A compelling non-Catholic argument

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Most of the other points were already brought up. So I would remind him that the Orthodox Church today recognises ST.Peter as the first bishop of Rome. If all else fails remind him that in the Bible it says, “You are kepha and upon this kepha I will build my church.” What guarentee does he give this church that is built on kepha’s authority? “The gates of Hell will not prevail against it” He has the choice of either believing that the Bible was a lie or, Catholicism is true, because all those who reject this have to reject this Bible statement because if The Church is built on Peter, and if Peter is dead,(if not someone forgot to tell me because then it would add a lot of credibility to our faith), How then could the church stand? He might then say that the Bible took his Authority then you can point out that this was not the nature of Peter’s role according to the Bible and you can ask him were that is in the Bible then you can have him running in circles.

I know a Baptist Minister who works that way too, unfortunarely the winner is who has the best spin not the better arguement.
 
CentralFLJames;3386812]I am sure you know that there is no such concept as Once Saved Always Saved in Church Teaching. Sorry - no. We can toss you the life preserver but you must exert the perspiration to swim for it and put your arms around it and hold on for dear life while praying and waving to the rescue aircraft overhead as the sharks circle. But if you toss away the life preserver and start swimming toward an island on the horizon on your own or fail to work with Jesus chances are you are going down…
If what you say is true “there is no such concept as Once Saved Always Saved in Church Teaching” then what should we make of John 10:27-29 where Jesus says:

27 “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

Or Romans 8:35-39 which says:
35 Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 Just as it is written,“For Your sake we are being put to death all day long;We were considered as sheep to be slaughtered.
”37 But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us.
38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
The passages you highlight and reference are referring to the old Jewish institutions and secular authorities. They do not speak against Christ as head of The Church or to His Church. The apostles always spoke in terms of a community of believers - “brothers in Christ”. There is no concept of a lone ranger, seperated from the flock Christian, except when speaking of those lost and wandered (all heretics and those not in full communion) and Christ going after them to get them back. Anyone seperated from Jesus’ protection is at risk of being devoured by God’s enemies.
 
If what you say is true “there is no such concept as Once Saved Always Saved in Church Teaching” then what should we make of John 10:27-29 where Jesus says:

27 “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and **no one **will snatch them out of My hand.
29 “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and **no one **is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

Or Romans 8:35-39 which says:
35 Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 Just as it is written,“For Your sake we are being put to death all day long;We were considered as sheep to be slaughtered.
”37 But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us.
38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
It should be clear to most who are mature in their faith that divine love never holds the lover hostage nor fences in, nor smothers nor fully possesses and over shadows the beloved. No, agape love necessitates consent just as Mary consented to God’s will before the spiritual consummation of the act of the Incarnation. It is a cooperative sort of love that we Christians are called to. We assent and we confirm daily by our actions, our attitudes and our acts of love. So it should be intuitive here that love can no be taken for granted and permitted to grow stale and cold. If we love God we must choose and reaffirm our desire to remain in love. God will not abandon us ever. But God will not force us to love Him even if we become unfaithful. In other words, to be saved means we must love and trust God - every day of our lives. God will NOT prevent us individually from fleeing Him nor from running away from him to what we imagine are greener pastures. If we get in trouble He will call for us or come looking for us. But if we wander away and reject Him we can be devoured by the wolves if we get too far from the flock. God always respects free will and our right to chose. That is the difference.

There is no contradiction and this answers your concerns.

James
 
CentralFLJames;3393939]
Originally Posted by justasking4
If what you say is true “there is no such concept as Once Saved Always Saved in Church Teaching” then what should we make of John 10:27-29 where Jesus says:
27 “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
Or Romans 8:35-39 which says:
35 Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 Just as it is written,“For Your sake we are being put to death all day long;We were considered as sheep to be slaughtered.
”37 But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us.
38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
CentralFLJames
It should be clear to most who are mature in their faith that divine love never holds the lover hostage nor fences in, nor smothers nor fully possesses and over shadows the beloved. No, agape love necessitates consent just as Mary consented to God’s will before the spiritual consummation of the act of the Incarnation. It is a cooperative sort of love that we Christians are called to. We assent and we confirm daily by our actions, our attitudes and our acts of love. So it should be intuitive here that love can no be taken for granted and permitted to grow stale and cold. If we love God we must choose and reaffirm our desire to remain in love. God will not abandon us ever. But God will not force us to love Him even if we become unfaithful. In other words, to be saved means we must love and trust God - every day of our lives. God will NOT prevent us individually from fleeing Him nor from running away from him to what we imagine are greener pastures. If we get in trouble He will call for us or come looking for us. But if we wander away and reject Him we can be devoured by the wolves if we get too far from the flock. God always respects free will and our right to chose. That is the difference.
There is no contradiction and this answers your concerns.
Your answer does not come close to dealing with the passages that i quoted that deals with the eternal security of the believer. In light of those passages how can you believe that “Once Saved Always Saved” is false?
 
