A Concern About A British Airline Policy - For Chistians Only (Important)!!

[StMarkEofE]

1)The Quran doesn’t promote violence, religious leaders all over the islamic world condemn and seperate terrorists from their faith. They are in a sence excommunicated and not truly part of that faith. They defy their faith and are not acting in the way of their faith.
2)Connecting Islam and violence is bias because there are activist groups all over the world that do things and I can say there is no majority of terrorist or violent activists that are Muslim. You connect things which have no strong similarity.
3)I would say someone defying their faith’s teachings would no longer be affiliated with the faith, a Catholic who opens their own abortion center could no longr be considered a Catholic.
4)You are talking about a few radicals not a group of people, it’s like saying the Mormon’s beleifs reflect those of all the Christian faiths. That is rediculous. Radicals will always be dangerous, the Revelutionary war was started because of this ideaology, our country’s whole growth likewise, we were built from these ideaologies, yes they are dangerous. We are not at war because you can’t defeat something that is not tangeable.

How does one answer the following?

Islam. The Qur’an and Sunnah of Muhammad claim Islam’s supremacy over the world in all of its affairs: — Islam is a Complete Way of Life. This includes government, economics, religion, dietary laws, and social norms. Since Muslims believe the prophethood of Muhammad is universal, the objective of Islam is to have the entire world live in submission to Shari’a law.

It is vital to note that Islam is the only monotheistic religion that seeks to become a socio-politico-religious world dominating power. Judaism and Christianity have no scriptural basis to impose their religious laws upon the governments of the world.

Ideological conflict:

Islam is an ideology that claims divine authority in all religious, economic, and political affairs of life. So, naturally it follows that Islam would be in direct conflict with democracy, capitalism, liberalism, socialism, and all the other non-Islamic systems of government, jurisprudence, and economics.

From an Islamic perspective, the very fact that Western nations have greater freedom, wealth, and military power increases their criticism of Western societies. Islamic fundamentalists go to great length to prove that Western societies are evil, decadent, immoral, corrupt, brutal, violent, oppressive, etc. While there is immoral behavior in Western societies, they feel obliged to prove that the West is the source of all the world’s evils. This virulent criticism of the West is motivated by the desire to make Islam appear virtuous while blaming their own faults upon Western alleged oppression. The West becomes a convenient excuse for their own poverty, nepotism, bribery, corruption, immorality, lack of social progress, tyrannical and corrupt leaders, and failed Islamic ideology. Their strident criticism is an important psychological tool to keep young Muslim thinkers from evaluating objectively the faults of Muhammad’s teachings and the resultant Islamic ideology. In its own right, Shari’a law is a backward, oppressive, and discriminatory legal system.

 

[Cyber_Knight]

This is one of some most stupid actions I’ve ever heard about ‘respecting’ the muslims. Perhaps we could ask BA to hire Muslims ( for pilot, co-pilot, stewardess, etc) instead the kafirs. This is not fair at all. OFFENSIVE TEXT DELETED

 

[Myangel]

Why doesnt this thread suprise me A little off topic, I went to a public school and we always celebrated Xmas and Easter, 15 years later due to the students of that same primary school being mainly muslim they had to stop celebrating these seasons. A couple of months ago we had a huge riot between the Australians and the Australian muslims, due to that riot, one of our suburbs have decided that due to fears of another break out of violence, they will not be flying the Australian Flag on AUSTRALIA DAY, a flag by which we all live, even the Australian muslims!

 

[Ortho]

Cyber Knight:

This is one of some most stupid actions I’ve ever heard about ‘respecting’ the muslims. Perhaps we could ask BA to hire Muslims ( for pilot, co-pilot, stewardess, etc) instead the kafirs. This is not fair at all.

They get what they want in their own country. They decide there. We deside here.

 

[Cyber_Knight]

SO bring bible or wearing any cross could have posibility to convert muslims into Christianity? Is that the main point?

 

[Cyber_Knight]

Ortho:

They get what they want in their own country. They decide there. We deside here.

They? urrm… you mean you? I know where you live, dear

 

[Neverland]

Dear Ortho,

Then why moslems protested to the hijjab banning in France? It’s THEIR country.
But this is not the point I want to ponder. I want EVERYONE everywhere can get equal right.
If you know what is happening and you think its fair then your humanity sense needs to be sharpened again.

In Jesus Love

Neverland.

P.S.

Bry,

All wars are cruel. No exception for that. There are alot of Christians protests against the war - even use their voice against those who triggers the war, but at the same time, the action is not followed mutually by moslems. Everytime, the moderate moslems, while softly condemn them, then always in the end blamed other parties. You may read all the comments.

 

[BryPGuy89]

StMarkEofE:

How does one answer the following?

