A contraception poll. Catholics only, please!

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HeWhoMsntBeNamd said:
I think the mentality of “these are the rules, therefore you must blindly follow them” is a poor mentality.
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I did not state it was a rule. It is not a rule. A rule implies something made up and changeable.

It is a moral truth. It isn’t open for debate. It isn’t a matter of choice. Authentic freedom is freedom to do the good.

I did not say we are to “blindly follow” anything. Of course we are to study the Church’s teaching. But, ultimately, we must give assent to ALL the teachings of the Church. That is not optional.
HeWhoMsntBeNamd said:
There’s a reason why the Protestant Reformation happened, and perhaps it could have been prevented if the Church was more open to honest, down-to-earth discussion.
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The Church is quite open to debate and discussion on a variety of topics in the realm of theology. Luther was engaged in many such debates. That’s what monks and university scholars did. The Church originally characterized the problem as a “squabble between moonks.” Rhetoric and debate were commonplace.

However, Luther crossed beyond those things open for debate and discussion. The Truths of the Faith are not open for debate. They are open for discussion, which brings about better understanding OF the truth. Hence the zillions of Catholic books, bible studies, etc.

This “poll” is not framed as such. It is framed as if alll “opinions” are legitimate. They are not in this case.
HeWhoMsntBeNamd said:
Besides, if our Faith can’t meet the challenge of our own intellect, then how can it stand against anything?
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Of course it can.

But, in such a discussion the question is “why is contraception a moral evil?” Not the “poll” questions above.
 
1ke said:
But, in such a discussion the question is “why is contraception a moral evil?” Not the “poll” questions above.
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Well the thing is, 1ke, I already know what the Church says about “why it’s a moral evil.”

I wanted to see how many Catholic CAF members followed this “moral truth.” The only way to do that is a poll.
 
thistle said:
Such a poll is a waste of time.

Catholics are bound by the Church teachings which have the authority of God behind them.
Any Catholic who rejects the teaching on contraception puts themselves in a state of mortal sin and therefore cannot receive Communion.
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The problem is, we have to admit that there have been church teachings in that past that lacked the authority of God. So how can we be expected to swallow whatever comes down the pipe today? Is it really all that inconceivable that many of us would have some doubts?
 
HeWhoMsntBeNamd said:
I think Martin Luther would disagree, which is probably what compelled him to nail his thesis to the door of the church in the first place. His intent was not to break up the Church, so why would he resort to doing what he did if there was an open forum for discussion?
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Because that WAS the method of discussion.

You misunderstand Luther completely if you misunderstand the posting [just like WE are posting] of the theses. Theses and propositions were posted, presented, readand then debated in the universities. This was customary, not radical. It was the bulletin board of their time.
 
HeWhoMsntBeNamd said:
I rest my case.
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No, you don’t understand the case.

Arguing about the morality of contraception is like arguing about the existence of gravity on earth.

Gravity is a fact. Whether or not to raise taxes is a matter of opinion for a poll-- there are legitimate arguments on both sides of the issue. Belief in gravity is not a matter for a poll-- there are not legitimate arguments against the belief in gravity, only nonsensical ones.

The moral evil of contraception is a truth. There are explanations, which one may or may not understand or accept, but there are not legitimate divergent opinions on the matter.
 
HeWhoMsntBeNamd said:
I think the mentality of “these are the rules, therefore you must blindly follow them” is a poor mentality.

Compared to a popular vote? You cannot change objective truth, only follow or reject it.

There’s a reason why the Protestant Reformation happened, and perhaps it could have been prevented if the Church was more open to honest, down-to-earth discussion.

**That has got nothing to do with the Protestant revolt. For Martin Luther, he was disgusted at the abuses concerning indulgences that were happening at the time, but he had problems with the Church’s teaching as well. He was declared a heretic when he refused to recant his heretical opinions. Other ‘reformers’, such as Calvin and Zwingli, outright just rejected Church doctrine for their own fallible opinions. When you have two irreconcilable belief systems, in this case Catholicism and Protestantism, ‘discussion’ will do absolutely nothing, unless it is converting one of them. **

Besides, if our Faith can’t meet the challenge of our own intellect, then how can it stand against anything?