Your answer does not come close to dealing with the passages that i quoted that deals with the eternal security of the believer.
But those passages don’t deal with “the eternal security of the believer.”
In light of those passages how can you believe that “Once Saved Always Saved” is false?
How do you reconcile your selective proof-texting with the entire scope of Scripture? After all, there are several places in the New Testament that quite obviously warn Christians against falling from grace and also warn that not every who calls Christ “Lord” will enter Heaven: Romans 11:17-24, Hebrews 10:26-29, 2 Peter 2:20-21, Matthew 7:21-23, 2 Timothy 4:7-8, 1 Corinthians 4:4, 1 Corinthians 9:27, Luke 8:13, and Philippians 2:12.

After you’ve demonstrated how all of the above doesn’t refute the false doctrine of OSAS, please explain from where you gained the authority to infallibly interpret Scripture to arrive at correct doctrine.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
Your answer does not come close to dealing with the passages that i quoted that deals with the eternal security of the believer. In light of those passages how can you believe that “Once Saved Always Saved” is false?
Many Protestants have used OSAS as a free ticket to sin and commit any desire of the flesh they desired. It is an utterly false doctrine and a teaching of the devil himself that puts people who call themselves Christian straight into hell while searing their consciences with the lie they are going to heaven no matter what they do.

The first person to espouse the idea of “once saved, always saved” was John Calvin in the mid-sixteenth century. Even Martin Luther didn’t subscribe to the theory. Prior to Calvin, the unanimous consent of the early Christians was that a person is capable of losing his salvation by committing mortal sin, as John spoke about in 1 John 5:16–17.

In the first century, the Didache, commonly known as the Teaching of the Twelve Apostles, said “Watch for your life’s sake. Let not your lamps be quenched, nor your loins unloosed; but be ready, for you know not the hour in which our Lord comes. But you shall assemble together often, seeking the things which are befitting to your souls: for the whole time of your faith will not profit you, if you be not made complete in the last time” (Didache 16 [A.D. 70]).

More here: Once Saved Always Saved

Explain away these verses if you can:
Saint Paul: “Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” KJV - Romans 11:22

Saint Paul: "I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. KJV - 1 Cor. 9:26-27

Saint Paul: “Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.” KJV - 1 Cor. 10:12

Saint Paul: “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.” KJV - 2 Cor. 5:10

Saint Paul: “Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.” KJV - Philip. 2:12

1st Corinthians 15:2 states, that vain is the belief of those who go against the word of God.
1st John 1:6 states, "If we say, “We have fellowship with `Jesus’,” while we continue to walk in darkness, we lie & do not act in truth.
1st John 2:15 & 16 - If anyone loves sensual lust, enticements of the eyes, or a pretentious life, the love of God the Father is not in him.
1st John 3:9 & 15 says, “No one begotten by God commits sin”, & “that no murderer has eternal life remaining in him”.
begotten: used in the sense of having been acquired by, permanently committed too.
Romans 8:7-8 “For the concern of the flesh is hostility toward God; it does not submit to the law of God, nor can it; and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.”
Hebrews 10:26-29 “If we sin deliberately after receiving knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries. Anyone who rejects the law of Moses is put to death without pity on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Do you not think that a much worse punishment is due the one who has contempt for the Son of God, considers unclean the covenant-blood by which he was consecrated, and insults the spirit of grace?”
2 Peter 2:20-21 “For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of (our) Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.”

Hebrews 4:6-7 "Therefore, since it remains that some will enter into it, and those who formerly received the good news did not enter because of disobedience, he once more set a day, “today,” when long afterwards he spoke through David, as already quoted: "Oh, that today you would hear his voice: ‘Harden not your hearts.’ "

Hebrews 6:4-6 “For it is impossible in the case of those who have once been enlightened and tasted the heavenly gift and shared in the holy Spirit and tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to bring them to repentance again, since they are recrucifying the Son of God for themselves and holding him up to contempt.”

