life to Jesus, and He said clearly: I have no favourites.
I am in a prayer group of Evangelicals and pentecostal and non-denominational. we hope the Lutherans will join us too… We need to stand together to pray for revival and be a witness to the lost sheep.

 

[vz71]

But if people spiritually starve to death, you have bigger problems than reformed Christainity. Suddenly you might be dealing with a child who has become agnostic or atheistic. In my church many young people come out of obligation or they cease to come when they get old enough to move away from home. They have not been truly evangelised, they live in sin and drink alcohol and are not really present…

The answer to this must lie within God’s church.
It may well seem a worthy endeavor to go to other churches to try and find something you are missing in the Catholic church, but ultimately you will come away with something contrary to the Catholic faith.

They are nominal christians. I wish they would go to other churches that might preach to them and challenge them in new ways so they would have a real transformation, a living relationship with Christ.

Within the Catholic faith, absolutely.

In many Catholic congregations around where I live, there is no catechesis and no good preaching, and the youth groups are made of young people who are assimilated into the society around us, the culture of death. They sit around drinking alchohol and make fun of being “saved”.

Alcohol consumption in and of itself is not sinful.
The concept that it is was not something you were taught within a Catholic church.
Perhaps you have already come away from these other churches with more then you intended?

The liberalism and secularism that has come into the Church is causing more deep division than there has ever been between Evangelicals and Catholics. Why? because serious Evangelicals and Catholics believe in Christ and try to follow His commands of faith and love. The atheist does not have Christ.
And believe me… I have heard poisonous being preached from Catholic pulpits. More than from Evangelical ones.

The poison of which I speak is much more insidious than that.
I speak of the contradictions to the Catholic faith routinely taught in many churches that sound perfectly sound until put against the light of what actually is.
How many childrens services do these other churches have that teach the children about the ‘66 books of the bible.’
How many discuss the evils of consuming alcohol?
How about the brothers and sisters of Christ?
Maybe even the ‘symbolism’ involved in John Chapter 6…
It may all sound fine in the context of the service, but it runs completely contrary to the catholic faith.

But again, I live in Europe… here the Christian churches don’t slander each other as much as they apparently do in America. We actually try to work together for the good of souls, knowing that we want our fellowmen to be saved. When I therefore hear about a person who joined the orthodox, messianics, evangelicals etc. I praise God. Because they gave their life to Jesus, and He said clearly: I have no favourites.

That actually runs contrary to the Catholic faith.
Was this tidbit something you picked up in a different church?

I am in a prayer group of Evangelicals and pentecostal and non-denominational. we hope the Lutherans will join us too… We need to stand together to pray for revival and be a witness to the lost sheep.

Agreed. But we need to be very careful not to lose our identity in this.
We are Catholic. The truth that God has provided us is within his church.
We cannot allow ourselves to be taken in by the sincere sounding falseness that exists elsewhere.

The proper answer to any issue found within the church is found within the church.
Be it additional prayer, conferences with the pastor on the issue, or perhaps even stepping up to the plate and forming your own prayer group within the church to address these feelings.

Perhaps if we ceased “hoping that they’ll see something there they can bring back to the Catholic Church” and instead brought it ourselves…

 

[catharina]

I am seeking Catholic (name removed by moderator)ut before I make any major decisions here…but I really need help.

Basically, here’s the backstory.

I became a christian in a charismatic protestant church. I learned to love God in this environment, and while the theology of it all proved ultimately flawed, I thrived in that church.

I became a Catholic about 2 years ago when I was studying to be a pastor for said church in one of their biggest bible colleges. I just learned too much about scripture and church history, and had to admit the truth in it all. Having come to the fullness of faith, there was now a lot of intellectual food on my plate…but 2 years later things are going horribly wrong on the spiritual and relational side.

I don’t relate to my parish at all. There is literally no one there in my age group that speaks my language. This is due largely to the demographic of my area. Secondly, I am not getting the same “spiritual buzz” that I got from my pervious church. Yes, I get a big lift out of eucharist (how could anyone NOT), but lately…I’ve felt dried up and dead inside. Compared to how I used to be.

I love God. I love the Catholic church. I fully believe in the Catholic church and her teachings. I am wondering how inappropriate it would be to attend a contemporary charasmatic protestant service during the week so I can still remain a very active member in my parish. I would not take communion, and I would hold fast to the Catholic church. I am talking about going just for the musical worship parts. I so greatly miss that, and it feels like part of me is dying without it. I didn’t realize how bad it was until I started listening to those old worship choruses on my iPod.