Objective truth is Objective truth. No ‘discussion’ or ‘dialouge’ will change that.
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1ke said:
I did not state it was a rule. It is not a rule. A rule implies something made up and changeable.

It is a moral truth. It isn’t open for debate. It isn’t a matter of choice. Authentic freedom is freedom to do the good.

I did not say we are to “blindly follow” anything. Of course we are to study the Church’s teaching. But, ultimately, we must give assent to ALL the teachings of the Church. That is not optional.

The Church is quite open to debate and discussion on a variety of topics in the realm of theology. Luther was engaged in many such debates. That’s what monks and university scholars did. The Church originally characterized the problem as a “squabble between moonks.” Rhetoric and debate were commonplace.

However, Luther crossed beyond those things open for debate and discussion. The Truths of the Faith are not open for debate. They are open for discussion, which brings about better understanding OF the truth. Hence the zillions of Catholic books, bible studies, etc.
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Again, if this is such an obvious, glaring moral truth, then why is it so hard to understand?
 
BingoBoy said:
Well the thing is, 1ke, I already know what the Church says about “why it’s a moral evil.”

I wanted to see how many Catholic CAF members followed this “moral truth.” The only way to do that is a poll.
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For what purpose and to what end?

Again, such a poll seems to attempt to legitimize such “choices”.
 
1ke said:
Because that WAS the method of discussion.

You misunderstand Luther completely if you misunderstand the posting [just like WE are posting] of the theses. Theses and propositions were posted, presented, readand then debated in the universities. This was customary, not radical. It was the bulletin board of their time.
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The front door of the church was the community bulletin board?
 
BingoBoy said:
How come sooo many Catholics are blind and confused regarding this teaching specifically rather than other teachings such as abortion or saving sex for marriage?
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Well said sir. I’d also like to add the sacrament of Communion to that list.
 
LaSainte said:
The rule on contraception makes no sense to me. I see no difference between NFP and condoms. I follow this teaching because I am Catholic and wish to remain in communion with the Church. You cannot get the Eucharist elsewhere and I am afraid of hell if the Church does happen to be right about this. I can’t just get my tubes tied and then confess it because I wouldn’t really be sorry, so I could not be absolved. It sucks, but I keep praying for understanding, which I hope God will grant me someday, because it’s really hard following a teaching you don’t really believe in, especially one as hard as this.
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Your effort should be commended. You obviously have great faith to follow something you don’t understand. It is always helpful to fully understand a teaching of the church, but when we can’t we just have to leave it up to faith.
 
BingoBoy said:
How come sooo many Catholics are blind and confused regarding this teaching specifically rather than other teachings such as abortion or saving sex for marriage?
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Many Catholics, sadly, have abortions and many, many also sadly engage in premarital sex. People have to work a little harder to convince themselves that killing babies is not gravely evil. Clearly many of them do. Premarital sex and cohabitation are right up there with contraception and other moral evils.

The antitheses of these teachings are being proclaimed loudly and often on TV, in the media, by other misguided Christian groups, by the President, by the “cool” people, literally 24/7/365. And the incessant anti-child drum beating that goes on worldwide is also difficult for many to ignore. Consumerism rejects sacrifice and self-giving.

Abortion, contraception, and premarital/extramarital sex as well as consumerism the cult of “self” are all tied up together.

Certainly this culture has confused many people. And, yes, it has its genesis in the heresies of Modernism and Humanism and their love-child of moral relativism.
 
BingoBoy said:
How come sooo many Catholics are blind and confused regarding this particular teaching specifically rather than other teachings such as abortion or saving sex for marriage?

huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/14/98-percent-catholic-women-birth-control_n_849060.html
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Because, as we have discussed on other threads, lack of catechesis and training in the faith. Also, you might need to relise that they would have not polled Church-going Catholics. One in five Catholics go to Mass every Sunday on average in the West.
 
BingoBoy said:
For fun. I was curious.
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Fun? Seems like an odd form of entertainment you have here.

As I like to remind people, the kingdom of God is not a democracy. You either obey Him or you risk separating yourself from Him.

Choosing between avoiding pregnancy and going to hell should be a no-brainer, but like they say, common sense is uncommon.

God bless you!
 
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