A chance to bring improvement to my Parish

[Malkin71]

Our Parish Pastoral Council is having a open (name removed by moderator)ut session for all registered Parishioners to suggest (name removed by moderator)ut for our Parish. The catch is you have 3 minutes to say you idea suggestion.

I am going try in 3 minutes to address these issues.

1. Have the EMHC to stop going and opening up the Tabernacle during the Agnus Dei. Only have them go up to the Altar after the Priest calls them up. Also, when Holy Communion is finished they hand the Ciborium to the Priest not to transfer Holy Communion from the Ciborium to another. I will back this up with church Doccuments.
2. Ask to have The EF Mass at our Parish. This is a long shot. But, I want it on the record and to bring it up.
3. Address a dress code for Mass. If people can shell out funds for Sports jerseys to wear on Sunday, they can afford a contempary outfif to wear for Mass.
4. Suggest a Prolife group, and a Knight of Columbus group to start for our Parish.

My brother told me just stick to one point because they will brush aside the Liturgical EMHC abuses issue. I say adress all and keep it short.

What do you all think?

 

[gh4]

If there had been a dress code at the catholic church I went through RCIA in, neither me or my two boys would be catholic today. Sometimes it’s easy to say what someone should be able to afford, but more difficult in when it’s YOU who is doing the affording.

That’s all. Good luck!

 

[diggerdomer]

Our Parish Pastoral Council is having a open (name removed by moderator)ut session for all registered Parishioners to suggest (name removed by moderator)ut for our Parish. The catch is you have 3 minutes to say you idea suggestion.

I am going try in 3 minutes to address these issues.

1. Have the EMHC to stop going and opening up the Tabernacle during the Agnus Dei. Only have them go up to the Altar after the Priest calls them up. Also, when Holy Communion is finished they hand the Ciborium to the Priest not to transfer Holy Communion from the Ciborium to another. I will back this up with church Doccuments.
2. Ask to have The EF Mass at our Parish. This is a long shot. But, I want it on the record and to bring it up.
3. Address a dress code for Mass. If people can shell out funds for Sports jerseys to wear on Sunday, they can afford a contempary outfif to wear for Mass.
4. Suggest a Prolife group, and a Knight of Columbus group to start for our Parish.

My brother told me just stick to one point because they will brush aside the Liturgical EMHC abuses issue. I say adress all and keep it short.

What do you all think?

The Tabernacle should not be typically used during Mass. If that’s a routine, that’s a problem.

According to Summorum Pontificum, you will likely only have an EF Mass at your parish if there was already a stable group celebrating it.

I doubt you’ll have any luck with a dress code.

Pro-life and KofC groups are of course laudable, if there’s interest then they should flourish.

 

[Phemie]

According to Summorum Pontificum, you will likely only have an EF Mass at your parish if there was already a stable group celebrating it.

No, it’s supposed to be considered if a stable group ‘requests it’. There’s no requirement that it have been celebrated before.

 

[Seamus_L]

I’d just suggest the TLM. That should be first.

 

[diggerdomer]

No, it’s supposed to be considered if a stable group ‘requests it’. There’s no requirement that it have been celebrated before.

That’s what I meant…a stable group that had been celebrating it (wherever). Sorry not to be clearer.

 

[Claire_from_DE]

Pick your battles. Stick to ONE topic.

Forget about a dress code. If the important parts are covered, that’s all you can ask. And even then what can you do? Kick them out of church?

Address the abuse issues with the pastor privately, not the parish council. He is the one responsible for changing these.

If you request an EF mass, bring with you a petition signed by 20 or more individuals. At the top of the petition, it should say something like: We would like to take part in the celebration of the Extraordinary Form of the Mass. We respectfully request that the pastor and pastoral council look into the feasibility of providing this in our parish on some kind of regular basis. We are willing to commit to attend these masses, to undertake the training of altar servers, and to help in any way needed. Thank you for your consideration. If you can’t find at least 20 people in the parish to sign the petition, you need to look for somewhere else in your area to attend the EF mass since there would not seem to be a desire for it in the parish.

