A Challenging Article on Catholic Moral Theology

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Geofarmer1 said:
I take great offense to this tread and the idea that meat raised in modern production agriculture is cruelly raised. My wife and I are 5th generation family farmers in the Midwest. We own and operate 2 of these farms that you would label “Factory Farms”. Pig care and the best welfare of the animal is the highest priority of our farm and the pork industry. The animals are raised inside in climate controlled barns, individually cared for and fed the most nutritious feed possible.

There are many organizations such as PETA and the Humane Society of the United States (not your local dog & cat shelter) that want to see operations like ours closed down. The real reason is that they object to slaughtering animals for food. They would like to see you eat VEGAN.

The manure generated by our operation (and generally in the industry) is used as an organic fertilizer and spread on our farms to best utilize the nutrients in a sustainable way to grow next years crop of corn.

The truth of the matter is that today, in the US and the developed world we have the safest food supply in history, thanks to the farmers and the agricultural industry.

This so called “Factory Farm” we own has allowed us to remain on the farm, to become financially independent, to care for our family and to put two of our children through a Catholic college with one to go.
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Thankyou for this post GeoFarmer. You should be offended. The way modern farmers are treated by the anti-agricultural propaganda is at best being considered an idiot (note: the famers are always being taken advantage of by the big bad food companies and fertilizer companies). Everything you say is spot on, it is what I tried to say earlier, but did a much poorer job expressing.
 
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Rence:
I kinda disagree with that. For example, I personally think that milk would be healthier if they were distributed from the dairy farmer, rather than trucked from the individual dairies, driven all over the country, to the bigger “dairy factories” where they do whatever they do to make it taste not-like-milk-really-tastes, with that awful mucousy stuff that’s left at the back of one’s throat. If you distribute to the customers straight from your farm, I think that would be better than what they’re doing now.
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Well, you are not correct. Milk often is surprisingly local, even today with really large dairies. Secondly, the big push for non-pasturized milk is dangerous, that is the main thing they do: besides seperating out fat. And, as much as I love whole milk, and really love non-pastuerized whole milk: its not as good for us or healthier.

Distributing to customers straight from the farm is simply not feasible when you have 99.9% of the population dependent on buying milk as opposed to producing it.
 
tafan said:
Hogs will naturally eat almost anything: meat, grain, grass, insects: you name it, hogs will eat it when in nature.
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Do commercial farmers feed hogs anything they would normally eat ‘in nature’?
 
Good_Daughter said:
Do commercial farmers feed hogs anything they would normally eat ‘in nature’?
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Yes, hogs will eat grain in nature, they quite love it; as anyone knows who has had pigs get loose in their corn field :(. But the meat that commercial farmers feed hogs would be much safer than most of what a wild hog would eat. I think you pretty much have to be really careful about eating any type of wild hog meat: if the pig is young and meat looks ok you are probably safe, beyond that I think it would be one of the worse types of meat to try to consume.
 
tafan said:
Thankyou for y this post GeoFarmer. You sehould be offended. The way modern farmers are treated by the anti-agricultural propaganda is toh best being considered an idiot (note: the famerhes are always being taken advantage of by the big bad food companies and fertilizer companies). Everything you say is spot on, it is what I tried to say earlier, but did a much poorer job expressing.
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Thanks.
We in agriculture are moving toward campaigns where we take on these issues one on one with consumers at fairs and over social media.

Our industry has bad actors and we are also taking them on also.

They will find them selves out of business when no one will buyor sell to them.
The processors are very careful about these issues and require compliance and certification of food safety and welfare.
 
GratefulFred said:
Economics.

Chicken sells for a $1 a pound in my area. Everyone in the supply chain from farmer to grocer has to cover his or her costs and then make a profit in order to stay in business on that low retail price of $1 a pound.

Any business person knows the surest way to a profit is to control your cost and loss of product. There are so many things that can go wrong, one is forced to be efficient or fade away. Land space is a large cost. If one can grow 1,000 chickens on one acre or 10,000 chickens on one acre, which is cheaper?

If factory farms were not efficient they would fade away.

Of course farmers could be required to increase their costs to satisfy certain concerns and then chicken could sell for $2 a pound. The Middle and Upper class might absorb that cost but it would be harder on the poor. Of course then if we paid $2 a pound and had our taxes increased another $1, the goverment could give the poor an extra $0.85 (the government has to pay itself first) in tax to buy the $2 chicken with a $1.85. So the poor are helped, but still shorted, and become more poor.

So if I have $2 only, I can buy a $1 chicken and a $1 quart of milk today, or tomorrow I can forego the milk and just buy a $2 chicken. And pay more taxes.

At some point chicken will cost too much and we would buy less and the farmer goes out of business anyway.

Economics.

Stewardship requires a constant balance.
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Interestingly, the evidence that factory farming, and very large farms, are actually more efficient then smaller farms as a matter of food production is not clear-cut.
 
Doesn’t really affect me, I live in a farming town and virtually all the meat at our tables is locally raised.

Also our milk tastes better than that in most of the country, because we have great dairy companies—also locally owned.
 
Geofarmer1 said:
Thanks.
We in agriculture are moving toward campaigns where we take on these issues one on one with consumers at fairs and over social media.

Our industry has bad actors and we are also taking them on also.

They will find them selves out of business when no one will buyor sell to them.
The processors are very careful about these issues and require compliance and certification of food safety and welfare.
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First, thank you Geofarmer1 and all responsible famers and ranchers. My family has eaten well for 60 plus years because of your skill and dedication.

Second, every industry and business have bad actors and generally have ways to limit them. And they also try to promote best practices.

