A chance to bring improvement to my Parish

[diggerdomer]

If invited to a banquet to be a speaker or to be in the audience of the Pope would you dress proper?

Could anything we wear merit or earn God’s approval? I think not.

 

[Lennox]

1. Have the EMHC to stop going and opening up the Tabernacle during the Agnus Dei. Only have them go up to the Altar after the Priest calls them up. Also, when Holy Communion is finished they hand the Ciborium to the Priest not to transfer Holy Communion from the Ciborium to another. I will back this up with church Doccuments.

In my parish we have usually have 2 weddings Masses each Saturday following by the Vigil Mass and then 9 Masses every Sunday. We do our very best to put out just enough hosts for each Mass. Unfortunately at times the ciborium in the tabernacle can get a bit full. When that happens we access the tabernacle during the Agnus Dei. There is nothing from the Church that prohibits this.

Also please realize that the sanctuary is not the altar. EMsHC can enter the sanctuary before the priest receives communion but they cannot approach the altar.

Finally there is nothing from the Church that prohibits laypersons from transferring consecrated hosts or even accessing the tabernacle. Yes I have read the language in the GIRM and no, it makes no specific limitation. Some make inferences from the GIRM but they are just that.

 

[Lennox]

All I want is to have the Mass said reverently and follow the GIRM by the book with no innovations and abuses. If by God that happens I will be happy. The view of the Committe should look at the GIRM, RS and look how the Mass is being said. Take a hard look at the EMHC’s. Do we really need them so Mass will be over in a half hour or 45 minutes? Does the Parish know the parts of Mass and the proper gesters and their meanings? **Strike their breast at the Confeitior, Bow during the Nicean Creed, Silence before Mass, etc… This is what I want! This is my goal! **

I will be up against these opinions…“Fr. can say and do whatever he wants at Mass. There are some rules that we do not have to follow., We do not have to follow what Rome says. The Church must move and progress forewards.” Imagine have opinions like that on a Comittee?

Why? Seriously… WHY?

Why not focus on your own actions at Mass and not those of the priest? Why are you trying to control something you ultimately have no control over? Why not pray for the priest rather than confront him? Don’t worry, I’ve asked myself the same questions in the distant past.

 

[TheDoctor]

Why? Seriously… WHY? Why not focus on your own actions at Mass and not those of the priest? Why are you trying to control something you ultimately have no control over? Why not pray for the priest rather than confront him? Don’t worry, I’ve asked myself the same questions in the distant past.

Because, dear friend, the faithful have the right to have the Mass said properly and the Priest has the duty and obligation to say it that way.

While I am not in agreement with everything Malkin is proposing, he is 100% right in wanting the Mass to be said according to the rubrics. What may help you is to understand that the Mass is the public prayer of the Church, so when a Priest or Deacon or Extraordinary Minister or lector is called upon to serve, we (the rest of the congregation) just want them to do it the correct way to the best of their abilities.

 

[Orogeny]

This is from the Gospel of Matthew.

Chapter 22 11-14

"But when the king came in to meet the guests he saw a man there not dressed in a wedding garment.

He said to him, ‘My friend, how is it that you came in here without a wedding garment?’ But he was reduced to silence.

Then the king said to his attendants, ‘Bind his hands and feet, and cast him into the darkness outside, where there will be wailing and grinding of teeth.’

Many are invited, but few are chosen."

“The Last Crusade”, was a movie. If invited to a banquet to be a speaker or to be in the audience of the Pope would you dress proper?

So do you have a passage from scripture that has Jesus actually rejecting someone based on their dress?

By the way, that passage has nothing to do with clothes. You understand that, right?

Peace

Tim

 

[Malkin71]

So do you have a passage from scripture that has Jesus actually rejecting someone based on their dress?

By the way, that passage has nothing to do with clothes. You understand that, right?