So, would be be sinning or cut off from the church if I went to an adult contemporary, charismatic protestant worship service, but refuse to take communion or become a member of that particular church? This may also prove an effective way to meet christian friends of my own age (something I am desparately in need of).

How inappropriate? It would/could be very wrong, well beyond inappropriate.
It is always difficult giving up a “feel good” experience for a more challenging one.
Yet feelings have nothing to do with it. By listening to the ‘old music’ you tempt YOU!

Visit a Catholic bookstore in person or on-line.
Choose some music that can be played at home or in your car.
As others have said, visit a few parishes for Mass on Sunday in the near future.
Most of all, welcome home to Rome!

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Alcohol consumption in and of itself is not sinful.

When did she imply that it was?

There is a great opportunity coming for the Catholic church, because the hierarchies of many Protestant churches are agreeing to tolerate immorality. Many conservative Protestants will look for a faithful church, and will find the Catholic church attractive. But if they enter a Catholic church and people are bigoted about Protestants, they will turn around and go the other way.

Why don’t we stop harping on people who believe in “brothers and sisters *of *Christ”, and instead seek to understand and love our brothers and sisters *in *Christ.

(Please note, I am not saying the OP should attend a Protestant church. I am saying that some Protestant churches have more life than some Catholic churches, and I think you would have to be blind not to realize that).

 

[vz71]

Alcohol consumption in and of itself is not sinful.

When did she imply that it was?

Here is the quote that implies it…

…they live in sin and drink alcohol and are not really present… They are nominal christians.

 

[GraceDK]

vz71:
It may well seem a worthy endeavor to go to other churches to try and find something you are missing in the Catholic church, but ultimately you will come away with something contrary to the Catholic faith.

This is where our oppinions simply differ. When my friend from university went to the Pentecostal Church one night and came out as a believer after having spent years ridiculing Christianity, he came out with Christ. How dare you say that people come out with something contrary to Catholic faith when they come out with Christ and the Gospel in their heart and the Bible in their hand???

Within the Catholic faith, absolutely.

But some people can’t find a parish in the Catholic church that feeds them as much as they need on every level… and there are many valid levels. If you have read my posts, you know I dont advocate that people leave the Catholic Church unless they really are standing in front of joining another church or falling into agnosticism. But for the majority that feel they are not being fed, some wider reading of material and testimonies might feed them, as will some fellowship with other Christians, and also to go visit other churches once in a while if they miss worshipping in ways that are not used in the Catholic Church. This is what I advocate.
I wonder, why the fear?
As for me, I do find spiritual nourishment in other churches. I dont go to churches that bash the Catholic Church or whatever you think is going on there. In these chuches I hear powerful encouraging testimonies, the Gospel preached in a living way, and we experience laying on of hands so people get healed. And I am often reminded of apostolic life when I see evangelical brothers… they really get to the core.

Alcohol consumption in and of itself is not sinful.
The concept that it is was not something you were taught within a Catholic church.
Perhaps you have already come away from these other churches with more then you intended?

Would you please stop putting words into my mouth and then use it to critizise our evangelical brothers? I never said alcohol was sinful per se. However, I have experienced that many Catholic young people think drunkeness is okay on occasion, which is a notion which is unacceptable in the different Lutheran, Messianic and Evangelical contexts I have been in. When people sit with the youth-priest and drink alcohol in order to get inebriated for the disco-night or pub-crawl waiting after the meeting, then I certainly feel something went wrong.

The poison of which I speak is much more insidious than that.
I speak of the contradictions to the Catholic faith routinely taught in many churches that sound perfectly sound until put against the light of what actually is.

These “many churches” are not churches that I frequent. I have been in one sectarian non-denominational group once that bashed the Catholic Church. One time… I never came back after that.

How many childrens services do these other churches have that teach the children about the '66 books of the bible.'

Childrens services? Thats a good one… at least they have them. The Catholic Churches here rarely have anything for children at all.
66 books of the Bible. Again, thats a good one. I can surely tell that you have another Catholic experience at your parish than I do in my entire country.
No catholic Priest ever taught me anything about the deuterocanonical books of the bible. I had to learn that through EWTN.
Another thing I will add: the evangelicals may not have as much as we do, but what they have, they use it well.

How many discuss the evils of consuming alcohol?

Again, I experienced that drunkeness is unacceptable in Evangelical youth circles and acceptable in Catholic ones. Neither Catholic priests or Evangelical pastors talk much about it from the pulpits. From the former it would be necessary though.

