M
Msgr_Rolo
Guest
Sometimes if we use authority, in essence, it will mean more.
God bless
God bless
- Status
D
DMC12
Guest
I suggest you try to speak with him, but in a calm way, maybe he did it with good intentions, this might be farfetched but nonetheless can be true, I mean, I used to think that saying “Oh my God”, was indeed a devotion and was right when people did it.
or could be that he is now an atheist, those who left the Church in anger due to some reasons, and going to him angrily and such could only make them hate us more. just think what would Jesus or the Pope do? i think they would approach him with love, so they could see the truth, you know if you help them to change from militant atheist to atheist who respect others people beliefs, it would be a great step into opening them to come back to the Church.
or could be that he is now an atheist, those who left the Church in anger due to some reasons, and going to him angrily and such could only make them hate us more. just think what would Jesus or the Pope do? i think they would approach him with love, so they could see the truth, you know if you help them to change from militant atheist to atheist who respect others people beliefs, it would be a great step into opening them to come back to the Church.
M
Msgr_Rolo
Guest
The only thing I would add to this, is that we should pray for these young adults and forgive them ourselves as we’ve been taught to do in the “Our Father.”
M
Msgr_Rolo
Guest
You are missing the entire point. Why should we forgive him, it is not us he has offended, but God. Yes, we can pray for him, but it is not our business to forgive him for the immature actions he has performed.
Let God be his judge and not us.
Let God be his judge and not us.
L
Lormar
Guest
It became okay when there was no one to teach the young children to be respectful and reverent of the Blessed Sacrament. When they were taught that the Mass was only a community meal and not the unbloody sacrifice of Calvary.Hi CAF,
This is more of a rant post, but I am completely OUTRAGED at something I saw on Twitter just now. I saw looking at one of the altar boy’s from my parish twitter page while looking for a mutual friend, and I saw that the altar boy posted a picture of a hamburger with the host laid all over it as it is were some kind of condiment!I don’t care if they were consecrated or not, that is mockery, and it is horrible! After I stopped shaking, I noticed he had several other picture such as his friend hanging off the statue of Jesus, and of his hand with Ashes on his fingers and cursing in the description box.
Thank you.
It became okay when they watched, week after week, either their parish priests or other parishioners carelessly handle the Blessed Sacrament, pass by the Tabernacle without even so much of a glance, chomp on It when they receive Him like gum or, worse yet, keep the gum in their mouth when they received Holy Communion.
I could go on, but you get the point. While I realize that some parishes are not like what I have described, the one I attend unfortunately is. Just yesterday after Mass while I was in the Blessed Sacrament chapel and watched a few EMs come in to “help themselves” to Hosts all the time chatting away like a couple of magpies, I thought to myself how we had the fear of God instilled in us back in the “old days” and no one would have even dreamed of doing what is now done so casually and to which we have all become too accustomed to.
Z
z_0101
Guest
IMHO, you have missed the point.
When we sin, we sin against ourselves, against God, against the Body of Christ (the Church), and the person(s) harmed - this is basic catechises. It’s just that normally, ones sins are not usually so, public (of course, robbery, murder, etc… ).
This person, by their act, committed a sin, I don’t think that anyone here can actually argue this point - this is not judgement, this is simple common sense. The individual in question was an altar server and as such knew and knows the meaning behind the sacrament and the sacramentals that he profaned and with knowledge and intent, committed at least one if not more acts of sacrilege which we know from the CCC and the Code of Canon Law to be sinful. While if these acts rise to the level of Mortal or a Venial, that is for our Lord to decide.
We, as the Church, as the Body of Christ, through the common priesthood established by our baptism in Christ, have the right to take offense at this particular public act - this former altar-boy has, with apparent intent, made a mockery of the Church thru these sacrilegious acts and for some unknown reason, compounded the issue by insuring that the entire world might also be exposed to these actions. We have a right to ask our shepherd to take some action.
Offense is not condemnation, nor even necessarily judgement; however, we still need, as the laity, to forgive, and to pray for this individual. This may be a cry for help… maybe the Holy Spirit provided the opportunity for the posting… this is why we need to set aside any anger we may feel, this is why we need to pray for this person, just as our Lord asked the Father to forgive us, so as the Body of Christ, we must follow this example, and ask the Lord to forgive us our anger and to forgive these former altar-boys
I would think that a Monsignor would understand this – or is it the fact that you are attempting to use the french form for “Mister” and are not actually clergy?
Z
z_0101
Guest
Here again, a chance to pray for the deepening of the faith…
I am blessed to have three parishes fairly close to each other, and whithin my area Catholic schools this reverence is taught. I also teach relgious education class, and the true meaning of the Mass is taught!
(Of course, we’re of a Franciscan founding… perhaps the difference?)
I assure you, that is not what is taught in a majority of Catholic Schools and Catholic religious education courses.
