A caution from Archbishop Chaput: dishonest mercy helps no one

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You selectively take the quote waaaaay out of context. Can you comment on the fuller elaborations that I qouted?

Can you show us where the Church has ever said that the judgment of an erroneous conscience must be obeyed even if contrary to the truth?
A person makes judgments according to conscience, so in that sense a person acts according to that judgment. but nowhere does the Church exalt the individual conscience in that way, that it must act against objective truth.
The passage I quoted from the same article directly contradicts this assertion.

Directly. Cardinal Josef Ratzinger. I trust the man’s expertise in this area.
“Over the pope as expression of the binding claim of ecclesiastical authority, there stands one’s own conscience which must be obeyed before all else, even if necessarily against the requirement of ecclesiastical authority” --Joseph Ratzinger, (in: Commentary on the Documents of Vatican II).

Here is one link, though there are many others that provide this well known teaching by the theologian Joseph Ratzinger:

opentabernacle.wordpress.com/2010/07/20/joseph-ratzinger-on-conscience-and-dissent/
 
And I am sorry if this is going to get contentious, but what you are doing is dishonest.
Here is a fuller quote of the snippet you took above. You are twisting the words of Cardinal Ratzinger to your own purposes.
Yes, the conscience can err. This is not disputed. I am sorry to say it, but you do not understand the teaching on conscience. Please see comment #318 above.
 
If you mean the final arbiter of right and wrong, it should be transparently obvious that the church has never taught this. If you mean that the individual should follow his conscience, this is true, but it has nothing to do with right and wrong, and if the individual chooses wrongly he will be held accountable. It surely does not mean that the church endorses whatever he chooses to do or will act in response to the individual’s beliefs rather than her own. A man may believe his first marriage was invalid and that his second marriage should not bar him from communion, but in the church’s eyes unless his first marriage has been officially declared invalid, his situation is objectively disordered and reception of communion would be a grave sin regardless of truth about the validity of his first marriage.

Ender
Well, I have only provided quotes from Joseph Ratzinger, the future Pope Benedict XVI. If you disagree, then so be it. But your disagreement is not with me.
 
Well I found this article relating to this subject that quotes Cardinal Ratzinger and I think goes into this a little more deeper.

I’ve bolded relevant parts.

*Ratzinger also recalls that, for the Christian, there is also, as it were, a parallel primal conscience at this deeper level as a result of our incorporation through baptism into the “we”-structure of the faith. It is that intuitive sense of what is in harmony with the deposit of faith, which enables the faithful to sense what is true — census fidei — and what is false in what they hear in sermons or read in theological literature, though they may not be able to articulate it themselves.

In sum, one has to follow an erroneous conscience, but the guilt for acting in a way that is objectively wrong or evil — as in the case of Hitler and Stalin — is not to be found at that (second) level of conscience but at the deeper level, in failing to listen to the Voice of God that is the ontological conscience. That level of conscience cannot ever be obliterated and so remains as the a priori for repentance. It is also the basis for evangelization and mission. And it is the deepest ferment in every culture and religion, keeping societies open to the transcendent and enabling them to change and develop.*

catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=8598
 
Well I found this article relating to this subject that quotes Cardinal Ratzinger and I think goes into this a little more deeper.

I’ve bolded relevant parts.

Ratzinger also recalls that, for the Christian, there is also, as it were, a parallel primal conscience at this deeper level as a result of our incorporation through baptism into the “we”-structure of the faith. It is that intuitive sense of what is in harmony with the deposit of faith, which enables the faithful to sense what is true — census fidei — and what is false in what they hear in sermons or read in theological literature, though they may not be able to articulate it themselves.