** That actually runs contrary to the Catholic faith.
Was this tidbit something you picked up in a different church?**

The “tidbit” as you call it, is written in the New Testament. Maybe you wanna look into that? Read the words of Peter in Acts: 10:34
And since you believe God has favourites… who are these? You, the Pope? I believe that Christ died equally for you and me, and when we speak about absolute human dignity from that perspective, we cannot put it into degrees.

**Agreed. But we need to be very careful not to lose our identity in this.
We are Catholic. The truth that God has provided us is within his church.
We cannot allow ourselves to be taken in by the sincere sounding falseness that exists elsewhere.
**

Catholics, yes… then let’s stop preaching theology, schools, philosophy, and start preaching Christ for the restoration of lost souls into eternal life.
Again, our brothers are not false, the Bible that they preach is not false. the Christ that they preach is not false. If you dared to go to Evangelical churches you would see that they dont find their identity in not-being-catholic but in what Christ has done.

The proper answer to any issue found within the church is found within the church.
Be it additional prayer, conferences with the pastor on the issue, or perhaps even stepping up to the plate and forming your own prayer group within the church to address these feelings.
Perhaps if we ceased “hoping that they’ll see something there they can bring back to the Catholic Church” and instead brought it ourselves…

There are times where you need to rest and where a well organised, loving and strong fellowship in Christ should be waiting for you in your own parish. A place where you should not have to struggle but where you could rest and find encouragement…
We cannot give what we don’t have…
Some of us have learned a whole lot about the Gospels and Christian life from visiting other churches. I recommend you to go and see for your self.

 

[GraceDK]

How inappropriate? It would/could be very wrong, well beyond inappropriate.
It is always difficult giving up a “feel good” experience for a more challenging one.
Yet feelings have nothing to do with it. By listening to the ‘old music’ you tempt YOU!

Visit a Catholic bookstore in person or on-line.
Choose some music that can be played at home or in your car.
As others have said, visit a few parishes for Mass on Sunday in the near future.
Most of all, welcome home to Rome!

Oh dear… here we go again.

To the OP.
HOW PLEASANT IT IS TO SIT AMONG BROTHERS.
Go wherever Jesus is preached, loved and worshipped in good conscience. Go praise Him with joy. Go to those who worship Him and listen to any music that seeks to praise Him.
Forgive those who talk about the “feel good” experience, because they have never experienced the presense of the Holy Spirit the particular ways that you have.
Peace be with you and Welcome to the Heart of Jesus and the fellowship of all who love Him.

 

[gabriel22a]

How inappropriate? It would/could be very wrong, well beyond inappropriate.
It is always difficult giving up a “feel good” experience for a more challenging one.
Yet feelings have nothing to do with it. By listening to the ‘old music’ you tempt YOU!

Visit a Catholic bookstore in person or on-line.
Choose some music that can be played at home or in your car.
As others have said, visit a few parishes for Mass on Sunday in the near future.
Most of all, welcome home to Rome!

Tempting her to what? She has indicated that she is fully convinced of her new faith. She states that she has lost much to join the Church–including what she believed was her vocation. Tempting her to return to those dreaded Protestants? Give me a break.

I have been ashamed of the ignorance Protestants have about the Catholic faith. But this thread has shown more bigotry and fear towards Protestantism than I ever heard in my 38 years as a Protestant. And we were licensed ministers–on the “inside” so to speak!

I am glad that, for one, the deacon at my RCIA class (86 years old and still radiating with vitality and the love of Jesus) had the gift of tongues and encouraged me that it was embraced by the Catholic Church. They also welcomed me as a fellow CHRISTIAN, which I thought was wonderful. I’m glad the Holy Spirit led me to the RCC before I found this forum.

There is a lack of charity here that boggles my mind. If indeed we HAVE THE EUCHARIST (which we do), it should be a point of humility and thanksgiving, not exclusivity to the point of fear of other Christians. How does any of this show the spirit of Christ? Paul said, something to effect that he had become all things to all people so that by the grace of God he may win some. Jesus fellowshipped with all sorts of people. Not just the “in” crowd.

I wish people could be as kind as my minister parents, grandparents, uncles, etc., and just say of Protestants what they did of Catholics: they are our brothers in Christ. And then pray for them–that the Lord lead them into the fullness of truth.

People are watching this site–many more than post. To you, I say, what I have found at my parish is most importantly the truth of the Gospel, polite friendliness and a deep knowledge of the unity we have in the faith. I have found Jesus in the RCC.