Islam. The Qur’an and Sunnah of Muhammad claim Islam’s supremacy over the world in all of its affairs: — Islam is a Complete Way of Life. This includes government, economics, religion, dietary laws, and social norms. Since Muslims believe the prophethood of Muhammad is universal, the objective of Islam is to have the entire world live in submission to Shari’a law.

It is vital to note that Islam is the only monotheistic religion that seeks to become a socio-politico-religious world dominating power. Judaism and Christianity have no scriptural basis to impose their religious laws upon the governments of the world.
Ideological conflict:

Islam is an ideology that claims divine authority in all religious, economic, and political affairs of life. So, naturally it follows that Islam would be in direct conflict with democracy, capitalism, liberalism, socialism, and all the other non-Islamic systems of government, jurisprudence, and economics.

From an Islamic perspective, the very fact that Western nations have greater freedom, wealth, and military power increases their criticism of Western societies. Islamic fundamentalists go to great length to prove that Western societies are evil, decadent, immoral, corrupt, brutal, violent, oppressive, etc. While there is immoral behavior in Western societies, they feel obliged to prove that the West is the source of all the world’s evils. This virulent criticism of the West is motivated by the desire to make Islam appear virtuous while blaming their own faults upon Western alleged oppression. The West becomes a convenient excuse for their own poverty, nepotism, bribery, corruption, immorality, lack of social progress, tyrannical and corrupt leaders, and failed Islamic ideology. Their strident criticism is an important psychological tool to keep young Muslim thinkers from evaluating objectively the faults of Muhammad’s teachings and the resultant Islamic ideology. In its own right, Shari’a law is a backward, oppressive, and discriminatory legal system.

Islam is a complete way of life for Muslims. It does not impose it’s religion upon others, it leaves room for others not to follow their religion. The object of Islam is not to have the world of Islam, but to live in accordance with Allah, it doesn’t have anything to do with conquering the whole world. That is like saying since we beleive Jesus is the son of God and thus universal that we need to conquer the whole world and put it under Christian law.

I would have to say I can’t see where you got world dominating power, nothing from my understanding of Islam would bach that up. Israel was run by a religious, political, social government, all those living there were to follow the laws of God or at least respect them in their behavior. So I would say that there is a scriptual bases even in Judaism and Christianity.

Ideaology:
So, there are all kinds of religions that do this. It wouldn’t be in conflict if these governments weren’t imposed upon them from the outside world, just because we beleive them to be right or just or whatever.
The Western World is far more these negative things then the Middle East that is true. In a sence the West is responsible, we could go into the last 800 yrs of history and drag all kinds of things out that could be used to blame the west for the worlds problems. As for the poverty, in what sence do you mean, the worlds leading economies are in the Middle East, nepotism ok same thing happens to wealthy families in the west, bribery is so much worse in the west, corruption is worse in the west by far( even the American people are to the point were have of the population thinks that the government is completely corrupt), you can’t say immorality what standards are you comparing to American standards or Sudans standards or the Chineses’, again it comes down to what you mean by social progress by Indian standards or American, our world is full of tyrants pharmecutical companies to paper producers to dictators, don’t even get me started on corrupt leaders that is not something that is strongest in the Middle East for sure, and I don’t see how you can say failed Islamic ideaology they could say the very same to us or to some pagan you go say this because they disagree with you.
Isn’t telling Christian children that their faith is the true faith and the others are flawed the same thing? Sometimes to keep people from turning to sinful lives there needs to be a moral oppressive government that is based on the religion, as for backward that makes me laugh they live in the desert and yet can boast better lives than most westerners, what government isn’t discrimitory and by that what do you mean against other religions women or something else?

 

[Ortho]

Cyber Knight:

They? urrm… you mean you? I know where you live, dear

I don’t think we know each other well enough for you to call me “dear.”

 

[Ortho]

Cyber Knight:

SO bring bible or wearing any cross could have posibility to convert muslims into Christianity? Is that the main point?

Saudis consider the Arabian penninsula to be sacred ground dedicated to Allah and Islam. They consider public display of symbols from other religions to be insulting to God.

Nobody there really spends much time thinking about Christianity. They just don’t care.

 

[Ortho]

Neverland:

Dear Ortho,

Then why moslems protested to the hijjab banning in France? It’s THEIR country.
But this is not the point I want to ponder. I want EVERYONE everywhere can get equal right.
If you know what is happening and you think its fair then your humanity sense needs to be sharpened again.

In Jesus Love

Neverland.

P.S.

Bry,

All wars are cruel. No exception for that. There are alot of Christians protests against the war - even use their voice against those who triggers the war, but at the same time, the action is not followed mutually by moslems. Everytime, the moderate moslems, while softly condemn them, then always in the end blamed other parties. You may read all the comments.

Muslims in France are protesting because they want their daughters to wear veils in public schools.

