A comment on the Holy Father’s Mass at Nationals Stadium [Fr. Z]

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saint_rafael said:
That liturgy was an abomination to God. I feel sorry for the Holy Father who was embarrassed with that pagan music. I saw the Pope wince and look very uncomfortable.

The Holy Father had to recite the awful ICEL translation of the Novus Ordo. How sad that he used the short second Eucharistic prayer that mentions no sacrafice, saints, or martyrs.He had to say “for all” instead of pro multis which he has rightly changed.

I wanted to puke when I saw the misguided faithful who stuck out their “paws” to recieve the sacred host. I wonder hown many will be sacrilegiously left on the ground like at so many Pope JP II Masses.
The news are reporting that apostate pro-arbortion Kerry sacrilegiously received communion!

**This spectable is proof that we need restoration of the Mass of all time. The most beautiful thing this side of heaven.The Novus Ordo must go away as the miserable failure and debacle that has lead to the Church having no priests anymore.
**
Our Lady of Fatima Ora Pro Nobis!
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Hmmmmm. sounds like you are a " Wanderer " reader ! Well, each to his own, Catholicism has a Big Tent. As for " no priests anymore " , I believe that when a society becomes affluent, like the U.S. and Western Europe, Vocations do plummet. It seems like the Church thrives in persecuted and poor areas. Maybe it was ever thus. So we are now getting our vocations from Africa and the Philippines, and the Third World. Its their time.
 
I am truly shocked at the comments of some. Know that you are in my prayers. Opinions are one thing, but some of the things said are way over the line. I do not have to quote them for you all to know which ones they are. These kinds of attitudes and attacks do nothing but alienate those they are trying to convince. That is if they are not plants, and if they are, they are doing an excellent job. I just hope and pray that many of you see what I see being said in describing of all things, the holy mass and the ??Judgments??being made about it and people who of all bad things, like the Novus Ordo. We all have much praying to do for each other.
Many, many prayers and blessings
Deacon Ed B
 
Deacon_Ed_B said:
I am truly sorry you feel that way. But I tend to look for the good and not to pick. Whatever any one says, we truly had a beautiful mass today. No I did not like all the music, I can say that at a lot of masses I attend. But thats not why I attend and participate. It is because my focus is the Eucharist, not the incidentals.
Prayers & Blessings
Deacon Ed B
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Dear Deacon Ed B, if your focus is the Eucharist, why are you not defending Our Lord against the sacrilege committed by John Kerry and Nancy Pelosi, who had the gall to receive communion, at a Papal Mass, no less?

Where is the outcry?!

I have seen ONE comment about this outrage thus far on this thread. I have never seen such lukewarmness in my life! You should be ashamed of yourselves.
 
laudamus_te said:
Dear Deacon Ed B, if your focus is the Eucharist, why are you not defending Our Lord against the sacrilege committed by John Kerry and Nancy Pelosi, who had the gall to receive communion, at a Papal Mass, no less?

Where is the outcry?!

I have seen ONE comment about this outrage thus far on this thread. I have never seen such lukewarmness in my life! You should be ashamed of yourselves.
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I feel sorry for them and pray for them also. I am not their judge, but I certainly would not wish harm or damnation on them. That is not my job. Whatever the state of their souls may be at the time they are called will determine where they go. I wish hell on no one. That is too horrible for me to even contemplate. My outrage will change nothing. It would be like my little dog barking at the moon. Prayers help. Outrage does not. Yes, we can feel angry, but does it make you feel better if you express it, or just get you worked up., I would prefer to stay focused for the long fight, and not worked up.
Prayers (many for us all) and blessings
Deacon Ed B
 