In sum, one has to follow an erroneous conscience, but the guilt for acting in a way that is objectively wrong or evil — as in the case of Hitler and Stalin — is not to be found at that (second) level of conscience but at the deeper level, in failing to listen to the Voice of God that is the ontological conscience. That level of conscience cannot ever be obliterated and so remains as the a priori for repentance. It is also the basis for evangelization and mission. And it is the deepest ferment in every culture and religion, keeping societies open to the transcendent and enabling them to change and develop.

catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=8598
Yes, this is far better understanding of a complex teaching. As Ratzinger explains it (elsewhere), when the voice of God’s law that is inscribed on the conscience (CCC 1776) is stiffled, a person might err in his actions, and if so the guilt is at a deeper level. Nevertheless, a person must obey the certain judgment of conscience because what is heard, though distorted (but insofar as it is the voice of conscience), is the voice of God’s law. This distortion involves what Ratzinger describes as a distortion of the “anemnensis” (as with a sociopath) which is a concept first described by Plato (though in relation to reincarnation rather than what is inscribed as part of man’s nature).
 
And I am sorry if this is going to get contentious, but what you are doing is dishonest.
Here is a fuller quote of the snippet you took above. You are twisting the words of Cardinal Ratzinger to your own purposes.
I have only quoted Cardinal Ratzinger and have done so knowing his teaching on conscience. It is rather complex, has a history extending back at least 2,500 years, and includes the teachings of both Augustine and Aquinas. An ad hominem attack calling me dishonest is not necessary. The Church has always taught that the final arbiter is the conscience.
 
Yes, this is far better understanding of a complex teaching. As Ratzinger explains it (elsewhere), when the voice of God’s law that is inscribed on the conscience (CCC 1776) is stiffled, a person might err in his actions, and if so the guilt is at a deeper level. Nevertheless, a person must obey the certain judgment of conscience because what is heard, though distorted (but insofar as it is the voice of conscience), is the voice of God’s law. This distortion involves what Ratzinger describes as a distortion of the “anemnensis” (as with a sociopath) which is a concept first described by Plato (though in relation to reincarnation rather than what is inscribed as part of man’s nature).
See for me this is where the well informed conscience or the formation of conscience is critical. It needs to be guided by the Magisterium/ teachings of the church.

If your conscience tells you to go through with an act however is in contradiction to church teaching then in “good” conscience you should not follow through.
 
See for me this is where the well informed conscience or the formation of conscience is critical. It needs to be guided by the Magisterium/ teachings of the church.

If your conscience tells you to go through with an act however is in contradiction to church teaching then in “good” conscience you should not follow through.
I understand, but it really is not what Cardinal Ratzinger has said. I believe part of it is that an informed conscience cannot be limited by the circular logic that it must necessarily conform to Church teaching in every instance (which would negate its signifance). This is perhaps related to the Cardinal’s teaching that revelation is continuous, as provided in the dogmatic constitution Dei Verbum, a document for which the Cardinal was the major influence.

I can see the reasoning for it since each person is ultimately responsible for their own salvation. In other circumstances, if a person’s conscience tell them to go through with an act in contradiction to church teaching, if they err they do so by not knowing in “good” conscience that the action is wrong.

That the certain judgment of conscience must always be obeyed even if it errs is an important part of Cardinal Ratzinger’s teaching on conscience.
 
Thanks for the interesting link. I found this sentence particularly interesting:

“Even deeper for me was the contribution which Heinrich Fries published in connection with the Jubilee of Chalcedon. Here I found access to Newman’s teaching on the development of doctrine, which I regard along with his doctrine on conscience as his decisive contribution to theology.”

From what I have seen, what that then-Cardinal Ratzinger taught about the development of doctrine, his influence on Dei Verbum, and this teachings on conscience are not widely known. But I think they are very important to an understanding of the recommendation of the final document of the synod concerning divorce and remarriage and the primacy of conscience.

I think what Archbishop Chaput meant was that if in this example it is the certain judgment of conscience that a first marriage was valid, then it would be “dishonest mercy” to conclude otherwise. This seems a reasonable conclusion.
 
