A Catholic Look at Mormanism

[TheExorcist]

And I just thought it was because J. Smith had never been to Australia and had no ‘romantic’ ideas about their native population.

It’s because Columbus never visited Australia and because it’s not the “land of promise”

 

[Conor7]

I think it’s interesting how regularly I hear or read about Catholics converting to Mormonism.

Is it the immediately similarities that Catholics find comforting that they convert- the tight leadership, both claim the be the one true church, apostolic succession (although by different understanding), the tremendous wealth of the church, large families, and Catholics have Mary while Mormons have a goddess mother.

You can’t ignore the abundant superficial similarities.

 

[zaffiroborant]

Susie, my heart goes out to you. My son (who is 31 now) started attending a Mormon church because that is what his girlfriend is. He started attending 2 years ago, then joined this past summer. He called my grandsons mother, asked for her permission for my grandson to be baptized, she declined, stating that had been done when he was little, and didn’t see the need for it to be done again. (She was very polite without bringing the reasons she wanted to say no way in H####!!! ) He called back in October and said my grandson was going to be baptized Mormon whether she agreed or not. So, he was. My former daughter in law did attend, only to support my grandson,( who is 7 and doesn’t understand the differences of religion) and , as she says, pray hard. My son has had no contact with his side of the family (both his fathers and mine) since 4 months prior to his baptism, (which is a mix of Catholic, Orthodox, Angelican, Southern Baptist,Lutheran and non-denom,), due to the advice of one of the elders of the Mormon church. When he first started attending, I asked him if he really understood what the difference in the theology between the Mormons and the rest of families Christian beliefs were and why. He told me that no one really knows which church God is behind, and it’s all man made laws for the respective churches, so no one really knows. He also said he was tired of being brain washed by all the “traditional” Christians in the family, how could we all get along being different christian denominations and call Mormons not christian, he can worship God in anyway he wants, and he is just as Christian as anyone else in the family. When the subject of his baptism came up, I asked him why he needed to do it again, since he had already been baptized (Lutheran). If they were truly a Christian church, they would not require a Christian to be re-baptize who had already had a trinitaran baptism. he stated all churches have different rules to be a member, this was one of theirs, and thats all baptism is to the Mormons. AARRGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!! I have to leave it in God’s hands, I don’t have a choice.

According to their own rules this should not have happened with your grandson, but then they only put rules like this in place to look good, always concerned about their image. This shows the total lack of respect for non-LDS families held by members of the LDS church, and a lack of integrity on the part of those in authority in the LDS church. Baptizing other peoples children is something I’ve seen over and over again described by practicing members of the LDS church. Though in most of the cases these people described it was behind the parent/s back, at least in your case they didn’t sneak around behind mom’s back. For what that’s worth in light of the disrespect shown to her.

 

[po18guy]

I think it’s interesting how regularly I hear or read about Catholics converting to Mormonism.

All faiths, both Christian and non, are predators upon the Catholic Church. It’s in scripture.

Is it the immediately similarities that Catholics find comforting that they convert- the tight leadership, both claim the be the one true church, apostolic succession (although by different understanding), the tremendous wealth of the church, large families, and Catholics have Mary while Mormons have a goddess mother.

You can’t ignore the abundant superficial similarities.

As well, everything you’ve claimed applies exactly as much to the Eastern Orthodox. Do you see these same amazing similarities between the LDS and the Eastern Orthodox?

If not, why not?

 

[Conor7]

Kind of a stretch, I think. Ditto for the Eastern Orthodox. Do you see these same amazing similarities with the Eastern Orthodox?

If not, “why not?”, is what I would ask myself.

I don’t think it’s much of a stretch. I do admit however, that I probably hear more about Catholics converting to Mormonism because Catholics tend to be very vocally opposed.

I would like to amend this by saying that it’s not that Mormons are not opposed when other Mormons convert to Catholicism, it’s just that there are fewer Mormons so I probably don’t hear about it as much.

 

[SteveVH]

But, they were Aborigines. Remember that the LDS originally taught that dark skin was a curse. Then, like so many other things in their continuing revelation, it began to change. Rather a parallel with the world at large.

My point exactly. Was Jesus a racist? But I would would like to hear a Mormon response to this. Why just America? And if the BoM was not correct about dark skin being a curse (as presupposed by continuing revelation) then why not Austrailia as well? It gets to one of my pet peeves with Mormonism; contradiction in old vs. new revelation just seems to not really be a problem for them. But I will withold judgment until I hear a Mormon response to this problem.

 

[ParkerD]

Why don’t we hear of Jesus visiting Australia, for instance? Were the native people there not worthy? Jesus gave his Church the mission of preaching the gospel to the whole world. …

SteveVH,

Latter-day Saints who are familiar with the Book of Mormon and several prophecies within its chapters, expect that at some point in the future there will be a record that will come to light that will describe more visits of Jesus to more places on the earth after His resurrection. It may be before the Millenium begins, or after that–and it will be very likely based on those prophecies (which actually refer back to an Isaiah prophecy) that such an appearance occurred on an “isle of the sea”, so Australia or New Zealand would qualify indeed.