K of C and a prolife group are great ideas.

Rally your friends (maybe your brother?). Have each one suggest ONE item on your list. You could help them organize their thoughts for the presentation.

Another suggestion, have you thought about Eucharistic adoration? You could begin with just one day a week. I hear that this can bring great blessings to a parish.

Good luck. Keep praying for your parish. Let us know how it goes.

 

[Phemie]

That’s what I meant…a stable group that had been celebrating it (wherever). Sorry not to be clearer.

No, there is no need to have been celebrating it before otherwise most parishes could never expect to ever see one again – AFAIK, there hasn’t been an EF Mass celebrated within my archdiocese in decades.

It requires simply that a stable group requests it, that’s all. That means that in my parish (where there has not been a Mass celebrated in the Extraordinary Form since the OF came into being) if the 10 or 12 parishioners who would dearly love to see Mass celebrated in the EF get together and request it the pastor is supposed to at least seriously consider it.

I believe that the logistics would still mean no EF in my parish since we don’t have the required vestments, furnishings, etc. The look I get from the pastor when I mention the EF also tells me he has zero interest in celebrating this form.

 

[YADA]

1. Have the EMHC to stop going and opening up the Tabernacle during the Agnus Dei. Only have them go up to the Altar after the Priest calls them up. Also, when Holy Communion is finished they hand the Ciborium to the Priest not to transfer Holy Communion from the Ciborium to another. I will back this up with church Doccuments.

This is something that should be addressed with the priest and or liturgist and maybe a function of proper training. You should offer to volunteer for the liturgy team and work on training sessions for your ministerial volunteers [Altar Servers, Lectors, Extraordinary Minsters of Holy Communion and Ushers]. I am sure they meet regualrly and would value your support. But heed the advic already given and bring this up in private…

1. Ask to have The EF Mass at our Parish. This is a long shot. But, I want it on the record and to bring it up.

This seems a valid request for the forum … a new pastoral function … Rather then just ask to have it - I think you express your desire to have the EF Mass and volunteer to investigate the interest in having the opportunity for the EF Mass. Is there interest and committment for it … When would this Mass be celebrated? What impact would that have on the parish, would it replace a Mass? A few years back we instituted a change in Mass schedule for our parish. Don’t know how much experience you have with making changes like that but it is hard. We developed a good survey - worked months in developing the change, communicated it [and the reasons for it] to the greater parish community … it went very well … but our entire paastoral team worked hard to make it happen smoothly … Offer your assitance in the initial process

1. Address a dress code for Mass. If people can shell out funds for Sports jerseys to wear on Sunday, they can afford a contempary outfif to wear for Mass.

Don’t know what to say about this … training for the ministerial volunteers can include instructions on dress … example: more and more people setting the model willl have far better results - that is why those who serve at Mass are key … But your opinion on a 'contemporary outfit" and anothers maybe vastly different …

1. Suggest a Prolife group, and a Knight of Columbus group to start for our Parish.

Again - Are you a Knight? … new Knight’s Councils are usually sponsored by a neighboring council until the new council has enough members to become independent … Our parish helped a neighboring parish get their council up and going - they were part of our Council for about three years maybe four … they have been on their own for about four years but our council still provides some support especially for their fund raising dinners/events… So lead the way … if you are not a Knight find a Council and join with the idea that you will recruit members and eventially become independent … Talk to a KOC Grand Knight … the KOC - though many are formed around parishes and their members - are an independent organization from the parish … so this is not a Parish Pastoral Issue …

The ProLife Group only needs parishioners to come together … so start one - you take the lead … if you want some parish support [meeting space, bulletin space parish dunds for events like inviting guest speakers] then you will need the support of your Priest and Pastoral Council … but there is nothing really stopping you and like minded parishioners from coming together. And a ProLife Adhoc group coming to the Pastoral Council seeking recognition as an approved parish subgroup would get more rsponse then a request from an individual that basically says - “I want this ______ - please provide it”

Also, the Knights are very ProLife … they have many charitable causes related to this issue … so get your apron ready - the spaghetti dinners and pancake breakfasts need lots of “ready hands” …

What do you all think?