I understand, but it really is not what Cardinal Ratzinger has said. I believe part of it is that an informed conscience cannot be limited by the circular logic that it must necessarily conform to Church teaching in every instance (which would negate its signifance). This is perhaps related to the Cardinal’s teaching that revelation is continuous, as provided in the dogmatic constitution Dei Verbum, a document for which the Cardinal was the major influence.

I can see the reasoning for it since each person is ultimately responsible for their own salvation. In other circumstances, if a person’s conscience tell them to go through with an act in contradiction to church teaching, if they err they do so by not knowing in “good” conscience that the action is wrong.

That the certain judgment of conscience must always be obeyed even if it errs is an important part of Cardinal Ratzinger’s teaching on conscience.
So a person proceeding with an abortion knowing full well it is a sin and against church teaching, must obey their conscience if it is indeed telling them to proceed with the abortion…is that what Cardinal Ratzinger is saying?
 
To put it differently, the identification of conscience with superficial consciousness, the reduction of man to his subjectivity, does not liberate but enslaves. It makes us totally dependent on the prevailing opinions and debases these with every passing day. Whoever equates conscience with superficial conviction, identifies conscience with a pseudo-rational certainty, a certainty which in fact has been woven from self- righteousness, conformity and lethargy. Conscience is degraded to a mechanism for rationalization while it should represent the transparency of the subject for the divine and thus constitute the very dignity and greatness of man. Conscience’s reduction to subjective certitude betokens at the same time a retreat from truth. When the psalmist in anticipation of Jesus’ view of sin and justice pleads for liberation from unconscious guilt, he points to the following relation. Certainly, one must follow an erroneous conscience. But the departure from truth which took place beforehand and now takes its revenge is the actual guilt which first lulls man into false security and then abandons him in the trackless waste.
 
Having considered this first, essentially ontological level of the concept of conscience, we must now turn to its second level, that of judgment and decision which the medieval tradition designates with the single word conscientia, conscience. Presumably this terminological tradition has not insignificantly contributed to the diminution of the concept of conscience. Thomas, for example, only designates this second level as conscientia. For him it stands to reason that conscience is not a habitus, that is a lasting ontic quality of man, but actus, an event in execution. Thomas of course assumes as given, the ontological foundation of anamnesis (synderesis). He describes anamnesis as an inner repugnance to evil and an attraction to the good. The act of conscience applies this basic knowledge to the particular situation. It is divided according to Thomas into three elements: recognizing (recognoscere), bearing witness (testificari), and finally, judging (judicare). One might speak of an interaction between a function of control and a function of decision. Thomas sees this sequence according to the Aristotelian model of deductive reasoning. But he is careful to emphasize what is peculiar to this knowledge of moral actions whose conclusions do not come from mere knowing or thinking. Whether something is recognized or not, depends too on the will which can block the way to recognition or lead to it. It is dependent, that is to say, on an already formed moral character which can either continue to deform or be further purified. On this level, the level of judgment (conscientia in the narrower sense), it can be said that even the erroneous conscience binds. This statement is completely intelligible from the rational tradition of scholasticism. No one may act against his convictions, as Saint Paul had already said (Rom 14:23). But the fact that the conviction a person has come to certainly binds in the moment of acting, does not signify a canonization of subjectivity. It is never wrong to follow the convictions one has arrived at—in fact, one must do so. But it can very well be wrong to have come to such askew convictions in the first place, by having stifled the protest of the anamnesis of being. The guilt lies then in a different place, much deeper—not in the present act, not in the present judgment of conscience but in the neglect of my being which made me deaf to the internal promptings of truth. For this reason, criminals of conviction like Hitler and Stalin are guilty.
 
So a person proceeding with an abortion knowing full well it is a sin and against church teaching, must obey their conscience if it is indeed telling them to proceed with the abortion…is that what Cardinal Ratzinger is saying?
I don’t think so if it were the certain judgment of conscience. That would be a contradiction if the person knew “full well” abortion is a sin.

