A
At_Trent
Guest
looks like we have enough to form the CA Inquisition Team
:knight1::knight1::knight1::knight1: :knight2::knight2::knight2::knight2:
:knight1::knight1::knight1::knight1: :knight2::knight2::knight2::knight2:
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M
Melchior_1
Guest
The sad thing is, like in most cases of disobedience, they have so many ideas that are off base that it makes Rome not even consider the ones that they can actually consider.
Celibacy being revoked can actually happen. It probably won’t (and I don’t think it should) happen, but it can. The other stuff they want to do ranges from asinine to literally impossible, which means their legit concerns won’t be heard.
NOBODY EXPECTS THE CA INQUISITION.
Celibacy being revoked can actually happen. It probably won’t (and I don’t think it should) happen, but it can. The other stuff they want to do ranges from asinine to literally impossible, which means their legit concerns won’t be heard.
.
NOBODY EXPECTS THE CA INQUISITION.
C
Corki
Guest
P
PJM
Guest
A frightning reality I fear… BUT NO DOUBT God is still in charge!
A
ANNE_2
Guest
Reports of unfaithful and disobedient Clergy in Austria have been posted on the internet for some time.
catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=10991
We can look forward to the same in the USA, if Bishops do not supervise what is being taught in Seminaries.
And if many of our Seminaries continue refusing to use the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition” as one of their texts.
The CCC is a gift from the Magisterium, which grounds Catholics in the Truth of the Faith.
It keeps them from being lead astray - through the errors of others.
All Catholics over age 15 should read the “Catechism of the Cathoic Church, Second Edition” in its entirety and keep it in their homes for reference.
Priests can not accurately teach, what they do not know.
" The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which I have approved…and the publication of which I order by virtue of my Apostolic Authority, is a statement of the Church’s faith and of Catholic Doctrine, attested to or illumined by Sacred Scripture, the Apostolic Tradition, and the Church’s Magisterium. I declare it to be a sure norm for teaching the Faith and thus a valid and legitimate instrument for ecclesial communion. " - Pope John Paul II
.
catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=10991
We can look forward to the same in the USA, if Bishops do not supervise what is being taught in Seminaries.
And if many of our Seminaries continue refusing to use the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition” as one of their texts.
The CCC is a gift from the Magisterium, which grounds Catholics in the Truth of the Faith.
It keeps them from being lead astray - through the errors of others.
All Catholics over age 15 should read the “Catechism of the Cathoic Church, Second Edition” in its entirety and keep it in their homes for reference.
Priests can not accurately teach, what they do not know.
" The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which I have approved…and the publication of which I order by virtue of my Apostolic Authority, is a statement of the Church’s faith and of Catholic Doctrine, attested to or illumined by Sacred Scripture, the Apostolic Tradition, and the Church’s Magisterium. I declare it to be a sure norm for teaching the Faith and thus a valid and legitimate instrument for ecclesial communion. " - Pope John Paul II
.
B
Bl_Pope_Pius_IX
Guest
Sign me up!
T
Tigg
Guest
I agree, but why don’t you to tell us how you really feel!
Seriously, doesn’t it seem like something major is about to happen, or am I having fanciful flights of imagination? The two opposing sides - the faithful Catholics who love God and the Church, vs the darkness and hatred - aren’t they both becoming more pronounced? I hear of encouraging situations such as a greater love shown toward the Real Presence by many who are spending long hours in Adoration, as much as I hear of the rebellion and heterodoxy within the ranks of the clergy themselves. Whazzup with that?
R
Rich_Olszewski
Guest
Until Cardinal Ximénez, and his assistants Cardinal Biggles, and Cardinal Fang burst in, and Ximenez declares that “Amongst our weaponry are such diverse elements as fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency, an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope, and nice red uniforms.”
Take that, Austrian heretics!
P
PJM
Guest
Hi Anne,
While agreeing with your mesage thre is perhaps a “better way”
Our Bishops [with Romes approval] have issued a NEW More user friendly version entitled:
United Sates Catholic Catehism for Adults…having read all THREE versions as well as the Q & A fill in; this is a much easier read than the 1992, 1994 versions which are as you state tols for clergy and teachers.
God Bless,
Pat
L
LotusCarsLtd
Guest
Let’s just make sure to pray for these and all priests/bishops everywhere.
A
ANNE_2
Guest
Thank you.
We have high school seniors reading the “CCC 2nd Ed”. The results have been very positive. They like the wording in the CCC as well as the footnotes including Scripture which they refer to depending on interest as it relates to todays issues.
The CCC was written for all Countries. And perhaps some societies are not as literate as the average American or Canadian. So other catechisms have been written for those who have a more difficult time understanding. In most of the USA, this is not really necessary for those over age 16.
Whenever there is a take-off, some things are left out. - Important to some perhaps not to others. (I dislike using the words “dumbing down” on any approved text; note the word redactor below.)
If any student wants to know “why” we believe what we do, or be able to explain “why” to others, the “CCC 2d Ed” is the answer.