So you have what I think … don;t show up with short requests for others to provide service/program/group for you … Show up with a proposal or two or three … depending upon how much time you want to invest in all or any of the issues you raised … Write a proposal for them to consider … be sure to include your committent in time, talent and treasure to whatever you propose and you will see a positive response Good Luck

PS: Don’t forget to pray over your discernment process and as you develop the new programs … we always have a group that prays for our special programs - like our praish Lenten Small Faith Sharing Groups … they start praying when the team gatehrs to set the theme, pick materials and form the small groups … they don’t stop praying until Easter … then of course the next program will be starting …

 

[diggerdomer]

No, there is no need to have been celebrating it before otherwise most parishes could never expect to ever see one again – AFAIK, there hasn’t been an EF Mass celebrated within my archdiocese in decades.

It requires simply that a stable group requests it, that’s all. That means that in my parish (where there has not been a Mass celebrated in the Extraordinary Form since the OF came into being) if the 10 or 12 parishioners who would dearly love to see Mass celebrated in the EF get together and request it the pastor is supposed to at least seriously consider it.

I believe that the logistics would still mean no EF in my parish since we don’t have the required vestments, furnishings, etc. The look I get from the pastor when I mention the EF also tells me he has zero interest in celebrating this form.

I guess this is where the BIshop and canon lawyers would have to get involved on how to interpret and apply SP.

SP says “In parishes, where there is a stable group of faithful who adhere to the earlier liturgical tradition” – which begs questions like how could there be such a group if they weren’t already celebrating the earlier liturgy? What does “stable” mean?

 

[Orogeny]

Our Parish Pastoral Council is having a open (name removed by moderator)ut session for all registered Parishioners to suggest (name removed by moderator)ut for our Parish. The catch is you have 3 minutes to say you idea suggestion.

I am going try in 3 minutes to address these issues.

1. Have the EMHC to stop going and opening up the Tabernacle during the Agnus Dei. Only have them go up to the Altar after the Priest calls them up. Also, when Holy Communion is finished they hand the Ciborium to the Priest not to transfer Holy Communion from the Ciborium to another. I will back this up with church Doccuments.
2. Ask to have The EF Mass at our Parish. This is a long shot. But, I want it on the record and to bring it up.
3. Address a dress code for Mass. If people can shell out funds for Sports jerseys to wear on Sunday, they can afford a contempary outfif to wear for Mass.
4. Suggest a Prolife group, and a Knight of Columbus group to start for our Parish.

My brother told me just stick to one point because they will brush aside the Liturgical EMHC abuses issue. I say adress all and keep it short.

What do you all think?

Just remember that the Parish Pastoral Council (PPC) is only an advisory council for the Pastor. The PPC can (and should) take your requests under advisement and then give advice to the Pastor regarding your requests. The PPC cannot make any of those changes on their own.

Peace

Tim

 

[Godfollower]

You only have three minutes. You can either blurt out all of your topics with no depth whatsoever, or address one topic with at least some strength. Pick your battles.

 

[Malkin71]

I guess this is where the BIshop and canon lawyers would have to get involved on how to interpret and apply SP.

SP says “In parishes, where there is a stable group of faithful who adhere to the earlier liturgical tradition” – which begs questions like how could there be such a group if they weren’t already celebrating the earlier liturgy? What does “stable” mean?

The people who were born during the years of VII are used to the OF form. Unless they went to the Indult Mass. Those Masses if allowed were scarce and depending on where you live far away.

Now the Indult Mass is the OF form. A stable group IMOP is people who want it to be said in their Parish. How can you get the younger people involved unless you teach them about it and have it? What crime is it to have a EF Mass?

 

[Malkin71]

You only have three minutes. You can either blurt out all of your topics with no depth whatsoever, or address one topic with at least some strength. Pick your battles.