When on vacation, the worst I run across is usually the music. The Masses usually conform to the Rubrics (sometimes the shortest forms and others Churches “pull out all the stops!”) and the congregation is/are ususually very respectfull. I even found a Church where the communion rail was used in addition to the more common pass it out method. (I’d never used a communion rail; thus, I didn’t then either; however, I watched very closely, perhaps next time :yup: )
Blame the parents.
I am blessed to have three parishes fairly close to each other, and whithin my area Catholic schools this reverence is taught. I also teach relgious education class, and the true meaning of the Mass is taught!
(Of course, we’re of a Franciscan founding… perhaps the difference?)
If this is what is taught in your parish, you need to go to the Pastor and failing any action to obligerate this heresy being taken then call the chancery office - the Bishop needs to know provided the Pastor will not take action. Such teachings are not in communion with Rome.
I assure you, that is not what is taught in a majority of Catholic Schools and Catholic religious education courses.
Once again, I blame the parents… I’ll tell you here, this is not tolerated. I even teach my students to carefully check their hands for any visible crumbs. As for myself, my wife, and my oldest, unless we are sick, we receive on the tongue. (receiving in the hand makes my palm itch for hours!)
I would hope that not “some” but a majority of parishes are not like the one you attend.
When on vacation, the worst I run across is usually the music. The Masses usually conform to the Rubrics (sometimes the shortest forms and others Churches “pull out all the stops!”) and the congregation is/are ususually very respectfull. I even found a Church where the communion rail was used in addition to the more common pass it out method. (I’d never used a communion rail; thus, I didn’t then either; however, I watched very closely, perhaps next time :yup: )
Without genuflecting… I blame the lay minister in charge of their training and the person in charge of the key. Only a very few people have access to the key at our Church. I’ll tell you, in the Parishes in my local area, everyone genflects before opening the tabernacle, usually because a Deacon or Fr. is present while the hosts are being removed, and only the more Senior members of the EMHCs have access to the key so that they can RETURN the pix. These are usually returned to the sacrasty for purification or to be refilled during a Mass.
L
Lormar
Guest
Z, you are most fortunate.
Neither the pastor nor the bishop will do anything. The former dislikes the word “altar” to the point where if it shows up in an entrance song, he changes it to “table”. As for the latter, he would agree with how the parish is run. One of the first things he did when installed in our diocese was to change the rector in the seminary. As a result, it emptied out, and we have not had an ordination in two years.
How can the parents teach what they themselves were never taught?
As for the EMs, there is no one in charge of the key as it is left in the Tabernacle so everyone can help themselves.
Neither the pastor nor the bishop will do anything. The former dislikes the word “altar” to the point where if it shows up in an entrance song, he changes it to “table”. As for the latter, he would agree with how the parish is run. One of the first things he did when installed in our diocese was to change the rector in the seminary. As a result, it emptied out, and we have not had an ordination in two years.
How can the parents teach what they themselves were never taught?
As for the EMs, there is no one in charge of the key as it is left in the Tabernacle so everyone can help themselves.
Z
z_0101
Guest
Yes
:imsorry: :hug1:
Ahhh, and yet, the proper course of action is to let the Bishop know about the abuses. Once done, then you can appeal to the next levels with in the USSCB (which would be IMHO the best course). You can always write to the Holy Father; however, I’d only do so as a last resort.
(and my tie-in to the thread): This lack of teaching might be what allowed these teens to stray so far from their alter-sever days to placing hosts on a hamburger.
I’m a convert, so, maybe being from outside the Church, I got to see something wonderful thru the stained glass that those within no longer bother to look at.
I do know that if the parish I am in now was like the one you are in, I wouldn’t have made it thru RCIA.
I pray that a new priest will be installed in your church soon.
There was a very “dark” time in the seminaries back in the early 70’s and we’re still suffering from that lack of direction.
St. Michael the Archangel,
defend us in battle.
Be our defense against the wickedness and snares of the Devil.
May God rebuke him, we humbly pray,
and do thou,
O Prince of the heavenly hosts,
by the power of God,
thrust into hell Satan,
and all the evil spirits,
who prowl about the world
seeking the ruin of souls. Amen…
H
Hockeygurl
Guest
I agree it is inappropriate, however, I would be very careful about confronting a child unless you know the family well. I know I would be very angry if a person confronted my child without notifying me and letting me be present during the exchange.
S
SnowAngels
Guest
The boy that posted is about 18 years old, nd I am 16 right now. However, I do understand your point. I haven’t see the boy since the beginning of 2013, so I can’t talk to him. I don’t know him, and doubt he would recognize me. My parish priest seems very good with the details, and careful who he entrusts to the care of the Church. I highly doubt they were consecrated host. While I am still appalled at seeing such a thing, I don’t know if saying anything would just be beating a dead horse or not…
S
suko
Guest
Has anybody verified that the horse was dead?