Deacon_Ed_B said:
I am truly shocked at the comments of some. Know that you are in my prayers. Opinions are one thing, but some of the things said are way over the line. I do not have to quote them for you all to know which ones they are. These kinds of attitudes and attacks do nothing but alienate those they are trying to convince. That is if they are not plants, and if they are, they are doing an excellent job. I just hope and pray that many of you see what I see being said in describing of all things, the holy mass and the ??Judgments??being made about it and people who of all bad things, like the Novus Ordo. We all have much praying to do for each other.
Many, many prayers and blessings
Deacon Ed B
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I have to fully agree with Deacon Ed. The comments concerning the mass are nothing less than vial. Much of it seems to reflect a true ignorance of the Chuch and the message that Jesus brought. As Catholic we are called to reach out othersand to respect each other. Doubt that there was anything in the mass that the Pope or someone from his office did not know about or did not approve. I would think that any criticism of the proceedings is a direct criticsm of His Holiness. It is truly saddening to see this type of disrespect.

Peace,
FAB
 
ProVobis said:
Then just by posting on the Traditional board, you’re admitting that it is good and no pickings whatsoever? 😉
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Please do not put words in my mouth.I tend to get in trouble for some of the things I do say. That should be enough.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
 
laudamus_te said:
Dear Deacon Ed B, if your focus is the Eucharist, why are you not defending Our Lord against the sacrilege committed by John Kerry and Nancy Pelosi, who had the gall to receive communion, at a Papal Mass, no less?
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Yes, but did they receive in the hand? 🙂 I know Bill Clinton received on the tongue when the cameras were on him at another Mass.
 
I am a “new” Catholic (having received the sacraments at Easter Vigil) and am learning more every day.

I was shocked at the music selections. I believe it was to appease those who would be offended by not showing our “multiculturalism”. There is such a focus on that in our nation today, instead of coming together of Americans. I am hopeful that the music for the events in New York will be more appropriate and inline with our faith and Pope Benedict’s likes. One of the people directly involved with the music preparations in New York is a graduate of Bishop Kenny High School here in Jacksonville, Florida.

On an aside, did you see Pope Benedict bless & kiss the baby as he was leaving the Mass? It brought tears to my eyes!!!
 
FAB said:
I have to fully agree with Deacon Ed. The comments concerning the mass are nothing less than vial. Much of it seems to reflect a true ignorance of the Chuch and the message that Jesus brought. As Catholic we are called to reach out othersand to respect each other. Doubt that there was anything in the mass that the Pope or someone from his office did not know about or did not approve. I would think that any criticism of the proceedings is a direct criticsm of His Holiness. It is truly saddening to see this type of disrespect.

Peace,
FAB
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The proceedings themselves are what disrespected His Holiness. The music clearly contradicted the Holy Father’s recent remarks on sacred liturgy and music. Respect does not rule over all other things. At times, it is indeed necessary to bring to light the faults of particular matters involved with the Church. If all we did was respect and accept each other, how would have the early church fathers ever refuted the heresies of the Gnostics, Arians, Manichaens, Nestorians, etc.? How, with respect, could of the canon of the Bible be formulated at the Coucil of Carthage, without first refuting the horrible corrupting texts of the heretics. By respect, we must act humanly to one another, but that does not mean acceptance. There is a fine line, and regarding this mass, it must be realized. While we respect the particpants of this mass and those that worked countless hours in preparation for it, its faults need to be realized to prevent such future mistakes.
 
Deacon Ed: I have been very circumspect in my comments so as not to inflame the discussion between the “I’m OK; You’re OK let’s focus on the eucharist” crowd and the “chant only” crowd.

You have stated elsewhere that you are half Cajun. There is no Missa “Chank-a-chank” at St. John’s in Lafayette or in any other parish I am aware of here in south Louisiana. Yes, there are African American parishes here with gospel choirs. But the two Hispanic hymns I heard today reminded me of my favorite South American group Inti-Illimani. Pan pipes, drums, etc. Fine. Cajuns have held faithfully to the traditions of HMC and have not tried to interject the rythyms or style of the Grant St. Dance Hall into the liturgy.

Both the Cubans and the Mexicans have a profound tradition of sacred polyphonic music from the 17th and 18th century in Latin which reflects those cultures. The San Antonio Vocal Arts Ensemble has been performing that type of music for years. I have their CDs and I have heard them in concert in my cathedral.