Peace

Tim

I got into this discussion with a friend of the family who is a Priest. He uses this as for proper dress at Mass. Also, like I have said people can go out and spend $$$$ on a night on a town, Movies, Theatre, Sporting events, Dinners, subscriptions to cable tv, Dish tv, cell phones, etc… and they will moan when they are told not to wear jeans, tshirts, sweatpants, tennis shoes, etc… to Mass! Also in the discussion the Priest said the same people will come asking for money to pay for their cell phones, cable bill, etc…

People can give up material things and make a sacrafice for God. Dress for respect! Jobs do require it. Jury Duty requires it. Michele Obama wore a Mantilla when meeting the Pope! First impressions matter.

The relaxed atmosphere of the 70’s and 80’s has polluted the Church. When I was younger the nuns drilled into your head about how to dress for Mass.

Also, true story. About 1979 or 1980 I was serving 12:00 p.m. Sunday Mass. We were waiting for the Church bells to ring so we can start to process up the main aisle. We had a paper boy wo looked to be around 7. He looked and dressed like 'Pig Pen" from Peanuts. He looked like he was playing in dirt. He was leaning agaist the glass wall. The Pastor at the time scolded him by telling him that he is “dirtying up the galss and making a mess of it.” Also, he said, “He should take a Bath! and Why don’t you take a Bath!” The Priest was right to make that comment.

 

[asia53]

1. Address a dress code for Mass. If people can shell out funds for Sports jerseys to wear on Sunday, they can afford a contempary outfif to wear for Mass.

You won’t have any luck with this one. Besides, no one can really know (except the people themselves)-what other people can or can’t afford.

 

[Orogeny]

I got into this discussion with a friend of the family who is a Priest. He uses this as for proper dress at Mass. Also, like I have said people can go out and spend $$$$ on a night on a town, Movies, Theatre, Sporting events, Dinners, subscriptions to cable tv, Dish tv, cell phones, etc… and they will moan when they are told not to wear jeans, tshirts, sweatpants, tennis shoes, etc… to Mass! Also in the discussion the Priest said the same people will come asking for money to pay for their cell phones, cable bill, etc…

People can give up material things and make a sacrafice for God. Dress for respect! Jobs do require it. Jury Duty requires it. Michele Obama wore a Mantilla when meeting the Pope! First impressions matter.

The relaxed atmosphere of the 70’s and 80’s has polluted the Church. When I was younger the nuns drilled into your head about how to dress for Mass.

Also, true story. About 1979 or 1980 I was serving 12:00 p.m. Sunday Mass. We were waiting for the Church bells to ring so we can start to process up the main aisle. We had a paper boy wo looked to be around 7. He looked and dressed like 'Pig Pen" from Peanuts. He looked like he was playing in dirt. He was leaning agaist the glass wall. The Pastor at the time scolded him by telling him that he is “dirtying up the galss and making a mess of it.” Also, he said, “He should take a Bath! and Why don’t you take a Bath!” The Priest was right to make that comment.

So you admit that 1) you don’t have an example of Jesus excluding anyone based on their dress and 2) you don’t understand that the story Jesus was telling had nothing to do with clothing.

Which would Jesus be sadder about? Someone coming to Mass poorly dressed, a priest that humiliated and probably chased off a young child or someone who totally misses the lesson of that Gospel story?

Peace

Tim

 

[Malkin71]

So you admit that 1) you don’t have an example of Jesus excluding anyone based on their dress and 2) you don’t understand that the story Jesus was telling had nothing to do with clothing.

Which would Jesus be sadder about? Someone coming to Mass poorly dressed, a priest that humiliated and probably chased off a young child or someone who totally misses the lesson of that Gospel story?

Peace

Tim

Post 60 shows where in Matthew about being invited to a banquet and not having propper attire. Also, I know of Priests who will agree with me on it too!

Also, if you see somone a adult or child who has a cold or flu and they are coughing and sneezing without covering their mouth and they are doing it around you at Mass.