Hebrews 4:2 “For in fact we have received the good news just as they did. But the word that they heard did not profit them, for they were not united in faith with those who listened.”

Hebrews 12:4-13 “In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood. You have also forgotten the exhortation addressed to you as sons: “My son, do not disdain the discipline of the Lord or lose heart when reproved by him; for whom the Lord loves, he disciplines; he scourges every son he acknowledges.” Endure your trials as “discipline”; God treats you as sons. For what “son” is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are without discipline, in which all have shared, you are not sons but bastards. Besides this, we have had our earthly fathers to discipline us, and we respected them. Should we not (then) submit all the more to the Father of spirits and live? They disciplined us for a short time as seemed right to them, but he does so for our benefit, in order that we may share his holiness. At the time, all discipline seems a cause not for joy but for pain, yet later it brings the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who are trained by it. So strengthen your drooping hands and your weak knees. Make straight paths for your feet, that what is lame may not be dislocated but healed.”

James
 
It should be clear to most who are mature in their faith that divine love never holds the lover hostage nor fences in, nor smothers nor fully possesses and over shadows the beloved. No, agape love necessitates consent just as Mary consented to God’s will before the spiritual consummation of the act of the Incarnation. It is a cooperative sort of love that we Christians are called to. We assent and we confirm daily by our actions, our attitudes and our acts of love. So it should be intuitive here that love can no be taken for granted and permitted to grow stale and cold. If we love God we must choose and reaffirm our desire to remain in love. God will not abandon us ever. But God will not force us to love Him even if we become unfaithful. In other words, to be saved means we must love and trust God - every day of our lives. God will NOT prevent us individually from fleeing Him nor from running away from him to what we imagine are greener pastures. If we get in trouble He will call for us or come looking for us. But if we wander away and reject Him we can be devoured by the wolves if we get too far from the flock. God always respects free will and our right to chose. That is the difference.

There is no contradiction and this answers your concerns.

James
Romans 9:14-18

“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”[f] 16It does not, therefore, depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”[g] 18Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

what do you make of free will, base on this scripture? Where was Pharohs free will when God hardened his heart? Scripture says that Judas was raised up for the purpouse of betraying Christ. Where was his free will? Obviousely, there is a limitation to free will. I think the point of the scriptures Catholics use to debate OSAS, have a different meaning than you think. Do they speak of the first Judgement(righteous or unrighteous) or the second (judgement of our works)? They can all be related to the second Judgement. Also note that when the second judgement takes place, your eternity has already been decided.
from CentralFLJames.
For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them."
This is talking about people who have heard the Truth of the Gospel and turn away from it, not those who are saved. Gods way of saying, Now that youve heard the Truth, I am going to hold you accountable.

As for the flaming fire verse, it is in relation to the second judgement as well.(not hell) In the second judgemet we will be refined by fire,. Not destroyed, but refined.
 
Romans 6:1-14
1What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
5If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection. 6For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with,[a] that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7because anyone who has died has been freed from sin.

8Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.

11In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness. 14For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.

This says that once you are made alive in Christ, we cannot die again.
 
The Holy Spirit
Does the Holy Spirit tell you your interpretation is *the *correct one.

Many many people claim the Holy Spirit guides them in interpreting scripture, and yet we get many opposing doctrines and views. If the Holy Spirit is behind these teachings, then the Holy Spirit is contradicting itself and dare I say, is doing a lousy job at teaching the truh.

Scripture itself says that there is a wrong way to interpret scripture, that many twist them to their own destruction, and that no prophecy in scripture is supposed to be left to one’s own personal interpretation, and finally the eunich admitted that he needed someone to teach him the scriptures.
 