But seriously, I think for something like this, I think it might be better to play it safe, just in case, considering that I don’t think anything really bad can come about from this, except possibly changing how things are handled within the church, which certainly wouldn’t be a bad thing, since we can never be too careful when we’re talking about protecting hosts (or anything within a church), consecrated or not. Perhaps if the parish priest has an email, which I think most do (and u can probably find it on their parish website or in their weekly bulletin), u can probably just forward the pics to him.
S
SnowAngels
Guest
Good point!Has anybody verified that the horse was dead?
But seriously, I think for something like this, I think it might be better to play it safe, just in case, considering that I don’t think anything really bad can come about from this, except possibly changing how things are handled within the church, which certainly wouldn’t be a bad thing, since we can never be too careful when we’re talking about protecting hosts (or anything within a church), consecrated or not. Perhaps if the parish priest has an email, which I think most do (and u can probably find it on their parish website or in their weekly bulletin), u can probably just forward the pics to him.
My priest does not have an email…in fact, he says he doesn’t even own a computer. I am not sure how to tell him…I know he will be extremely angry, and I don’t want to be the cause of animosity between the boy, his family, and the priest. What about an anonymous letter? I want him to know, but I can’t tell if I’m making a big deal out of this or not. The pictures are from over a year ago…
V
Vim71
Guest
And he may not know that this happened over a year ago or not. It still wouldn’t hurt to let him know just in case. I’m with suko on this: Play it safe.
Who knows, he might be unaware of what is going on.I would also advise when sending the pictures to make sure you have some way to prove it is the individual in question, such as screen cap of the comment they posted.
S
suko
Guest
Well, if you’d rather try to not be the cause of animosity, you can easily blot the face of the boy out using any software picture editing program like Paint, GIMP, etc… ^.^Good point!
My priest does not have an email…in fact, he says he doesn’t even own a computer. I am not sure how to tell him…I know he will be extremely angry, and I don’t want to be the cause of animosity between the boy, his family, and the priest. What about an anonymous letter? I want him to know, but I can’t tell if I’m making a big deal out of this or not. The pictures are from over a year ago…
E
esieffe
Guest
While I would never consider “traumatizing” an alter boy, this is not the first time I have seen youth in a church being casual if you will, about the faith.
Before I came Catholic, I went to a Methodist service, and the large cross, usually carried by the Crucifer in the EC was being carried in a fully horizontal position prior to the service towards the sacristy.
Though the service had not started, I thought that this was pretty disrespectful, as the church was filled with people, and the brass and wood crucifix is part of a Holy procession in the church. Catholics use the very same object in their processions.
When I was an acolyte for the EC in my father’s church, this type of casual handling would not have been tolerated. We were all schooled in appropriate behavior while attending to our duties. I spent summers at my Dad’s very large Episcopal church, and if I was even totally alone, and was passing through the chapel to other parts of the church, I bowed before the alter before proceeding to my destination, and no one was there other than me and Christ.
Putting even an un-blessed Host on a hamburger is disrespectful, as it is a vessel in wait to contain the presence of Christ. The alter boy needs educating, not punishment, but educating none-the-less. If I had my way, anyone serving in a mass, would have to apply and then be trained and educated before serving in his or her position.
:knight1:
:knight1:
Before I came Catholic, I went to a Methodist service, and the large cross, usually carried by the Crucifer in the EC was being carried in a fully horizontal position prior to the service towards the sacristy.
Though the service had not started, I thought that this was pretty disrespectful, as the church was filled with people, and the brass and wood crucifix is part of a Holy procession in the church. Catholics use the very same object in their processions.
When I was an acolyte for the EC in my father’s church, this type of casual handling would not have been tolerated. We were all schooled in appropriate behavior while attending to our duties. I spent summers at my Dad’s very large Episcopal church, and if I was even totally alone, and was passing through the chapel to other parts of the church, I bowed before the alter before proceeding to my destination, and no one was there other than me and Christ.
Putting even an un-blessed Host on a hamburger is disrespectful, as it is a vessel in wait to contain the presence of Christ. The alter boy needs educating, not punishment, but educating none-the-less. If I had my way, anyone serving in a mass, would have to apply and then be trained and educated before serving in his or her position.
:knight1:
:knight1:
Mark121359
Well-known member
Various polls show that roughly 37% of Catholics don’t even believe in the Real Presence. I heard on EWTN Radio, John Martignoni of Catholic Answers Live suggest a higher percentage than that. The lack of knowledge of today’s Catholic with regards to their faith has really become a crisis. So, given the number of Catholics who don’t believe, as much as it saddens me to say it, this really isn’t terribly shocking for me to see these types of sacrileges happen.
Peace, Mark***
- Status