Would you shake their hand at the sign of Peace? Would you let your cildren shake their hands? Also, should they be told to cover their mouths when they cough or sneeze? Is it rude to say so?

How is it that people can go all out and dress up to a Dance, Theatre, Wedding, Easter, Christmas party, But, not dress up to see the Lord?

One of the Spiritual Works of Mercy. To instruct the Ignorant.

 

[Lennox]

Because, dear friend, the faithful have the right to have the Mass said properly and the Priest has the duty and obligation to say it that way.

And you are making yourself the arbiter of what it takes to celebrate the Mass “right” based on your understanding of the rubrics? Stop for a moment and consider: Do you think the celebrating priest knows the rubrics? There is an almost absolute certainty he does. So exactly what do you expect your comments to accomplish?

If the priest does not strike his breast at the confiteor (assuming he chooses to use the confiteor), or not to bow during the creed or demand silence prior to the Mass, does that the Mass is “not said properly”? No.

While I am not in agreement with everything Malkin is proposing, he is 100% right in wanting the Mass to be said according to the rubrics. What may help you is to understand that the Mass is the public prayer of the Church, so when a Priest or Deacon or Extraordinary Minister or lector is called upon to serve, we (the rest of the congregation) just want them to do it the correct way to the best of their abilities.

The priest is under no obligation to follow either Malkin’s, mine or your own private interpretations of the rubrics. That’s extremely difficult for some to accept. Let me leave you with something to ponder.

The need to try and control things during the Mass is largely based on one’s own pride and not a desire to show any more respect to God. That’s a tough one to accept but I encourage you to think/pray a bit on that.

The comment “Take a hard look at the EMHC’s. Do we really need them so Mass will be over in a half hour or 45 minutes? Does the Parish know the parts of Mass and the proper gesters and their meanings? Strike their breast at the Confeitior, Bow during the Nicean Creed, Silence before Mass, etc… This is what I want! This is my goal!” is unsettling to me and probably a lot of pastors out there.

Yes, I’m sure one could give (name removed by moderator)ut on EMsHC if they were on a “liturgy committee” but the rest is really no individual parishioner’s business. And the fact they are even concerned about these matters is problematic to say the least.

Many people here won’t understand that. They will attempt to justify their desires under the justification of “for the greater glory of God!” yet the real reason is quite different. Finding out what that real reason is can be extremely eye-opening and beneficial to one’s spiritual life.

 

[truevaticanii]

Could anything we wear merit or earn God’s approval? I think not.

once again the question is not “Does God really care about what I wear?”
The question is “What is the best thing I can wear for my Lord and God?”

…he’ll understand if all you can afford is a t-shirt, some over-alls, and a pair of boots, but if you have a white button down shirt and a tie with some black shoes sittin’ in your closet at home when you had the opportunity to change into them, then you should wear those for the Lord rather than what you were just wearing to go out and work in the fields.

 

[gh4]

I got into this discussion with a friend of the family who is a Priest. He uses this as for proper dress at Mass. Also, like I have said people can go out and spend $$$$ on a night on a town, Movies, Theatre, Sporting events, Dinners, subscriptions to cable tv, Dish tv, cell phones, etc… and they will moan when they are told not to wear jeans, tshirts, sweatpants, tennis shoes, etc… to Mass! Also in the discussion the Priest said the same people will come asking for money to pay for their cell phones, cable bill, etc…

People can give up material things and make a sacrafice for God. Dress for respect! Jobs do require it. Jury Duty requires it. Michele Obama wore a Mantilla when meeting the Pope! First impressions matter.

The relaxed atmosphere of the 70’s and 80’s has polluted the Church. When I was younger the nuns drilled into your head about how to dress for Mass.

Also, true story. About 1979 or 1980 I was serving 12:00 p.m. Sunday Mass. We were waiting for the Church bells to ring so we can start to process up the main aisle. We had a paper boy wo looked to be around 7. He looked and dressed like 'Pig Pen" from Peanuts. He looked like he was playing in dirt. He was leaning agaist the glass wall. The Pastor at the time scolded him by telling him that he is “dirtying up the galss and making a mess of it.” Also, he said, “He should take a Bath! and Why don’t you take a Bath!” The Priest was right to make that comment.