Every record ever made on this earth, isn’t necessarily known of right now.

As to worthiness, “native people” would be just as worthy as anyone else–the telling thing being whether a group (probably a scattered “remnant” of the house of Israel who went to various places in the world) had an expectation of Christ’s mission and His coming to the earth in fulfillment of that divine mission as the Son of God and the Messiah of the whole world.

 

[mikelionheart]

Parker

And when you Mormons do find ‘evidence’ that there are others around the world descended from the lost tribes of Israel we can get scientists to do DNA tests on them to prove that they have the same ancestry as the Jews today.
Just like happened with the Native Americans.

Oh…hold on…

 

[SteveVH]

SteveVH,

Latter-day Saints who are familiar with the Book of Mormon and several prophecies within its chapters, expect that at some point in the future there will be a record that will come to light that will describe more visits of Jesus to more places on the earth after His resurrection. It may be before the Millenium begins, or after that–and it will be very likely based on those prophecies (which actually refer back to an Isaiah prophecy) that such an appearance occurred on an “isle of the sea”, so Australia or New Zealand would qualify indeed.

Every record ever made on this earth, isn’t necessarily known of right now.

As to worthiness, “native people” would be just as worthy as anyone else–the telling thing being whether a group (probably a scattered “remnant” of the house of Israel who went to various places in the world) had an expectation of Christ’s mission and His coming to the earth in fulfillment of that divine mission as the Son of God and the Messiah of the whole world.

If what you say is true, Parker, why is there no evidence of anything Christian in any part of the world prior to the Church arriving there? You say that the records just haven’t been found yet. But then why did Christ command his Apostles to preach the gospel to the whole world if he was going there ahead of them? One can hisorically trace the spread of Christianity throughout the world. There is absolutely no evidence of the Church arriving in a new location only to find that Christ had already been there; none. And if you are correct, and he did visit other parts of the world, then his mission, throughout the entire world, was an absolute failure.

Now, I will give you one thing. This would at least be consistent with the Mormon view that the very church Christ founded in Israel failed within the first century. Apparently this was the case all over the world; Jesus couldn’t pull it off in Israel, nor anywhere else. Instead, we would all have to wait for Joseph Smith.

 

[ParkerD]

Parker

And when you Mormons do find ‘evidence’ that there are others around the world descended from the lost tribes of Israel we can get scientists to do DNA tests on them to prove that they have the same ancestry as the Jews today.
Just like happened with the Native Americans.

Oh…hold on…

MikeLionHeart,

Anytime anyone uses the word “Jews” when discussing DNA tests and “ancestry” of Native Americans, it pretty much shows they don’t have a very thorough background in reading the Old Testament and figuring out that there were twelve tribes of Israel, not just the tribe of Judah, and that there would be different DNA for the different tribes because of different marriages.

(By the way, the predominant ancestry of the Lamanites was through the tribe of Manasseh, son of Joseph, son of Jacob/Israel. Manasseh was also the son of a woman who was not an Israelite, and married a woman who was not an Israelite.)

 

[po18guy]

In one sense, Mormonism is in a category with the modern religion of Evolutionism. If only that “missing link” could be found, it would be clear to everyone.

 

[ParkerD]

If what you say is true, Parker, why is there no evidence of anything Christian in any part of the world prior to the Church arriving there? You say that the records just haven’t been found yet. But then why did Christ command his Apostles to preach the gospel to the whole world if he was going there ahead of them? One can hisorically trace the spread of Christianity throughout the world. There is absolutely no evidence of the Church arriving in a new location only to find that Christ had already been there; none. And if you are correct, and he did visit other parts of the world, then his mission, throughout the entire world, was an absolute failure.

Now, I will give you one thing. This would at least be consistent with the Mormon view that the very church Christ founded in Israel failed within the first century. Apparently this was the case all over the world; Jesus couldn’t pull it off in Israel, nor anywhere else. Instead, we would all have to wait for Joseph Smith.

SteveVH,

I suggest a person wondering about evidence of “anything Christian” study about the Dead Sea scrolls. Those show that there was some pre-“Christian” knowledge about a coming Messiah.

The Old Testament has many prophecies about the scattering of Israel and the gathering of Israel, and about “remnants” and about part of the scattering occurring to the “isles of the sea”.

Jesus prophesied that not only would He be rejected by the leadership of the Jews, but that they would plot to “sieze on his inheritance” and would do so. (Matthew 21:37-43)

No one had “to wait for Joseph Smith”. Every person can receive as much knowledge and wisdom from God as they sincerely seek for. (Joseph Smith did show that pattern and teach that it can be done, through sincere prayer and living by gospel teachings.)