CCC 1800 means just what it says: “A human being must always obey the certain judgment of his conscience.”
 
**I don’t think so if it were the certain judgment of conscience. That would be a contradiction if the person knew “full well” abortion is a sin. **

CCC 1800 means just what it says: “A human being must always obey the certain judgment of his conscience.”
Then doesn’t what you just said (bolded) contradict what you said below in another post?

I]“Over the pope as expression of the binding claim of ecclesiastical authority, there stands one’s own conscience which must be obeyed before all else, even if necessarily against the requirement of ecclesiastical authority” --Joseph Ratzinger, (in: Commentary on the Documents of Vatican II).
 
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clem456:
“Certainly, one must follow an erroneous conscience. But the departure from truth which took place beforehand and now takes its revenge is the actual guilt which first lulls man into false security and then abandons him in the trackless waste”.

Wow…
 
Then doesn’t what you just said (bolded) contradict what you said below in another post?

I]"Over the pope as expression of the binding claim of ecclesiastical authority, there stands one’s own conscience which must be obeyed before all else, even if necessarily against the requirement of ecclesiastical authority" --Joseph Ratzinger, (in: Commentary on the Documents of Vatican II).
Um…then-Cardinal Ratzinger, the future Pope Benedict XVI, said it.

Do you understand what “certain judgment of conscience” means and why it must be obeyed? Why is it you believe the certain judgment of conscience of a person who knew “full well” that abortion is a sin would contradict church teaching?

Really, one should limit comments to you and several others to verbatim quotes only since you are disputing the provisions of the final synod document, the CCC’s teaching on conscience, and now the teachings of Pope Benedict XVI on conscience, none of which you have shown you understand. And you are doing this under the misleading but never explained presumption you are somehow presenting church teaching. Sorry to have to say it, but it is what it is and someone needs to say it.
 
Um…then-Cardinal Ratzinger, the future Pope Benedict XVI, said it.

Do you understand what “certain judgment of conscience” means and why it must be obeyed? Why is it you believe the certain judgment of conscience of a person who knew “full well” that abortion is a sin would contradict church teaching?

Really, one should limit comments to you and several others to verbatim quotes only since you are disputing the provisions of the final synod document, the CCC’s teaching on conscience, and now the teachings of Pope Benedict XVI on conscience, none of which you have shown you understand. And you are doing this under the misleading but never explained presumption you are somehow presenting church teaching. Sorry to have to say it, but it is what it is and someone needs to say it.
Thomas.
You picked that quote out of a huge article. It is out of context with the Cardinal’s words immediately following and throughout.
You are misrepresenting what he said. The article doesn’t begin to support you understanding of conscience.
What you are doing is attempting to deceive.
 
Well, I have only provided quotes from Joseph Ratzinger, the future Pope Benedict XVI. If you disagree, then so be it. But your disagreement is not with me.
Once again your response to my argument is to simply ignore it. It ought to be rather clear that my disagreement is not over the words that Ratzinger wrote, but with your interpretation of their meaning. So far your crux of your position is nothing more than “I’m right, I don’t need to defend it.” It seems evident to me that you’re not right which is why you can’t defend it.

Ender
 
I don’t think so if it were the certain judgment of conscience. That would be a contradiction if the person knew “full well” abortion is a sin.
How is a person to know what is sinful? If I am allowed in good conscience to ignore the church when she says X is a sin, why would I not be allowed to ignore her when she says abortion is a sin? If I can justifiably ignore her teaching about one sin am I not equally justified in ignoring her positions on all of them? As you frequently point out, three quarters of all Catholics ignore the church’s teaching on contraception. According to you they are justified in doing so, at least those who are “certain” it is justifiable in their circumstances.

So answer this: if a person commits an act which he believes is acceptable, but which the church teaches is a sin, will he be held accountable for having sinned?

Ender
 
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