 

[vz71]

How dare you say that people come out with something contrary to Catholic faith when they come out with Christ and the Gospel in their heart and the Bible in their hand???

Did they come out Catholic?

I dont advocate that people leave the Catholic Church unless they really are standing in front of joining another church or falling into agnosticism. But for the majority that feel they are not being fed, some wider reading of material and testimonies might feed them, as will some fellowship with other Christians, and also to go visit other churches once in a while if they miss worshipping in ways that are not used in the Catholic Church.

If they are not being fed, then it needs to be taken up with the priest.
However, it has been my experience that you get out of it what you put into it.
As to leaving the Catholic church, I do not believe anyone should advocate leaving the Catholic faith for any reason.

I dont go to churches that bash the Catholic Church or whatever you think is going on there… they really get to the core.

Please do not mistake Catholic bashing for simply teaching contrary to the Catholic faith. These are two entirely different things. A good and faithful protestant church can teach plenty of things that are completely contrary to the Catholic faith without ‘bashing.’
Where is this ‘core’ that you say they get to? The core should be the Eucharist.
They get to the Eucharist? How so if they are not Catholic?

I never said alcohol was sinful per se. However, I have experienced that many Catholic young people think drunkeness is okay on occasion, which is a notion which is unacceptable in the different Lutheran, Messianic and Evangelical contexts I have been in.

If you mean drunkeness, then say drunkeness. Making the statement that they ‘drink alcohol’ as you did implies something you clearly did not intend.

These “many churches” are not churches that I frequent. I have been in one sectarian non-denominational group once that bashed the Catholic Church. One time… I never came back after that.

How noble.
What do you do when they preach about the brothers of Jesus?
What do you do when they preach that there are only 66 books in the bible?
What do you do when they preach that there is only heaven or hell?
What do you do when they preach that John 6 was about symbolism and not literal?

All of these have nothing to do with ‘bashing’ anyone.
They have to do with the fact that the Truth lies within the Catholic church and cannot be found elsewhere. Attending Protestant services because you are ‘starving’ is not the answer.

Another thing I will add: the evangelicals may not have as much as we do, but what they have, they use it well.

To what end?
It does not matter how well they teach, if they are not teaching the truth then the truth will not be found there.
Pieces of truth…perhaps.
But the fullness of it…never.

The “tidbit” as you call it, is written in the New Testament. Maybe you wanna look into that? Read the words of Peter in Acts: 10:34

This is a common thread I have seen when debating protestants on some piece of information. The single verse quote. In this case not even a complete sentence.
This is not something that one should learn within the Catholic faith.
Perhaps you have already left a protestant church with more then you realized.
One should read the entirety before making any type of conclusion as to what any given phrase means. One must take into account the oral tradition as well as the written tradition in making the determination.

… then let’s stop preaching theology, schools, philosophy, and start preaching Christ for the restoration of lost souls into eternal life.

On the one hand, the complaint is laid out that nothing is being taught.
On the other hand the complaint is laid out that we are teaching too much.
So which is it?

Again, our brothers are not false, the Bible that they preach is not false. the Christ that they preach is not false. If you dared to go to Evangelical churches you would see that they dont find their identity in not-being-catholic but in what Christ has done.

They find their identity as best they can given that they do not have the fullness of truth. But for those that know and are in the church that is truth, this is simply not enough. To leave truth for something less is not logical.

There are times where you need to rest and where a well organised, loving and strong fellowship in Christ should be waiting for you in your own parish. A place where you should not have to struggle but where you could rest and find encouragement…

God is in his Church. It is very easy to find him. Look to the tabernacle. Witness the Mass. See God.
If yo feel that after the entirety of the Mass that God has given to you that you are starving, then perhaps that is something you need to work on…in the Church.

We cannot give what we don’t have…
Some of us have learned a whole lot about the Gospels and Christian life from visiting other churches. I recommend you to go and see for your self.

I would agree that there are many things we could learn from our Protestant brothers and sisters. But the concept that one would need to complement the Mass with a protestant service is just plain wrong.

 

[mullenpm]

Oh my. This thread has turned into private venting sessions for a few posters.

My impression from reading the postings is that some converts have not been able to let go of their protestant roots and the need to feel good at service. The receiving of our Lord in the Holy Eucharist does not seem to be enough of a ‘high’ for some.

No comments by Catholics who appreciate the beauty and spiritual growth and love of the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Dear Savior Jesus Christ will change their minds so I think we should stop trying. If they want to return to their old ways, then so be it.