Why do you care so much what other people wear to Mass? You should worry about YOU and your family, and if you don’t like what others wear, don’t look. I can honestly say that I don’t normally notice what other folks wear at Mass. This past weekend I looked and saw just about everything except formal clothing, and there was nothing that was revealing worn by anyone.
When I was a kid, I did wear my Sunday clothes to church, but I also had to wear dresses to school until I was a junior in high school, and then we were allowed to wear pants. The entire world was different then, not just the Church. Leave it to Beaver days are gone, not that this is necessarily a good thing, but I don’t think we’ll see those days again any time soon.
If your priest is not unhappy with people, why make problems?

 

[Lennox]

…About 1979 or 1980 I was serving 12:00 p.m. Sunday Mass. We were waiting for the Church bells to ring so we can start to process up the main aisle. We had a paper boy wo looked to be around 7. He looked and dressed like 'Pig Pen" from Peanuts. He looked like he was playing in dirt. He was leaning agaist the glass wall.** The Pastor at the time scolded him by telling him that he is “dirtying up the galss and making a mess of it.” Also, he said, “He should take a Bath! and Why don’t you take a Bath!”** The Priest was right to make that comment.

How terribly sad. It’s tragic that priest could not summon the grace to treat that boy in a tactful manner or at least remain silent. It makes one wonder what events in that own priest’s life prompted him to attack the boy in that manner?

 

[TheDoctor]

And you are making yourself the arbiter of what it takes to celebrate the Mass “right” based on your understanding of the rubrics? Stop for a moment and consider: Do you think the celebrating priest knows the rubrics? There is an almost absolute certainty he does.

Me? Heck no. I’m not that smart. That’s way the Pope and the Bishops have quantified the rubrics for everyone. Yes, the Priest is expected to know and follow them as are the laity. See, it is not the priest’s Mass or the laity’s Mass, it is our Mass, the public prayer of the Church. I think some of my brothers and sisters do nit-pick the optional parts, but the mandatory ones are just that. The arbiter is the Bishop.

So exactly what do you expect your comments to accomplish?

??? I was trying to help you understand another poster’s point of view. What specific comments do you mean?

If the priest does not strike his breast at the confiteor (assuming he chooses to use the confiteor), or not to bow during the creed or demand silence prior to the Mass, does that the Mass is “not said properly”? No.

Silence during Mass is not in the rubrics (see my first response). If the Priest does violate some of the rubrics, it makes the Mass illicit but not invalid. And while valid, there is no reason it should not still be licit.

The priest is under no obligation to follow either Malkin’s, mine or your own private interpretations of the rubrics. That’s extremely difficult for some to accept. Let me leave you with something to ponder.

The need to try and control things during the Mass is largely based on one’s own pride and not a desire to show any more respect to God. That’s a tough one to accept but I encourage you to think/pray a bit on that.

You are incorrect. There is no interpretation of the rubrics required. It is spelled out in clear detail what the priest and the laity can and cannot do. That whole “control Mass” thing does not make sense. Asking that things be done as the Pope and the Bishops wish them to be done in not control, it is faithfulness to the Vicar of Christ and to the Successors of the Apostles.

The comment “Take a hard look at the EMHC’s. Do we really need them so Mass will be over in a half hour or 45 minutes? Does the Parish know the parts of Mass and the proper gesters and their meanings? Strike their breast at the Confeitior, Bow during the Nicean Creed, Silence before Mass, etc… This is what I want! This is my goal!” is unsettling to me and probably a lot of pastors out there.

Yes, I’m sure one could give (name removed by moderator)ut on EMsHC if they were on a “liturgy committee” but the rest is really no individual parishioner’s business. And the fact they are even concerned about these matters is problematic to say the least.

