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protestantman
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No I have not. I do not even know where to get a hold of these books.
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Stephen_C
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protestantman
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The bible is the Word of God. The word of God is Christ. Who must you have faith in to gain salvation?
There are teachers within the Church, but the Church itself is not a teaching institution. Is it not evident that not all are apostles and not all are teachers.
Ephrsians 2:11-22
**One in Christ **
11Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (that done in the body by the hands of men)— 12remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.
14For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, 16and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.
19Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God’s people and members of God’s household, 20built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. 22And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.
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protestantman
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This is my point. My beliefs are based on my own examination of scripture. I would not throw away that which was given to me by the HS to adopt another doctrine. If Christ is in me and I live by the Spirit, I see no other requirements for my salvation.You would have to abandon your personal opinions - and you’ll have to do that before you die, anyway, in order to get to Heaven, so why not get in a little practice here and now?
In the same way that when you put your key in the car, you have to follow the rules of the road, instead of driving on the sidewalks or ignoring the signs and signals - the rules are there to keep us safe on our journey to Heaven. And just as having a car and following the rules of the road leads to freedom, so does having rules in the Church - especially since it is God, who knows what we need better than anybody, who gave us those rules in the first place.
Also thanks for the clarifiacation about the 73/46 books.
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protestantman
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You assume that I believe that all my opinions are absolute. Understand that I am fallible. I am strong in my faith. I am only proud of the things that God has done through me. For I have done nothing of myself that is of any worth. I never made a claim that it was supreme. I stated that I have the same(or equall) authority to interprete scripture.
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jmcrae
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The Bible is not Christ, though. The Bible is one of many products of the Holy Tradition that was given to the Apostles by Christ, and passed down by them through their successors (the Bishops) to us.
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jmcrae
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And you are more likely to be right than thousands of theologians and mystics from all over the world, working together for 2,000 years, who have all come to the same conclusions as the Catholic Church?
“If” - yes. What if you are not, in fact, being led by the Holy Spirit, but only by your own personal opinions? What if you are leaning on your own understanding? (Proverbs 3)
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protestantman
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Yet I do not require your aproval, nor the aproval of the Catholic church. I AM a christian, and only God can Judge the truth of my claim.
No. Unity comes from seeking a common goal, despite other differences. Our unity is in Christ.
So you think that the HS can not stand on its own, without the words or writtings of men?
What does 1 Corinthians 2 say about the Truth?
ALL revelation comes from the HS.
The bible has many ways to root out false prophets. Fruits of the Spirit is one. It also is clear that in order to know a man as a false prophet, one must be living in the Spirit himself.
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jmcrae
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Why is this supposed to be a good thing?
If you can be wrong and change your mind, then aren’t you building your house on shifting sand?
Instead, you should build your house on the Rock of Peter!!
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deanarrca
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Hi Protestant Man, This is just a side note:
If you have never read the Deutercanonical Books they are really interesting and fill in a lot of holes.
Anyway as a kid I always wondered about the Jewish celebration of Hanukkah-- The Jews are a people of the Book- They celebrate this Festival of Lights, it is suppose to be a great miracle- So why isn’t it mentioned in the Old Testament?
Well surprise it is. It is in the First Book of Maccabees
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ibkc
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They are in the back of most Protestant Bibles under the name of “The Apocrypha.”
Do you not see how you contradict yourself here? On the one hand, you say that your reading of scripture comes directly from the Holy Spirit. On the other, you say you’re fallible. So which is it? Your reading of scripture is from the Holy Spirit and is infallible, or your reading of scripture is your own and is fallible?
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ni8_shadow
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I very much admire your commitment to the study of God’s Word. Something many Catholics can not claim to have done. That being said, you know very well that their is no absolute assurance that your, or anyone else’s in protestantism, interpretation of the Word is* the* true one. No one in protestantism claims infallible interpreting abilities, therefore you can in no way be totally, without a doubt, sure that your interpretation is more right than protestant A or Z.
The Catholic Church IS Christ’s Church and He promised to be with it and guide it into all truth. Not some truth, or a pretty good guess about the truth, but the whole, honest, and only truth. The scriptures command us to stay away from those who teach doctrine contrary to what Christ and the apostles taught and the only Churches that can contend to hold the beliefs that can be traced back to the time of the early church are the Catholic and Orthodox Churches.
The Catholic Church is the fullness of Christianity, meaning that other churches may hold part of it. But if you know there has to be a Church around with the fullness of the faith, with assurance of the truth, then you must seek it out. And there IS a Church around with that fullness, since Christ Himself promised that nothing would defeat it.
Be prayin for ya man…as I am sure you are praying for us.
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Orionthehunter
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deanarrca
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Actually they aren’t. I was a Protestant(Fundamentalist/Evangelical) for over 20 years and had several different versions and they weren’t in a one of them. The Only exception was one my Mom had from Her Anglican Church (I can’t remember what version it was) and it had them in the back.
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ibkc
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Ah, thanks for that. I am most familiar with the Episcopal Church and our bibles had them.
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CentralFLJames
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This is unbiblical. The Church are those who believe in Jesus and DO as He commands and instructs. Catholics worship God in His Three Persons. We do not worship the Bible.
James
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protestantman
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I do, but only by the grace of God.
I have never disagreed with authority in the church. I do however believe that the Catholic Church has used their authority in a way that caused dissunity.
Absolutely. I dig into the scriptures to draw closer to God. If I continue to seek hi and the HS, I am guarded from falling into this trap of Satan. I am but a child in my faith, but there is definate evidence in my life, that the HS is preparing me for solid food. I judge myself harsher than anyone. I feel that I have recieved a gift that I do not deserve. I find it hard to believe that Christ willingly sacrificed himself so that I might recieve that gift. I never proclaim my good deeds to be of my own doing, but rather the action of the HS living in me.
Agreed, and this is exactly what I was refering to. Outside the basis of Christ, is Satans playground.
Well of course. It was set up many years ago. Why would the pastor need to set up something that already exists. But in Protestant churches, it has not always been established.
If only I were freely welcomed. As I have adressed that I am not in another post.
Yes but not before creation. And we are part of the Body of Christ in which Christ himself is the Head. We are not actually Christ.
Not mystically joined. That is an improper way to word it. Christ established the Church upon himself. The church is built on the foundation of Christ. It is not as though the foundation is somehow mystically intertwined with the rest of the building.
Our cooperation requires the HS. Your interpretation of the meaning of “Gates of Hell” are just that, an interpretation. It does not say that the church is protected against the Hosts of Hell. I have thought of that phrase to be based on a final judgement. When will a sinner see the gates of Hell? He will see them upon the completion of his judgement. This is an example of where I think the church has made an interpretation based on what they want to believe. Notice, it also says nothing about infallibility teaching.
On the day I am freely welcomed, I will.
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protestantman
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I know I can find them online. Where can I get an actual bible with the deuterocanonal books in it?
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deanarrca
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Amazon.com
Try the RSV Catholic Ed.
RSV=Revised Standard Version
Actually you have to type the Long name Revised Standard Version Catholic Ed. in the search- it didn’t like just RSV
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jmcrae
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Any fairly large bookstore should have them. Even our local Protestant book store has a Catholic section.
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