Statements that imply Catholics are people who are uncaring, mean and nasty (smiles in the parking lot, etc.) are so irrelevant because they are opinions of people who are determined not to like the Catholic Church irrespective of what label they put on themselves.

I was raised by a mother who was a convert to the Catholic Church. When we were young children my mother’s sister was always trying to drag us to bible classes, etc. in her own church. My mother never permitted it and I thank her to this day for persevering in being strict in our religious upbringing.:harp:

Ok, I am finished so back to the Protestants in the Catholic Church.:knight2::knight1:

 

[rcandap]

Statements that imply Catholics are people who are uncaring, mean and nasty (smiles in the parking lot, etc.) are so irrelevant because they are opinions of people who are determined not to like the Catholic Church irrespective of what label they put on themselves.

Opinions.

Okay.

Perhaps I am imagining it all… Clearly that is what many people want me to believe. There is no real problem, it is all in my head. And if there is no real problem, we certainly needn’t address it.

I think that attitude will take the Church far. As far as “feed my sheep,” just keep telling the sheep it’s they’re own fault if they’re not being fed.

 

[GraceDK]

vz71;
Did they come out Catholic?

They came out with Christ. They came out transformed with the Holy Spirit within them. So you tell me?

If they are not being fed, then it needs to be taken up with the priest.
However, it has been my experience that you get out of it what you put into it.
As to leaving the Catholic church, I do not believe anyone should advocate leaving the Catholic faith for any reason.

You see many people leaving the Catholic Church but they are just ignorant, right? they are just emotional, irrational, unreasonable and without understanding, right? Go try to widen your perspective.

**
Please do not mistake Catholic bashing for simply teaching contrary to the Catholic faith. These are two entirely different things. A good and faithful protestant church can teach plenty of things that are completely contrary to the Catholic faith without ‘bashing.’**

As can the Catholic Church. I have heard strange things come out of catholic priests.

**
Where is this ‘core’ that you say they get to? The core should be the Eucharist.
They get to the Eucharist? How so if they are not Catholic?**

The core should be Christ. If you have Christ you have everything. Christ is more than the Eucharist. The Eucharist is a huge grace but I see you misusing it to excuse the absense of all the other things God insituted, most importantly a living experience and relationship with the Holy Spirit.

If you mean drunkeness, then say drunkeness. …

well, maye if you were not filled to the brim with distrust you would be able to see what I meant.

How noble.
What do you do when they preach about the brothers of Jesus?

They dont. They preach about more important things.

What do you do when they preach that there are only 66 books in the bible?

They dont. They talk about whats in the books they do have. Not what they dont have.

What do you do when they preach that there is only heaven or hell?

I agree. In the end there are only these two. We don’t have any mention of purgatory in the Bible either. This does not disqualify the Bible.

What do you do when they preach that John 6 was about symbolism?

I disagree and am happy that I have the Eucharist in me… that is, if they mention it as a symbol. I only experienced that once.

All of these have nothing to do with ‘bashing’ anyone.
They have to do with the fact that the Truth lies within the Catholic church and cannot be found elsewhere.

Christ is the Truth, the Way and the Life. I assure you He is found everywhere where someone knocks on the door. Even among the humblest and best seekers of Him, He does not lead all to the Catholic Church.

Attending Protestant services because you are ‘starving’ is not the answer.

It has been a great source of encouragement to me, thanks.

To what end?

Salvation.

It does not matter how well they teach, if they are not teaching the truth then the truth will not be found there.

You are wrong. When they heard about a man who cast out demons in the name of Jesus, Jesus said: " Dont discourage him. The one who is not against us is with us".
“You will know the Truth and the Truth will set you free. I am the Truth”. said Jesus.
Don’t limit God to a sacrament. He is more.
Don’t make the Church into a God. God is united with Creation, but He is not the same as creation.
You have the fullness? Read the Word with wisdom. I assure you that even in heaven you will only have the fullness that a created soul can possess.

This is a common thread I have seen when debating protestants on some piece of information. The single verse quote. In this case not even a complete sentence.

And this is something I have seen from Catholics such as you. The urge to bash my methodology instead of adressing the actual quote.

This is not something that one should learn within the Catholic faith.
Perhaps you have already left a protestant church with more then you realized.

Maybe you are proud and conceited.

One should read the entirety before making any type of conclusion as to what any given phrase means. One must take into account the oral tradition as well as the written tradition in making the determination.

so why dont you make one?

They find their identity as best they can given that they do not have the fullness of truth. But for those that know and are in the church that is truth, this is simply not enough. To leave truth for something less is not logical.