 

[mikelionheart]

Parker

Matthew 21:37-43
New International Version (NIV)
37 Last of all, he sent his son to them. ‘They will respect my son,’ he said.

38 “But when the tenants saw the son, they said to each other, ‘This is the heir. Come, let’s kill him and take his inheritance.’ 39 So they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.

40 “Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?”

41 “He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,” they replied, “and he will rent the vineyard to other tenants, who will give him his share of the crop at harvest time.”

42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:

“‘The stone the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone;
the Lord has done this,
and it is marvelous in our eyes’[a]?

43 “Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.

This quite clearly shows the true faith ceasing to be Judaism and becoming the Christian Church.

 

[Marie5890]

These days with all the information out there on Mormons, when a young person is interested in it, it’s because there is a love interest and thus hormones.

An objective and critical thinking review of Mormonism tend to put the possibility of joining them to rest.

 

[RebeccaJ]

(By the way, the predominant ancestry of the Lamanites was through the tribe of Manasseh, son of Joseph, son of Jacob/Israel. Manasseh was also the son of a woman who was not an Israelite, and married a woman who was not an Israelite.)

Well, you’re talking about Lehi, not Sariah.

 

[ParkerD]

Well, you’re talking about Lehi, not Sariah.

RJ,

Correct, and we have no knowledge at all of the ancestry of Sariah. If the pattern is consistent, and could well be, then she was not a descendant herself of the house of Israel.

 

[Khalid]

These days with all the information out there on Mormons, when a young person is interested in it, it’s because there is a love interest and thus hormones.

An objective and critical thinking review of Mormonism tend to put the possibility of joining them to rest.

I realized that when I looked it up to deal with the missionaries. I was semi-interested for a while, “oh, I ordered a book of Mormon, this is a fortuitous coincidence”, and because it was similar to Islam from which I had recently escaped in many ways (old habits die hard), until they started spouting some of the crazier doctrine to me - God has a body, God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are three gods, you can become your own God, God came to earth in his physical body to have carnal knowledge of the Most Blessed Virgin, forgive me for repeating the blasphemy, etc.

And then I found that site, “Thoughtful Mormon”, and it convinced me to join once and for all.

 

[TexanKnight]

MikeLionHeart,

Anytime anyone uses the word “Jews” when discussing DNA tests and “ancestry” of Native Americans, it pretty much shows they don’t have a very thorough background in reading the Old Testament and figuring out that there were twelve tribes of Israel, not just the tribe of Judah, and that there would be different DNA for the different tribes because of different marriages.

(By the way, the predominant ancestry of the Lamanites was through the tribe of Manasseh, son of Joseph, son of Jacob/Israel. Manasseh was also the son of a woman who was not an Israelite, and married a woman who was not an Israelite.)

Yet all the tribes came from the same Jewish father, so your comments do not hold much water…or DNA either

 

[icamay]

MikeLionHeart,

Anytime anyone uses the word “Jews” when discussing DNA tests and “ancestry” of Native Americans, it pretty much shows they don’t have a very thorough background in reading the Old Testament and figuring out that there were twelve tribes of Israel, not just the tribe of Judah, and that there would be different DNA for the different tribes because of different marriages.

(By the way, the predominant ancestry of the Lamanites was through the tribe of Manasseh, son of Joseph, son of Jacob/Israel. Manasseh was also the son of a woman who was not an Israelite, and married a woman who was not an Israelite.)

I was a part of that DNA project, and our tribe is one that the Mormons have pinned as descendants of Israel. I am female, which only tests mitachondrial DNA, and the Native lineage is from my mother’s mother. We are not Jewish, and 94% of the members of our tribe that was tested had the same DNA factors as I had. The Jewish theory fails.

 

[icamay]

I mean no disrespect to our LDS friends. I have found them to be quite faithful, charitable, kind, and that they mean well. That being said, the faith seems to me to be such a fragile theory built on fallacy. The questions that unsettle me are these?

1. Why do the Natives not have an account of Jesus being in America, but we have an account that is so similar to Noah’s story? I find it so unbelievable that our Messiah could have been in America and my people kept it secret. Ever been in a Native American village? The entire town knows I’m home before my rear axle hits the city limit!
2. Why would God have waited 1500 years after the canonization of the NT to “correct” it?
3. Celestial marriage and Matthew 22:23-32:

23 That same day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him with a question. 24 “Teacher,” they said, “Moses told us that if a man dies without having children, his brother must marry the widow and raise up offspring for him. 25 Now there were seven brothers among us. The first one married and died, and since he had no children, he left his wife to his brother. 26 The same thing happened to the second and third brother, right on down to the seventh. 27 Finally, the woman died. 28 Now then, at the resurrection, whose wife will she be of the seven, since all of them were married to her?”
29 Jesus replied, “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. 31 But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you, 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’[a]? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”