Many believe that man, by his free will, by something that resides in him, is completely able to independently accept or reject God. But this belief is not supported in scripture. As I stated above, man’s will by nature is sinful. What then will a sinful free will choose? It will choose sin. His free will, then, would never allow Him to reach out to God.
But we must ask, “What is free will?”. Generally it is accepted to mean the freedom to choose according to one’s desires. This seems true. But someone is only as free as his nature is free. His will is limited to that which is within his nature. The unregenerate can only choose what his nature allows him to choose. Since he is full of sin, not goodness, his choices can only be sinful.
In other words, a person can choose to do only that which his nature allows him to do. He cannot simply will to suddenly vanish into thin air or fly like Superman because he is incapable of such feats; his nature limits him. So too with the nature of fallen man. He is severely limited by what he can and cannot do.
The sinful man:

cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14).
is full of evil (Mark 7:21-23).
does not seek for God (Rom. 3:11).
is lawless, rebellious, unholy, and profane (1 Tim. 1:9).
How then can the good desire to want God come out of the unsaved’s evil heart? It cannot! How is he able, in his sinful free will, to desire God when his inclinations are always to reject Him? He cannot. How can he, with his blind and sinful will that is deadened, hardened, and enslaved by sin (Rom. 6:20) ever choose God? He cannot! It is impossible. That’s why Jesus said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible” (Matthew 19:26, NIV).
But some still maintain that God works on a person and slowly teaches and guides him or her into believing. Others say that there is something in a person’s free will that enables him to choose God. They maintain that everyone is equally able to accept or reject. But if they are equally free and equally able, then why don’t they all equally accept God, or why don’t they all equally choose to reject Him? Why are there variations in choice? Are the variations a result of a tendency that God gave them? But God made them that way. Is it because of their environment? But God put them there. Is it because of some physical inclination? But God gave them their bodies. Is it because of their parents’ influence? But God gave them their parents.
The fact remains, man is not entirely free; he is sinfully free. The unsaved can act freely, but only within the limits of their sinful nature which cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14), does not seek for God (Rom. 3:11), hates God, and is in slavery to sin (Rom. 6:17,20), etc. That is why Jesus said, “No one can come to Me, unless the Father who sent Me draws him…” (John 6:44), and, “No one can come to Me, unless it has been granted him from the Father” (John 6:65). These are not the statements one would hope to find if the sinner were so free to choose to accept or reject God.
 
Does the Holy Spirit tell you your interpretation is *the *correct one.

Many many people claim the Holy Spirit guides them in interpreting scripture, and yet we get many opposing doctrines and views. If the Holy Spirit is behind these teachings, then the Holy Spirit is contradicting itself and dare I say, is doing a lousy job at teaching the truh.

Scripture itself says that there is a wrong way to interpret scripture, that many twist them to their own destruction, and that no prophecy in scripture is supposed to be left to one’s own personal interpretation, and finally the eunich admitted that he needed someone to teach him the scriptures.
No he does not tell me that my interpretation is right. He reveals the truth to me. That is part of his nature. As to your reference of contradiction, the Holy Spirit is incapable of contradicting itself. But as people, when we dont understand how two things can be equally true (The Faith/Works argument) We assume that they are in contradiction. The wrong way to interpret scripture is by Worldy wisdom, the right way Is through the Spirit. Even if you think sound teaching and interpretation comes from the church, is it still not through the Spirit?
 
Your answer does not come close to dealing with the passages that i quoted that deals with the eternal security of the believer. In light of those passages how can you believe that “Once Saved Always Saved” is false?
Yes. Jesus did not teach Divine Revelation from “the light of passages” but directly from God the Father. Jesus made it clear that man is made in the image and likeness of God, and therefore, has free will, and can abandon God anytime he so desires. The NT is full of examples of those who walked away from Christ.
 
If what you say is true “there is no such concept as Once Saved Always Saved in Church Teaching” then what should we make of John 10:27-29 where Jesus says:

27 “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

Or Romans 8:35-39 which says:
35 Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 Just as it is written,“For Your sake we are being put to death all day long;We were considered as sheep to be slaughtered.
”37 But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us.
38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
This is a very good question. Although nothing in the earth of of demonic origin can separate us, we are made in the image and likeness of God. Therefore, He has ordained that we can “choose life, or death”. No one can “snatch” us, but surely we can jump out of the Hand. :eek:
 
This is a very good question. Although nothing in the earth of of demonic origin can separate us, we are made in the image and likeness of God. Therefore, He has ordained that we can “choose life, or death”. No one can “snatch” us, but surely we can jump out of the Hand. :eek:
Pleas read my above about Free Will.
 
The preceding scriptures clearly show that the Lord is very active in salvation. He did not simply provide the means of salvation, the cross, but He also ensured the application of the blood of Christ through predestination.