It’s important to know the facts before making judgements about what is fair. Otherwise one simply is judging the fairness of their fantasy.

 

[Cockney_Clive]

Well, that’s all very fine and all but, personally I would rather leave my crucifix of sentimental value (not religious, one notes) at home. Only, the religious police in Saudi bite - very hard. A good beating would be the least of it, believe me. That’s the reality.

Don’t go to Saudi at all is my advice to any practising Christians since one is not allowed to practice Christianity there so why would you want to go?

The Hijjab is not a ‘veil’ by the way but a head scarve - it covers the hair of a woman is all. France is bloody stupid to want to ban it. French political correctness gone absolutely barmy.

 

[r.gonzales]

Cockney Clive:

The Hijjab is not a ‘veil’ by the way but a head scarve - it covers the hair of a woman is all.

actually, that is a mistaken notion. the word “hijâb” means veil, cover, curtain, barrier, and in islamic terminology it refers to the entire muslim woman’s islamic dress, not just the headscarf, which is called “khimâr”.

 

[BryPGuy89]

Ortho:

Sunnis really don’t say everyone is responsible for their own thoughts and understandings. They have th Quran, hadith, and much commentary on both.

What I meant was that it is up to each individual to completely come up with their own understanding of the Quran…etc, in the sunni. There is nothing to say that extreme interpretations are mistaken or bluntly wrong.

 

[Ortho]

BryPGuy89:

What I meant was that it is up to each individual to completely come up with their own understanding of the Quran…etc, in the sunni. There is nothing to say that extreme interpretations are mistaken or bluntly wrong.

I disagree that they come up with a completely personal understanding of Quran and haddith. Observation shows us that Muslims teach the Quran and its interpretations. There are Islamic universities, scholars, and a great deal of scholarship reaching back 1,400 years.

The experience of a Mulsim learning about Islam would parallel the experience of a Christian learning about Christianity. There are teachers, parents, schools, tradition, and custom.

We see relatively consistent interpretations of the Quran and haddith all over the world. What differences we see are usually a function of local culture. For example, what is considered modest by Indonesian culture is not considered modest by Saudi culture.

 

[Neverland]

Dear Bry,

You said:
Islam is a complete way of life for Muslims. It does not impose it’s religion upon others, it leaves room for others not to follow their religion. The object of Islam is not to have the world of Islam, but to live in accordance with Allah, it doesn’t have anything to do with conquering the whole world. That is like saying since we beleive Jesus is the son of God and thus universal that we need to conquer the whole world and put it under Christian law.

Have you read Quran and Hadiths to conclude that? You are a CHRISTIAN, remember?

Dear Ortho,

you said:
Muslims in France are protesting because they want their daughters to wear veils in public schools.

It’s important to know the facts before making judgements about what is fair. Otherwise one simply is judging the fairness of their fantasy.

Well, but using your standard, it’s THEIR COUNTRY. In the middle east, as majority, Islam imposes sharia law. So why you only concern about veil than cross and bible? is it because you ar e a moslem?
In my opinion, everywhere we should be free.

You also said:
Saudis consider the Arabian penninsula to be sacred ground dedicated to Allah and Islam. They consider public display of symbols from other religions to be insulting to God.

Nobody there really spends much time thinking about Christianity. They just don’t care.

Oh, really. If they don’t think o them at all, why they BAN Christianity?

Dear Cockney,
Well, that’s all very fine and all but, personally I would rather leave my crucifix of sentimental value (not religious, one notes) at home. Only, the religious police in Saudi bite - very hard. A good beating would be the least of it, believe me. That’s the reality.

Don’t go to Saudi at all is my advice to any practising Christians since one is not allowed to practice Christianity there so why would you want to go?

The Hijjab is not a ‘veil’ by the way but a head scarve - it covers the hair of a woman is all. France is bloody stupid to want to ban it. French political correctness gone absolutely barmy.

Why? Doesn’t everyone have a right to be him/her, no matter where he/she stays, as long as he/she doesn’t harm other people?
And you failed to notice that the BAN is also for other religious attribute, unlike what happened in Saudi. And this is what is not fair, yet many people choose to ignore. Status quo, in my opinion.

In Jesus Love

Neverland

 

[Ortho]

Neverland:

Dear Bry,

You said:
Islam is a complete way of life for Muslims. It does not impose it’s religion upon others, it leaves room for others not to follow their religion. The object of Islam is not to have the world of Islam, but to live in accordance with Allah, it doesn’t have anything to do with conquering the whole world. That is like saying since we beleive Jesus is the son of God and thus universal that we need to conquer the whole world and put it under Christian law.

Have you read Quran and Hadiths to conclude that? You are a CHRISTIAN, remember?

Dear Ortho,

you said:
Muslims in France are protesting because they want their daughters to wear veils in public schools.