On the EMHC. I can state the GIRM and RS as proof. I can be specific, short and to the point. All speakers are going to be recorded and a written transcript will be noted for further discussion within the Parish.

 

[diggerdomer]

The people who were born during the years of VII are used to the OF form. Unless they went to the Indult Mass. Those Masses if allowed were scarce and depending on where you live far away.

Now the Indult Mass is the OF form. A stable group IMOP is people who want it to be said in their Parish. How can you get the younger people involved unless you teach them about it and have it? What crime is it to have a EF Mass?

It’s not a crime, who suggested it was? The “Indult Mass” is not the OF (ordinary form), it’s the EF (extraordinary form). Summorum Pontificum broadened the opportunities for the EF so that those following its guidelines do not need an indult.

 

[Phemie]

I guess this is where the BIshop and canon lawyers would have to get involved on how to interpret and apply SP.

SP says “In parishes, where there is a stable group of faithful who adhere to the earlier liturgical tradition” – which begs questions like how could there be such a group if they weren’t already celebrating the earlier liturgy? What does “stable” mean?

You could have a love for the EF and greatly long for it without having celebrated it in recent years.

 

[Malkin71]

This is something that should be addressed with the priest and or liturgist and maybe a function of proper training. You should offer to volunteer for the liturgy team and work on training sessions for your ministerial volunteers [Altar Servers, Lectors, Extraordinary Minsters of Holy Communion and Ushers]. I am sure they meet regualrly and would value your support. But heed the advic already given and bring this up in private…

This seems a valid request for the forum … a new pastoral function … Rather then just ask to have it - I think you express your desire to have the EF Mass and volunteer to investigate the interest in having the opportunity for the EF Mass. Is there interest and committment for it … When would this Mass be celebrated? What impact would that have on the parish, would it replace a Mass? A few years back we instituted a change in Mass schedule for our parish. Don’t know how much experience you have with making changes like that but it is hard. We developed a good survey - worked months in developing the change, communicated it [and the reasons for it] to the greater parish community … it went very well … but our entire paastoral team worked hard to make it happen smoothly … Offer your assitance in the initial process

Don’t know what to say about this … training for the ministerial volunteers can include instructions on dress … example: more and more people setting the model willl have far better results - that is why those who serve at Mass are key … But your opinion on a 'contemporary outfit" and anothers maybe vastly different …

Again - Are you a Knight? … new Knight’s Councils are usually sponsored by a neighboring council until the new council has enough members to become independent … Our parish helped a neighboring parish get their council up and going - they were part of our Council for about three years maybe four … they have been on their own for about four years but our council still provides some support especially for their fund raising dinners/events… So lead the way … if you are not a Knight find a Council and join with the idea that you will recruit members and eventially become independent … Talk to a KOC Grand Knight … the KOC - though many are formed around parishes and their members - are an independent organization from the parish … so this is not a Parish Pastoral Issue …

The ProLife Group only needs parishioners to come together … so start one - you take the lead … if you want some parish support [meeting space, bulletin space parish dunds for events like inviting guest speakers] then you will need the support of your Priest and Pastoral Council … but there is nothing really stopping you and like minded parishioners from coming together. And a ProLife Adhoc group coming to the Pastoral Council seeking recognition as an approved parish subgroup would get more rsponse then a request from an individual that basically says - “I want this ______ - please provide it”

Also, the Knights are very ProLife … they have many charitable causes related to this issue … so get your apron ready - the spaghetti dinners and pancake breakfasts need lots of “ready hands” …

So you have what I think … don;t show up with short requests for others to provide service/program/group for you … Show up with a proposal or two or three … depending upon how much time you want to invest in all or any of the issues you raised … Write a proposal for them to consider … be sure to include your committent in time, talent and treasure to whatever you propose and you will see a positive response Good Luck

PS: Don’t forget to pray over your discernment process and as you develop the new programs … we always have a group that prays for our special programs - like our praish Lenten Small Faith Sharing Groups … they start praying when the team gatehrs to set the theme, pick materials and form the small groups … they don’t stop praying until Easter … then of course the next program will be starting …

Our Priest is up there in age and neer retirement. It is hard to give him ideas for the Parish. I tried to have a Novena to St. Anne said and he replied, 'We have enough going on at our Parish." We had one of our statues in our Fatima grotto vandelized a few yers back “Francisco Marto’s” head was smashed off. It was "headless for two years until the sister of my neighbor called the Dioecesis repeatedly untill "Francisco was removed.