Please consider that it is God who:
  • draws people to Himself (John 6:44,65).
  • creates a clean heart (Psalm 51:10).
  • appoints people to believe (Acts 13:48).
  • works faith in the believer (John 6:28-29).
  • chooses who is to be holy and blameless (Eph. 1:4).
  • chooses us for salvation (2 Thess. 2:13-14).
  • grants the act of believing (Phil. 1:29).
  • grants repentance (2 Tim. 2:24-26).
  • calls according to His purpose (2 Tim. 1:9).
  • causes us to be born again (1 Pet. 1:3).
  • predestines us to salvation (Rom. 8:29-30).
  • predestines us to adoption (Eph. 1:5).
  • predestines us according to His purpose (Eph. 1:11).
  • makes us born again not by our will but by His will (John 1:12-13).
    It is man who:
  • is deceitful and desperately sick (Jer. 17:9).
  • is full of evil (Mark 7:21-23).
  • loves darkness rather than light (John 3:19).
  • is unrighteous, does not understand, does not seek for God (Rom. 3:10-12).
  • is helpless and ungodly (Rom. 5:6).
  • is dead in his trespasses and sins (Eph. 2:1).
  • is by nature a child of wrath (Eph. 2:3).
  • cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14).
  • is a slave of sin (Rom. 6:16-20).
    How can it be any other way than God’s loving predestination to make our salvation not only possible, but also a reality? Left to man, salvation is impossible: “When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, ‘Who then can be saved?’ Jesus looked at them and said, ‘With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible’” (Matthew 19:25-26). That is why it must be God who opens the heart: “And a certain woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple fabrics, a worshiper of God, was listening; and the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul” (Acts 16:14).
    This is what truly glorifies God, that in His infinite mercy He is gracious enough to save those who would always reject Him, always hate Him, and always malign Him. Praise Him and His love!
 
God is sovereign. Sovereignty means that God is supreme in power and authority, that He answers to no one, and that He may do as He pleases for whatever reason He chooses. “Declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things which have not been done, saying, ‘My purpose will be established, and I will accomplish all My good pleasure’” (Isaiah 46:10); “…to do whatever Thy hand and Thy purpose predestined to occur” (Acts 4:28); “…this Man [Jesus], delivered up by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross…” (Acts 2:23).
Out of a people of utter sinfulness and inability, God has chosen, by His sovereign grace, to elect some into salvation and not others. Remember, there is nothing in man that merits any favor, blessing, or mercy whatsoever. For there is no favoritism with God (Rom. 2:11). Each and every person is entirely worthy of wrath and incapable of saving himself. That is why God has chosen a people to Himself out of the good pleasure of His heart. Because without His choosing, none would ever come to Him. Therefore, predestination is a loving doctrine: “…In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ…” (Eph. 1:4,5).
He chooses some and ignores others not because of what the person has done, or what is foreknown that he would do, but simply because of God’s sovereign choice: “[God] who has saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity” (2 Tim. 1:9); and, “for though the twins had not done anything good or bad, in order that God’s purpose according to His choice might stand, not because of works, but because of Him who calls, it was said to her, ‘The older will serve the younger.’ Just as it is written, ‘Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated’” (Rom. 9:11-13; see also, Psalm 11:5).
Code:
  Sovereignty is why God has mercy on whom He desires and hardens whom He desires: "For He says to Moses, 'I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.' So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy...So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires" (Rom. 9:15,16,18). This is sovereignty! It is God who is in control.
  Some He has elected to salvation, others He has not: "...for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also appointed" (1 Pet. 2:8); And, "What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? And He did so in order that He might make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory" (Rom. 9:22-23). It seems quite clear that God prepares some for mercy and not others. That is sovereignty.
 