It’s important to know the facts before making judgements about what is fair. Otherwise one simply is judging the fairness of their fantasy.

Well, but using your standard, it’s THEIR COUNTRY. In the middle east, as majority, Islam imposes sharia law. So why you only concern about veil than cross and bible? is it because you ar e a moslem?
In my opinion, everywhere we should be free.

You also said:
Saudis consider the Arabian penninsula to be sacred ground dedicated to Allah and Islam. They consider public display of symbols from other religions to be insulting to God.

Nobody there really spends much time thinking about Christianity. They just don’t care.

Oh, really. If they don’t think o them at all, why they BAN Christianity?

Dear Cockney,
Well, that’s all very fine and all but, personally I would rather leave my crucifix of sentimental value (not religious, one notes) at home. Only, the religious police in Saudi bite - very hard. A good beating would be the least of it, believe me. That’s the reality.

Don’t go to Saudi at all is my advice to any practising Christians since one is not allowed to practice Christianity there so why would you want to go?

The Hijjab is not a ‘veil’ by the way but a head scarve - it covers the hair of a woman is all. France is bloody stupid to want to ban it. French political correctness gone absolutely barmy.

Why? Doesn’t everyone have a right to be him/her, no matter where he/she stays, as long as he/she doesn’t harm other people?
And you failed to notice that the BAN is also for other religious attribute, unlike what happened in Saudi. And this is what is not fair, yet many people choose to ignore. Status quo, in my opinion.

In Jesus Love

Neverland

We have discussed the veil and the cross/bible. I really have concern for neither, but find the various disputes over them interesting.

Saudis find Christianity boring and don’t care what Christians believe. The fact that the law allows only one religion does not mean the population finds Christianity interesting.

 

[BryPGuy89]

Ortho:

I disagree that they come up with a completely personal understanding of Quran and haddith. Observation shows us that Muslims teach the Quran and its interpretations. There are Islamic universities, scholars, and a great deal of scholarship reaching back 1,400 years.

The experience of a Mulsim learning about Islam would parallel the experience of a Christian learning about Christianity. There are teachers, parents, schools, tradition, and custom.

We see relatively consistent interpretations of the Quran and haddith all over the world. What differences we see are usually a function of local culture. For example, what is considered modest by Indonesian culture is not considered modest by Saudi culture.

I have to gisagree with you. Many peoplre in the Middle East live in villages and small cities, most don’t attend schools or universities, and few hear of the scholars, unless he was well known. In the Christian world we have very wide versions of the interpretation of the Bible and the large number of protestant churches is the perfect example. From what I have read her and and other threads, there are many differ variations of interpretation beyond the few that I know. I would have to say that Islam teachings very greatly depending on location.

 

[BryPGuy89]

Neverland:

Dear Bry,

You said:
Islam is a complete way of life for Muslims. It does not impose it’s religion upon others, it leaves room for others not to follow their religion. The object of Islam is not to have the world of Islam, but to live in accordance with Allah, it doesn’t have anything to do with conquering the whole world. That is like saying since we beleive Jesus is the son of God and thus universal that we need to conquer the whole world and put it under Christian law.

Have you read Quran and Hadiths to conclude that? You are a CHRISTIAN, remember?

I haven’t read the whole books, but have read some and have heard religious teachers of the Islam faith speak on these issues. I have come to the amount of information to comfortably say that, especially pertaining to Christians and Jews. As to me being Christian, that doesn’t prevent me from learning what I can and try to come to an understnding of other faiths.

 

[Ortho]

BryPGuy89:

I have to gisagree with you. Many peoplre in the Middle East live in villages and small cities, most don’t attend schools or universities, and few hear of the scholars, unless he was well known. In the Christian world we have very wide versions of the interpretation of the Bible and the large number of protestant churches is the perfect example. From what I have read her and and other threads, there are many differ variations of interpretation beyond the few that I know. I would have to say that Islam teachings very greatly depending on location.

The isolation that once was characteristic of some Muslim commmunities has been greatly reduced. One of the methods that has been in use is taped audio cassettes. These are made in the thousands and contain islamic sermons, commentary, and news. They find their way to even the most isolated of places.

You will also find satellite TV in many very remote places. there may be only one TV and the whole village watches it.

It’s also a mistake to think that rural means illiterate or uneducated. While many are illiterate, there are always a few who are educated. The education may be somewhat limited and concentarting on Islam, but that’s what is important to etach about Islam.

Did Christians have widely differing interpretations of the bible in the tenth century? They lived in villages and small cities. Would the same factors you attach to present day muslim villages and small cities attach to European villages one thousand years ago?

Do you really think there is widespread disagreement among Christians over the bible? It looks like bickering between different sects. What is the major disagreement among Christians about the bible?

I would not rely on what you read about Muslims on this board. Few are well informed about the actual day-to-day life in Muslim lands.