With 300 plus million people to feed every day, I am not for small independent farmers only. Nor am I for factory farms only. But, Economies of scale are necessary to feed 300 million people a day. The same is true with housing; some live in stand alone homes, many live in apartment complexes.
 
tafan said:
Yes, hogs will eat grain in nature, they quite love it; as anyone knows who has had pigs get loose in their corn field :(. But the meat that commercial farmers feed hogs would be much safer than most of what a wild hog would eat. I think you pretty much have to be really careful about eating any type of wild hog meat: if the pig is young and meat looks ok you are probably safe, beyond that I think it would be one of the worse types of meat to try to consume.
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I didn’t know corn fields existed ‘in nature’, I thought humans had to put them there. Wild hogs are actually harvested and consumed in many parts of the world and the U.S… I have no personal experience with wild hog consumption (we don’t have them in Atlantic Canada) but this guy does:

jackboulware.com/uncategorized/hunting-wild-boar
 
Good_Daughter said:
So there’s quite a difference between the diet of a wild pig and a commercially grown pig.
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We have lots of wild hogs in this part of the country. Trust me, you should be glad that there is quite a difference in the diet. Wild hog meet is one of the most dangerous game animal meats to eat there is.

Of course corn has existed in nature, as have lots of other grains. But though the centuries, they have been very much changed based on cultivization. I don’t know where you are coming from on this. If you were talking about cattle, I could sort of understand; as there are lots of people who are critical of grain finishing of cattle, when their “natural” diet is grass. There is some validity to this, but not much. With hogs, there is absolutley no argument to be made for this point of view.

And the article you posted is certainly questionable. All hogs should be bled immediately upon killing them. Or at least that is the what my grandparents always said when they slaughtered their own (in those days when farmers were pure and good 🙂 ). I would trust them, as it has been done that way for generations. If a hog is not bled immediately, the meat is not safe. As a boy I remember watching my grandfather and a neighbor kill and slaughter a hog. When it had been killed, they went into action very fast to slit the throat and get the carcus hoisted up so that it would drain of blood. They seemed to have the attitude that it could not be done fast enough.
 
Pfaffenhoffen said:
It is and I cannot answer that. It is a fact of life. Lions eat lovely zebras. For a lion to reah adulthood he must eat 200 zebras.

But let’s talk about vegetables? Isn’t it the same thing? There is no problem only because they do not “feel” ?

Complicated.
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Yes, veggies suffer much more. They get killed if they don’t meet man’s needs and things like that. They are a lower form of life though, so it is more sinful it needlessly kill animals than veggies.
 
vsedriver said:
One thing these videos never tell you is how old the incriminating video clips they are showing are. Several groups have exposed some of PETA’s nastiest videos to be decades old and prior to the implementation of new policies and procedures.

Many of the animal rights groups recycle the same material.
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Thanks a lot!
 
Rence said:
What it boils down to, like everything else, is that most people just don’t care about how animals are treated. They are disposable, like anything else. The people who do care, patronize their local farmers, where they are assured that the animals are treated better. Or they patronize ‘food factories’ that operate with treating the animals better. All of them are not the same. Basically, if people want a change, they will rally to make it happen. Sometimes hiding behind cellophane wrappers makes it easier to ignore what happens to the animals. It’s out of sight, and out of mind for most people.

Personally, I honestly believe that the poor health of our society is God’s retribution for the cruelties inflicted on animals. Whoever thinks they can get away with abusing their ‘authority’ given to them by God when he made us sterwards of the earth, are just plain fooling themselves. There is a consequence for every abuse of God-given authority. In this case, the proof is right there in front of us, as plain as the nose on our face, with all the cancers, allergies, diabetes, and literally countless other ailments we cause ourselves from what we put in our mouth and body. Hormones in our water. Chemicals in our food…mmmm, yummy, Bon Appetite…
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Yeah, but people who eat “properly” get cancer, allergies, diabetes and countless other ailments too, and people who eat ****** all their lives and are quite free from these conditions. I guess it comes down to a personal belief…

I agree that most people are concerned only with what’s in the wrapper; in our modern society, we’re quite removed from the raising and slaughter of our animal foodstuffs. It is noteworthy that many people are unable to patronize more “humane” farms by buying their products, and choose to go vegetarian or vegan as a second choice. Many also do this as a first choice, I’d suppose.
 
tafan said:
Well, you are not correct. Milk often is surprisingly local, even today with really large dairies. Secondly, the big push for non-pasturized milk is dangerous, that is the main thing they do: besides seperating out fat. And, as much as I love whole milk, and really love non-pastuerized whole milk: its not as good for us or healthier.

Distributing to customers straight from the farm is simply not feasible when you have 99.9% of the population dependent on buying milk as opposed to producing it.
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Not our local milk. Our local milk comes from across the country, not from our local dairies. And regardless of whether family farm milk is pasteurized or not, it’s still a better food than store-bought just by the virtue of its freshness.

And I’m sorry, but I have to respectfully disagree with you about them doing nothing but pasteurize it. I pasteurize my milk too and it’s still completely different from what you buy in the store. Perhaps it takes on the taste of the plastic or carton, I don’t know. I did okay with Oberweiss, which is packaged in glass jars. But generally milk from the store is gross. It doesn’t even sour, but rots. Sorry…but that’s the truth… but hey, if you like it better from the store, more power to you. We can’t all be the same 🙂
 
Good_Daughter said:
I didn’t know corn fields existed ‘in nature’, I thought humans had to put them there. Wild hogs are actually harvested and consumed in many parts of the world and the U.S… I have no personal experience with wild hog consumption (we don’t have them in Atlantic Canada) but this guy does:

jackboulware.com/uncategorized/hunting-wild-boar
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Pigs are omnivores, they will eat almost anything. They will eat grains, anything green, fruit (except citrus fruits), eggs, meat, anything.
 
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