I have been a member of a cathedral choir for 25 years. I don’t sight read and I don’t read music well. But I can learn and do. I too would never have thought that the Mass of Creation was fitting for a Papal Mass. But compared to what I heard, it was a balm upon my ears.

There are other settings of “Lord Send Out Your Spirit” which are far more pleasing to the ear. And though I didn’t get to hear it, “Spirit of God” was sung. My choir sings it and we sing it from xeroxed copies of the author’s (Robert LeBlanc, OSB) original manuscript.

Our HF has published much about music and the liturgy. The Vesper Service last night gave me such great hopes. I respectfully submit to you that “he who sings prays twice” and that music contributes massively to the liturgy. As such, and in light of the HF’s previous remarks, an “I’m OK; you’re OK, let’s all concentrate on the Eucharist” mentality is a real affront.

This is precisely what I and others have been talking about on this forum. The “I’m OK; you’re OK” crowd got its start way back in 1969 with incorporating Simon and Garfunkle into the liturgy. I’m not OK with this. We have 1500 years of musical tradition from which to draw from. The Cajuns have refrained from Missa Chank a Chank and I would have hoped that others would have done the same.
 
Deacon_Ed said:
I can only comment on the Mass up to the proclamation of the Gospel. With the exception of the music I thought it was very good. As a musician I found the music to be less than what I would have expected for any Mass, let alone a papal Mass. Since the Holy Father has made his expectations of sacred music clear through his actions at the Vatican I am surprised that the organizers did what they did.

Deacon Ed
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Why would you be surprised? The “reformers and progressives” have done this sort of thing since the close of the Vatican II Council.

They don’t care as long as they get their agenda across and their agenda today was to show everyone that no matter what the Vatican says, they are going to do it their way. As one progressive poster put on another forum,

THIS WAS AN AMERICAN MASS👍

Pretty much says it all huh?

Hey the Jesuits got their way for years until Pope John Paul II cracked down on them. Its a tried and true method. Pay lip service to authority, smile, wag your tail and do whatever you darn well please. And if caught, plead ignorance, good intentions or misunderstanding. Maybe appoint a committee to investigate what went wrong, and wait for the uproar to die down. Then keep doing just as you want to. If given clear directives, interpret them in any way you choose to that suits your purpose.

I feel sorry for the Holy Father. I think he is too decent a man to really do what needs to be done.

He needs our prayers now more than ever.
 
Contrary to what some of you may or may not believe, this Polish/Cajun deacon has a good solid background in Gregorian chant and Sacred Music. I love it. I did not hear all of the mass today, as I was involved in other things. What little I did hear was good, and some that I heard, I thought, why? For those who saw it all, if you did not like it. thats OK (I am not an I’m OK, your OK person) But I refuse to get all bent out of shape at bad music, even if at a Papal Mass. There are too many other things to get in an uproar over. If you don’t believe that, think only of the five non-negotiables we try to instill in every Catholic voter. Yet how many will vote for candidates who will support all of them. As the big picture goes, a poor selection of music is small change. Worry about that which attacks our Catholic way of life. Bad music at a mass does not do it.
Prayers & Blessings
Deacon Ed B
 
brotherhrolf said:
Deacon Ed: I have been very circumspect in my comments so as not to inflame the discussion between the “I’m OK; You’re OK let’s focus on the eucharist” crowd and the “chant only” crowd.

You have stated elsewhere that you are half Cajun. There is no Missa “Chank-a-chank” at St. John’s in Lafayette or in any other parish I am aware of here in south Louisiana. Yes, there are African American parishes here with gospel choirs. But the two Hispanic hymns I heard today reminded me of my favorite South American group Inti-Illimani. Pan pipes, drums, etc. Fine. Cajuns have held faithfully to the traditions of HMC and have not tried to interject the rythyms or style of the Grant St. Dance Hall into the liturgy.

Both the Cubans and the Mexicans have a profound tradition of sacred polyphonic music from the 17th and 18th century in Latin which reflects those cultures. The San Antonio Vocal Arts Ensemble has been performing that type of music for years. I have their CDs and I have heard them in concert in my cathedral.