Christ is Truth. Have you understood all the Bible?? Have you pondered every word. Even if you continue your whole life reading it, it will never finish with you.

God is in his Church. It is very easy to find him. Look to the tabernacle. Witness the Mass. See God.

God is in man. Witness your neighbour. Especially your brother. If you do not love him you dont have truth in you. God is not a theory but a Person who desires relationship.

If yo feel that after the entirety of the Mass that God has given to you that you are starving, then perhaps that is something you need to work on…in the Church.

I may feel encouraged and edified and I surely am. But that does not take the problems away. Man was not created to walk alone.

I would agree that there are many things we could learn from our Protestant brothers and sisters. But the concept that one would need to complement the Mass with a protestant service is just plain wrong.

Mention, say only three things we could learn?
And yet you see that some here need something more than what they get at Mass. What is your contructive advice for them?and don’t say: you are the problem.

 

[vz71]

As far as “feed my sheep,” just keep telling the sheep it’s they’re own fault if they’re not being fed.

But the Eucharist is at every Mass.
How can you claim that the sheep are not fed when the Eucharist is there?

I understand well the emotional need many may feel. They want some social network within the church that gives them some kind of emotional fulfillment.

If you need it, bring it. Don’t go elsewhere looking for it.

I am reminded of playground (or schoolyard) politics.
There is always some outsider that lays claim that no one will play with them because they are all mean and don’t want to talk to them.
Sometimes they are right.
But very often they are just too shy to talk to everyone else…and the outsider status is of their own creation.

People respond when you talk to them. It is not a unique quality of protestantism.

 

[vz71]

They came out with Christ. They came out transformed with the Holy Spirit within them. So you tell me?

You also mentioned that they came out with a bible in their hands.
Was the bible a Catholic bible?

The core should be Christ. If you have Christ you have everything. Christ is more than the Eucharist…

As I said. Perhaps you left the protestant service with more then you realize.
This statement is contrary to the Catholic faith.
In fact, I would be hard pressed to claim someone Catholic that does not know the Eucharist is God.

We don’t have any mention of purgatory in the Bible either. This does not disqualify the Bible.

Actually, we do.
In the Catholic as well as the Protestant versions of the bible.

Christ is the Truth, the Way and the Life. I assure you He is found everywhere where someone knocks on the door. Even among the humblest and best seekers of Him, He does not lead all to the Catholic Church.

It is also the Church. Read Timothy, pay special attention to chapter 3.
Why wouldn’t he lead people to himself?

Don’t limit God to a sacrament. He is more.
Don’t make the Church into a God. God is united with Creation, but He is not the same as creation.
You have the fullness? Read the Word with wisdom. I assure you that even in heaven you will only have the fullness that a created soul can possess.

This too runs contrary to church teaching.
I believe you have brought more from the protestant services you attended then you realize. How else could you get so many fundemental teachings of the Catholic faith so wrong?

Maybe you are proud and conceited.

You are reading more then is there.
Do not mistake love for the church for conceit and pride.
I am humbled to be in the same building as God, see God, kneel before God, and receive God.
It is something that one cannot experience elsewhere.

Christ is Truth. Have you understood all the Bible?? Have you pondered every word. Even if you continue your whole life reading it, it will never finish with you.

Read Timothy. You may be surprised.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

vz,

If you have read the Gospels, and you have found in it some reason to pester those who disagree with you, I beg you to read them again. Even if all you said was true, there is a way to speak the truth in love. Unless you plan to do so, please stop this conversation.

From Ut Unum Sint (John Paul II):

Besides the doctrinal differences needing to be resolved, Christians cannot underestimate the burden of long-standing misgivings inherited from the past, and of mutual misunderstandings and prejudices. Complacency, indifference and insufficient knowledge of one another often make this situation worse.

These separated Churches and Communities, though we believe that they suffer from defects, have by no means been deprived of significance and value in the mystery of salvation. For the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Catholic Church".

With reference to the many positive elements present in the other Churches and Ecclesial Communities, the Decree adds: "All of these, which come from Christ and lead back to him, belong by right to the one Church of Christ.

“Nor should we forget that whatever is wrought by the grace of the Holy Spirit in the hearts of our separated brothers and sisters can contribute to our own edification. Whatever is truly Christian never conflicts with the genuine interests of the faith; indeed, it can always result in a more ample realization of the very mystery of Christ and the Church”.

Humility is not a chain; it is our glory. We have the Truth, but we must not wield it like a weapon.