I am a KoC.

The reasons why for a awareness for proper dress is during Super Bowl Sunday this past year I had to tell a man in his early 20’s to remove his Steelers hat during Mass. Also, I should hve been more clear. To remind people to dress up for Mass. There are events were proper dress is required. Mass should be one of them!

 

[Godfollower]

On the EMHC. I can state the GIRM and RS as proof. I can be specific, short and to the point. All speakers are going to be recorded and a written transcript will be noted for further discussion within the Parish.

Yes, but what’s the point?

The pastoral council is an advisory body only (CIC Canon 536, § 2). The pastoral council cannot compel the pastor to do anything. The pastor presides over it, but its vote is merely consultative. If he wants to obey GIRM and RS, he can do so without their approval; if he wants to disobey them, he can do so despite their vote. “In all juridic affairs the pastor represents the parish according to the norm of law.” CIC, Canon 532 (this canon means that the pastor makes all decisions for the parish, just like a general makes all decisions for his/her troops).

In my humble opinion, you’ll simply (A) publicly embarrass the pastor, (B) raise an issue that seems to most laypeople to be overly technical (and about which I’m betting they care very little), and (C) dilute the rest of your presentation. And you won’t accomplish anything that can’t be accomplished by a simple letter or meeting with the pastor.

There are similar issues with some of your other options: only the pastor can adopt a rule establishing a dress code for Mass, and I would suspect that the EF will go nowhere without the pastor’s support.

You might have a shot at finding support for a Knights of Columbus chapter or a prolife group, and if the pastor supports the EF this might be a good venue for finding public support. But, if you try to do too much in only three minutes, you’ll detract from the rest of it.

:twocents:

 

[Malkin71]

Pick your battles. Stick to ONE topic.

Forget about a dress code. If the important parts are covered, that’s all you can ask. And even then what can you do? Kick them out of church?

Address the abuse issues with the pastor privately, not the parish council. He is the one responsible for changing these.

If you request an EF mass, bring with you a petition signed by 20 or more individuals. At the top of the petition, it should say something like: We would like to take part in the celebration of the Extraordinary Form of the Mass. We respectfully request that the pastor and pastoral council look into the feasibility of providing this in our parish on some kind of regular basis. We are willing to commit to attend these masses, to undertake the training of altar servers, and to help in any way needed. Thank you for your consideration. If you can’t find at least 20 people in the parish to sign the petition, you need to look for somewhere else in your area to attend the EF mass since there would not seem to be a desire for it in the parish.

K of C and a prolife group are great ideas.

Rally your friends (maybe your brother?). Have each one suggest ONE item on your list. You could help them organize their thoughts for the presentation.

Another suggestion, have you thought about Eucharistic adoration? You could begin with just one day a week. I hear that this can bring great blessings to a parish.

Good luck. Keep praying for your parish. Let us know how it goes.

There are times when I have address issues to our Priest. It falls on deaf ears. I like him. He knows I know about the ruberics, and the issues of the CHurch. He knows my view points on where I stand.

 

[Malkin71]

Just remember that the Parish Pastoral Council (PPC) is only an advisory council for the Pastor. The PPC can (and should) take your requests under advisement and then give advice to the Pastor regarding your requests. The PPC cannot make any of those changes on their own.

Peace

Tim

I know it is an adisory council. But, a lot of times the Parish council seems like they make the decisions. I saw this before the merger of the Parishes. When we had own own Parish the Parish Council took over the Parish. This created many problems. This is why after the merger people feel discouraged about voicing their opinions.