I have been a member of a cathedral choir for 25 years. I don’t sight read and I don’t read music well. But I can learn and do. I too would never have thought that the Mass of Creation was fitting for a Papal Mass. But compared to what I heard, it was a balm upon my ears.

There are other settings of “Lord Send Out Your Spirit” which are far more pleasing to the ear. And though I didn’t get to hear it, “Spirit of God” was sung. My choir sings it and we sing it from xeroxed copies of the author’s (Robert LeBlanc, OSB) original manuscript.

Our HF has published much about music and the liturgy. The Vesper Service last night gave me such great hopes. I respectfully submit to you that “he who sings prays twice” and that music contributes massively to the liturgy. As such, and in light of the HF’s previous remarks, an “I’m OK; you’re OK, let’s all concentrate on the Eucharist” mentality is a real affront.

This is precisely what I and others have been talking about on this forum. The “I’m OK; you’re OK” crowd got its start way back in 1969 with incorporating Simon and Garfunkle into the liturgy. I’m not OK with this. We have 1500 years of musical tradition from which to draw from. The Cajuns have refrained from Missa Chank a Chank and I would have hoped that others would have done the same.
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Very well stated.
 
donmaximuso27 said:
The proceedings themselves are what disrespected His Holiness. The music clearly contradicted the Holy Father’s recent remarks on sacred liturgy and music. Respect does not rule over all other things. At times, it is indeed necessary to bring to light the faults of particular matters involved with the Church. If all we did was respect and accept each other, how would have the early church fathers ever refuted the heresies of the Gnostics, Arians, Manichaens, Nestorians, etc.? How, with respect, could of the canon of the Bible be formulated at the Coucil of Carthage, without first refuting the horrible corrupting texts of the heretics. By respect, we must act humanly to one another, but that does not mean acceptance. There is a fine line, and regarding this mass, it must be realized. While we respect the particpants of this mass and those that worked countless hours in preparation for it, its faults need to be realized to prevent such future mistakes.
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Having never personally met His Holiness, I not going to presume to know his musical preferances. What he has written has encouraged the use of certain music, but they have not thrown out the use of multiculteral music. In our nation’s capital, were all groups come and gather to exchange ideas, it seems only appropriate that all cultures are celebrated in a mass with the Pope presiding. To me it brought together the idea thast we all part of the body of Christ and must bridge those differences between us.
I’m not certain who you are calling a heritic, anyone who does not follow pre Vat.II doctrine or anyone who is not a fan of the TLM. My understanding of a heritic is someone who goes against the teaching of the Church. It seems that many are so angry about the current doctrine of the Church, that they are very close to falling into that catigory. If that is your idea of Traditional Catholicism. then count me out.

Peace, FAB
 
Deacon_Ed_B said:
laudamus te:
why are you not defending Our Lord against the sacrilege committed by John Kerry and Nancy Pelosi, who had the gall to receive communion, at a Papal Mass, no less?
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I think our Lord laughed at this as much as I did. Believe me, he does not need me to defend him.
:rotfl:
Prayers and blessings
Deacon Ed B
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I can’t believe your attitude! You honestly think that Our Lord laughs when sacrilege is committed? He does not NEED YOU TO DEFEND HIM?! Are you serious? What would the martyrs who died defending Him say to that?
 
Deacon_Ed_B said:
If you don’t believe that, think only of the five non-negotiables we try to instill in every Catholic voter. Yet how many will vote for candidates who will support all of them.
Prayers & Blessings
Deacon Ed B
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Deacon Ed

I have a question sort of off topic…I’m new to Catholicism as I have mentioned several times before but I was wondering if you or someone else could explain what the five non-negotiables for the catholic voter are…forgive my ignorance…I know one is they can’t support abortion.

Also, is there even a candidate out there that a catholic can vote for who has the five non negotiable factors?

Sorry to veer off topic but I didn’t want to start a whole new thread to answer this.

Thank you for your help
 
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