Many Americans will not settle for “because I said so”, and want to know “why”.
I have read the others you mention including the Compendium.
They are not as thorough as the CCC. Even the index does not reference all the appropriate essential paragraphs relating to paragraphs in the CCC.
The “CCC 2nd Ed” has the info needed for today’s Catholics due to the Society we live in -secularism and relativism.
EWTN also recommends the CCC in many of their programs for all Catholics to read, and has been mentioned by students on the “Rock” program.
Quote from page 9 of CCC - “This work is intended primarily for those responsible for catechesis, first of all Bishops, as teachers of the faith and pastors of the Church.
It is offered to them as an instrument in fulfilling their responsibility of teaching the people of God.
Through the bishops, it is addressed to redactors of catechism to priests and to catechists.
It will also be useful reading for all other Christian faithful.”
(bold print is mine)
" The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which I have approved…and the publication of which I order by virtue of my Apostolic Authority, is a statement of the Church’s faith and of Catholic Doctrine, attested to or illumined by Sacred Scripture, the Apostolic Tradition, and the Church’s Magisterium. I declare it to be a sure norm for teaching the Faith and thus a valid and legitimate instrument for ecclesial communion." - Pope John Paul II CCC pg 5
Catechesis in the USA has been terrible over the last 40 years, and we have lost many Catholics because they did not know “why”.
We have high school seniors reading the “CCC 2nd Ed”. The results have been very positive. They like the wording in the CCC as well as the footnotes including Scripture which they refer to depending on interest as it relates to todays issues.
The CCC was written for all Countries. And perhaps some societies are not as literate as the average American or Canadian. So other catechisms have been written for those who have a more difficult time understanding. In most of the USA, this is not really necessary for those over age 16.
Whenever there is a take-off, some things are left out. - Important to some perhaps not to others. (I dislike using the words “dumbing down” on any approved text; note the word redactor below.)
If any student wants to know “why” we believe what we do, or be able to explain “why” to others, the “CCC 2d Ed” is the answer.
Many Americans will not settle for “because I said so”, and want to know “why”.
I have read the others you mention including the Compendium.
They are not as thorough as the CCC. Even the index does not reference all the appropriate essential paragraphs relating to paragraphs in the CCC.
The “CCC 2nd Ed” has the info needed for today’s Catholics due to the Society we live in -secularism and relativism.
EWTN also recommends the CCC in many of their programs for all Catholics to read, and has been mentioned by students on the “Rock” program.
Quote from page 9 of CCC - “This work is intended primarily for those responsible for catechesis, first of all Bishops, as teachers of the faith and pastors of the Church.
It is offered to them as an instrument in fulfilling their responsibility of teaching the people of God.
Through the bishops, it is addressed to redactors of catechism to priests and to catechists.
It will also be useful reading for all other Christian faithful.”
(bold print is mine)
" The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which I have approved…and the publication of which I order by virtue of my Apostolic Authority, is a statement of the Church’s faith and of Catholic Doctrine, attested to or illumined by Sacred Scripture, the Apostolic Tradition, and the Church’s Magisterium. I declare it to be a sure norm for teaching the Faith and thus a valid and legitimate instrument for ecclesial communion." - Pope John Paul II CCC pg 5
Catechesis in the USA has been terrible over the last 40 years, and we have lost many Catholics because they did not know “why”.
S
Semper_Zelare
Guest
[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 24:42-44[/BIBLEDRB]I agree, but why don’t you to tell us how you really feel!
Seriously, doesn’t it seem like something major is about to happen, or am I having fanciful flights of imagination? The two opposing sides - the faithful Catholics who love God and the Church, vs the darkness and hatred - aren’t they both becoming more pronounced? I hear of encouraging situations such as a greater love shown toward the Real Presence by many who are spending long hours in Adoration, as much as I hear of the rebellion and heterodoxy within the ranks of the clergy themselves. Whazzup with that?
Who knows when the End will come, but we should always be ready for it, because it could come at any moment. Would tomorrow be a good time for Armageddon? I don’t know. Could be. That’s the attitude the Bible tells us to take. Not one of constant fear
, but one of constant vigilance npatrol:and preparedness 
.
G
garysibio
Guest
Threatening to excommunicate these priests does nothing. They must actually be excommunicated. They are leading souls into Hell.
I
irishpatrick
Guest
I believe the west is experiencing a minor chastisement for the apostasy it has entered of its own free will choice. The chastisement has, imo, woken-up some people, while others have simply dug deeper into their trenches. Whether the people who are now awake prevail, will dictate how the world goes from here (I believe they/we will prevail in this spiritual struggle).I agree, but why don’t you to tell us how you really feel!
Seriously, doesn’t it seem like something major is about to happen, or am I having fanciful flights of imagination? The two opposing sides - the faithful Catholics who love God and the Church, vs the darkness and hatred - aren’t they both becoming more pronounced? I hear of encouraging situations such as a greater love shown toward the Real Presence by many who are spending long hours in Adoration, as much as I hear of the rebellion and heterodoxy within the ranks of the clergy themselves. Whazzup with that?