…well seems to me that if the Founder of our religion…Jesus wanted to leave His teachings in written form He would simply have invented the printing press and order His staff to hand them out…instead,knowing how words and meanings travel like a roller coaster ride…He left a ‘chair’ of sorts…in whomever sits in this ‘chair’ the Pope…speaks for Jesus during the time He has been elevated to that position. The word '‘square’ as in …a square deal.used to mean fair and honest…then the powers that be changed the meaning into…outdated and naive! To be called a ‘long hair’ was to be interested in classical music etc…during the free sex-drug era that was changed into being a hippie…with it!..receiving a ‘cool’ reception used to mean…indiferent…that was changed into being a great one…and so it goes…need I mention the simple word 'gay’which used to mean a person who was light hearted and joyfull etc etc…so Jesus anticipating all of this decided to invent a church that would have as its head,a person who,since he represents all moral truth during the time of his pontificate…cant err…makes sense to me…but of course so did the marriage vow …and my wife and I are still married…shhhh…I know,am not pc in too many ways…
 
He’s not making any such claim, in fact he claims to be neither Protestant nor Catholic, but rather, simply Christian. I suppose this is because he’s not into the idea of apostolic succession to begin with. He argues that to fulfill the OFFICE of the apostles, one must have personally been a witness to Christ. Therefore, he says, the writings of the apostles are what we should look to for guidance, and nothing more.
He’s Protestant whether he likes to admit it or not, tell him to trace his teaching, and he will see that all roads lead through Rome.

He’s also confusing being an apostles of Jesus with apostolic succession. 1 Tim 4:14 and Acts 6:6 are two example of what we mean by apostolic succession.

And apparently Paul wasn’t an apostle of Christ according to his definition…

And we do look to the writings of the apostles and those writing tell us the church is the pillar and foundation of truth and this ‘church’ has bishops, priests/elder, and deacons (meaning the church was organized) and to hold fast to tradition which you were taught, and to not divide his church.

Peace in Christ
 
God is sovereign. Sovereignty means that God is supreme in power and authority, that He answers to no one, and that He may do as He pleases for whatever reason He chooses…
Not so fast. God does answer to someone. God answers to His own Divine Nature. That is, God answers to Himself. God answers to His 2nd person and His 3rd person and each to the other in an indivisible and mysterious way. And least we forget we know through Christology that Jesus, the divine-human is hipostatically joined to God through His 2nd person. Thus God is not some distant and indifferent Greek god sitting on Olympus making willie-nillie and fickle decisions.** God [is] with us (Emmanuel).**

God has a Nature and God is unchanging.

The Nature and Attributes of God
I. As Known Through Natural Reason
A. Infinity of God
B. Unity or Unicity of God
C. Simplicity of God
D. Divine Personality
II. As Known Through Faith
A. Eternity
B. Immensity and Ubiquity, or Omnipresence
C. Immutability
D. The Divine Attributes
1. Divine Knowledge
2. The Divine Will
3. Intellect and Will (Providence, Predestination, and
Reprobation)

Distinctions in the Divine Will

As distinctions are made in the Divine knowledge, so also in the Divine will, and one of these latter is of sufficient importance to deserve a passing notice here. This is the distinction between the antecedent and consequent will, and its principal application is to the question of man’s salvation. God, according to St. Paul (1 Timothy 2:4),“wills that all men be saved”, and this is explained to be an* antecedent will*; that is to say, abstracting from circumstances and conditions which may interfere with the fulfilment of God’s will (e.g., sin on man’s part, natural order in the universe, etc.), He has a sincere wish that all men should attain supernatural salvation, and this will is so far efficacious that He provides and intends the necessary means of salvation for all – sufficient actual graces for those who are capable of cooperating with them and the Sacrament of Baptism for infants. On the other hand, *the consequent will *takes account of those circumstances and conditions and has reference to what God wills and executes in consequence of them. It is thus, for example, that He condemns the wicked to punishment after death and excludes unbaptized infants from the beatific vision.

Predestination and reprobation

Predestination and reprobation are those special parts of Divine Providence which deal specially with man’s salvation or damnation in the present supernatural order. Predestination is the foreknowledge on the part of God of those who will de facto be saved and the preparation and bestowal of the means by which salvation is obtained, while reprobation is the foreknowledge of those who will de facto be damned and the permission of this eventuality by God. In both cases an act of the intellect (infallible foreknowledge), and an act of the will are supposed; but whereas in predestination the antecedent and consequent will is the same, in reprobation God wills consequently what He does not antecedently will at all but only permits, namely, the eternal punishment of the sinner.

Note that while God has this infallible foreknowledge, we on our part cannot have an absolutely certain assurance that we are among the number of the predestined – unless indeed by means of a special Divine revelation such as we know from experience is rarely, if ever, given. This follows from the Tridentine condemnation of the teaching of the Reformers that we could and ought to believe with the certainty of faith in our own justification and election (Sess. VI, cap. ix, can. xiii-xv).

James
 
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