As I said, I don’t agree with all Malkin is saying. I think EMHC are needed and it should only be up to the Pastor as to how many to use and why. However, what is problematic is a laity that was not so well educated that they just blindly accept and refuse to be educated about their own faith.

Many people here won’t understand that. They will attempt to justify their desires under the justification of “for the greater glory of God!” yet the real reason is quite different. Finding out what that real reason is can be extremely eye-opening and beneficial to one’s spiritual life.

Many people where don’t understand? On the forums? At your church? On your block??? Anything done for the Church is, by definition, done for the greater glory of God. And while we can argue some of the optional stuff (like dress codes or EMHC or silence before Mass or communion in the hand or the OF vs. the EF) we know that the more we adhere to the non-negotiable stuff the closer the Church comes to what God wants His Church to be.

 

[TheDoctor]

Also, true story. About 1979 or 1980 I was serving 12:00 p.m. Sunday Mass. We were waiting for the Church bells to ring so we can start to process up the main aisle. We had a paper boy wo looked to be around 7. He looked and dressed like 'Pig Pen" from Peanuts. He looked like he was playing in dirt. He was leaning agaist the glass wall. The Pastor at the time scolded him by telling him that he is “dirtying up the galss and making a mess of it.” Also, he said, “He should take a Bath! and Why don’t you take a Bath!” The Priest was right to make that comment.

Right? Debatable. Christ-like? Far from it. Perhaps Father did what he thought was right, but remember He is called to be Christ to all. I just can’t see the defense of that, sorry.

 

[Joannm]

Right? Debatable. Christ-like? Far from it. Perhaps Father did what he thought was right, but remember He is called to be Christ to all. I just can’t see the defense of that, sorry.

Right. No one knows what the situation was. The water could have been turned off in the boy’s home because the parents did not pay the water bill, or there was no hot water for a bath. The boy could have been homeless or poor. We see a lot of dirty kids at the soup kitchen. Father had no right to scold the boy.

We have a man who used to come to mass every day, disheveled, smelly, dirty. But if you spoke to him you would understand he had a rough life.

 

[Orogeny]

Post 60 shows where in Matthew about being invited to a banquet and not having propper attire. Also, I know of Priests who will agree with me on it too!

From earlier in the Gospel of Matthew: “This is why I speak to them in parables, because ‘they look but do not see and hear but do not listen or understand.’ Isaiah’s prophecy is fulfilled in them, which says: ‘You shall indeed hear but not understand you shall indeed look but never see. Gross is the heart of this people, they will hardly hear with their ears, they have closed their eyes, lest they see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and be converted, and I heal them.’” (Matthew 13:13-15)

It is a parable and has nothing to do with clothes. If you or your priest friend don’t understand that, you are among those that Jesus was discussing.

Also, if you see somone a adult or child who has a cold or flu and they are coughing and sneezing without covering their mouth and they are doing it around you at Mass.

Bit of a different scenario than you presented in your earlier post, isn’t it? You said the SEVEN YEAR OLD CHILD was dirty and was rebuked by your priest for leaning against a glass wall and making it dirty. I’m sure Jesus was smiling at that incredible act of charity by the priest. And you are proud of the priest.

Would you shake their hand at the sign of Peace? Would you let your cildren shake their hands? Also, should they be told to cover their mouths when they cough or sneeze? Is it rude to say so?

Completely different scenario as I noted above.

How is it that people can go all out and dress up to a Dance, Theatre, Wedding, Easter, Christmas party, But, not dress up to see the Lord?

I think people should dress up for Mass, but I am not willing to keep ANYONE from attending Mass based on their dress. How is it that some people like yourself would?

One of the Spiritual Works of Mercy. To instruct the Ignorant.

Incredible!:banghead: Pride is one of the seven deadly sins, you know.

Peace

Tim

 

[Claire_from_DE]

So, Malkin, what did you do in the meeting? How was it received?