G
garysibio
Guest
Sad, but you’re probably correct.
I
irishpatrick
Guest
Well, it won’t be sad if it can finally turn around the west. Otherwise, the west has little reason to hope.
B
Benay
Guest
Seems to me the key issue is inclusiveness versus exclusiveness or “who is in” versus “who is out” just as much as the issue of disobedience to the rules/Cannon of the Church.
Jesus taught inclusiveness. He ate with prostitutes and tax collectors. He made people uncomfortable because he “broke the rules” frequently and said that the rules were supposed to bring people closer to God and not keep people away.
We have the same issue today. We are quick to excommunicate people who “break the rules” and who are disobedient. Why is that? Is this the way Jesus envisioned his Church? Didn’t he give us the parables of the lost sheep and the lost coin?
As Catholics we have been taught to obey the rules. We have been taught that “Holy Obedience” is a virtue. Dissention is bad and to be punished. To me that smacks of rigid paternalism or militarism where orders are received from on high and filter down to the masses. This works for the military where everyone obeys orders, and has worked for thousands of years for all large scale formal organizations.
Trouble is, people (the masses) change with education. We want more say in the decision-making that will affect our lives and the lives of our children and grandhcildren. As we agitate for a change here and a change there, we upset the status quo.
In my opinion, this is what is happening in Austria. There is an agitation for change, a request for greater inclusiveness. It comes at the same time we hear of movements toward exclusivity (The cathedral in Phoenix, Arizona, forbidding girls and women from serving at the Altar). We are in a period of great dissention where some want changes fast, some want changes slowly, and others don’t want any change at all. We are all the People of God. We need to listen to the voice of Jesus in our own hearts and decide for ourselves which road is best for us individually. We cannot change anyone else, we can only change ourselves. We can express our opinions, but that’s the best we can do.
Excommunicating the Austrian priests without giving them a full and judicious hearing within the Church, is simply bad policy. IMO
Jesus taught inclusiveness. He ate with prostitutes and tax collectors. He made people uncomfortable because he “broke the rules” frequently and said that the rules were supposed to bring people closer to God and not keep people away.
We have the same issue today. We are quick to excommunicate people who “break the rules” and who are disobedient. Why is that? Is this the way Jesus envisioned his Church? Didn’t he give us the parables of the lost sheep and the lost coin?
As Catholics we have been taught to obey the rules. We have been taught that “Holy Obedience” is a virtue. Dissention is bad and to be punished. To me that smacks of rigid paternalism or militarism where orders are received from on high and filter down to the masses. This works for the military where everyone obeys orders, and has worked for thousands of years for all large scale formal organizations.
Trouble is, people (the masses) change with education. We want more say in the decision-making that will affect our lives and the lives of our children and grandhcildren. As we agitate for a change here and a change there, we upset the status quo.
In my opinion, this is what is happening in Austria. There is an agitation for change, a request for greater inclusiveness. It comes at the same time we hear of movements toward exclusivity (The cathedral in Phoenix, Arizona, forbidding girls and women from serving at the Altar). We are in a period of great dissention where some want changes fast, some want changes slowly, and others don’t want any change at all. We are all the People of God. We need to listen to the voice of Jesus in our own hearts and decide for ourselves which road is best for us individually. We cannot change anyone else, we can only change ourselves. We can express our opinions, but that’s the best we can do.
Excommunicating the Austrian priests without giving them a full and judicious hearing within the Church, is simply bad policy. IMO
T
Tigg
Guest
This is moral relativism and it has been condemned by the Church.
C
Corki
Guest
I think you are confused about what excommunication is and what it does. Excommunication is the beginning, not the end of the process. Excommunication is not a judicial penalty but a medicinal one. A person would be excommunicated for objectively wrong acts with the hope he would repent and reform. No hearing is needed for excommunication.
If the priest also violated canon law or his vows, a hearing and a full judicial process would occur. The end of that process is not excommunication but a judicial result. That would be something such as suspension from ministry, removal from public exerciseof his ministry or even removal from the clerical state. The judicial penalties are separate from the Sacramental penalty (excommunication).
B
Benay
Guest
Am I mistaken in my understanding that when a person is excommunicated that they are forbidden the sacraments?
If this is so, then how can an excommunicated Priest celebrate the sacraments if he cannot receive them?
My understanding of excommunication, and I may be wrong, is that a person may be received “back into the Church” only after they have recanted their position and asked for forgiveness.
If these priests do not recant, do they not remain excommunicated and therefore unable to receive the sacraments?
Do you know Corki?
If this is so, then how can an excommunicated Priest celebrate the sacraments if he cannot receive them?
My understanding of excommunication, and I may be wrong, is that a person may be received “back into the Church” only after they have recanted their position and asked for forgiveness.
If these priests do not recant, do they not remain excommunicated and therefore unable to receive the sacraments?
Do you know Corki?
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