A Contradiction?

[Miles_Mariae]

I’ll refer you to the same document that I referred DD

newadvent.org/library/docs_jp02uu.htm

JR

Thanks, but I will stick by the infallible declarations of Florence.

 

[Jeanette_L]

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us…we do agree that Jesus is God after all, right?

You’re just being plain arrogant at this point. You actually are questioning whether I believe that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh? That’s a low I would not have thought you’d go to. Why, I don’t know.

This actually is incorrect. His mercy and His justice are both infinite. They meet at the cross.

I don’t see how you can say that, since I brought it up in the first place.

I say that because you keep acting as though this is a ridiculous theory and that to have hope in it is assuming too much. This comes across loud and clear in your posts.

Of course. But did you know there is a difference between development of doctrine and evolution of doctrine? Did you know that no development can contradict a previous understanding. It can deepen it, it can not contradict it. I could quote you as easily from a multitude of Church documents on this or simply point you to the CA booklet Pillar of Fire.

Actually, what I find amazing is that folks think the Church never considered such things until 30-40 years ago. Your questions have been asked and answered. If you choose to go deeper with the Church, then you can’t go to where you contradict what she has already infallibly taught. Simple as that.

The law of non-contradiction.

Peace in Christ,

DustinsDad

You see, the Protestants use this same argument against almost all of Catholic doctrines that they disagree with, the doctrines of papal authority, the Marian doctrines, the doctrines on purgatory, the doctrines on justification, on the Communion of Saints, on transubstantiation. Are you sure you didn’t learn this all from them, it is sounding oh so familiar.

This is why I say you just don’t sound very Catholic overall. Deeper understanding can look like contradiction when it isn’t. Christ looked like a contradiction to the Jews, but he wasn’t. The new Church with the Gentiles being grafted in looked like a contradiction, but it wasn’t. That list goes on and on.

It all depends on what you want to see my friend. A conspiracy, an error or a heretic behind every door.

 

[Miles_Mariae]

I say that because you keep acting as though this is a ridiculous theory and that to have hope in it is assuming too much. This comes across loud and clear in your posts.

No, I don’t get that from his post at all. Loud and clear to his opponents, perhaps, who are quick to see fault in his posts.

 

[DustinsDad]

You’re just being plain arrogant at this point. You actually are questioning whether I believe that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh? That’s a low I would not have thought you’d go to. Why, I don’t know.

It was a rhetorical question.

I say that because you keep acting as though this is a ridiculous theory and that to have hope in it is assuming too much. This comes across loud and clear in your posts.

The theory that a last moment of life conversion is possible by a miraculous infusion of unrefused grace into the soul is not ridiculous.

The theory that that everyone outside of the Church gets a last moment of life conversion through a miraculous infusion of unrefused grace into their soul is a ridiculous theory.

The theory that a a last moment of life conversion by a miraculous infusion of unrefused grace into the soul is not necessary because the Good Lord really doesn’t care “what religion we are” is not only ridiculous - it’s heresy.

You see, the Protestants use this same argument against almost all of Catholic doctrines that they disagree with, the doctrines of papal authority, the Marian doctrines, the doctrines on purgatory, the doctrines on justification, on the Communion of Saints, on transubstantiation. Are you sure you didn’t learn this all from them…

Positive. And such can be proven logically and definatively by examining the teaching in detail throughout the ages. Not so with the arguments laid out by the enemies of tradtion - especially where the modern approach to ecumenism and EENS is concerned.

Also, the danger of twisting truth in the name of “deeper understanding” is not some paranoid traditionalist phantom menace…it’s so real in fact, that Vatican I actually dealt with it directly:

"Hence, too,that meaning of the sacred dogmas is ever to be maintained which has once been declared by holy mother church, and there must never be any abandonment of this sense under the pretext or in the name of a more profound understanding.
May understanding, knowledge and wisdom increase as ages and centuries roll along, and greatly and vigorously flourish, in each and all, in the individual and the whole church: but this only in its own proper kind, that is to say, in the same doctrine, the same sense, and the same understanding"
(piar.hu/councils/ecum20.htm#Chapter%202%20On%20revelation)

I’ve laid out elsewhere exactly how the current understanding can be reconciled with the past.

The other side, your side apprently, refuses to do so. You will accept only a erroneous unerstanding of the present - and either completely ignore the “gloomy-doomy” past, or maintain that the past has been rejected or overturned with the new. Both approaches are untenable.

DD

 

[catharina]

To dustinsdad or anyone who supports his thinking:

re this

“Quote:
Originally Posted by DustinsDad
Actually, the Jewish people are unique in that they are a race and a religion. Of course there are Jewish people who don’t practice that religion, and there are converts who are not of that race…but generally speaking…both.”

Again, I ask
by what standard do you proclaim that “truth” of yours?
Certainly it is not from Church teaching.

(That you equate a tenet of sociology with a teaching of the Church says so much about you.)

 

[SFD]

You need to answer to your conscience why are we Catholics canonizing someone who said

"It doesn’t matter if one is a Christian, Muslim, Hindu or Jew. What matters to Christ is that you are a good Christian, Muslim, Hindu or Jew. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ. The rest we leave up to God’s mercy. Our mission is to take care of Christ’s sufferings here on earth?

Was she a heretic or a saint?

JR

You can find this quote on youtube or in her writings.

Yes, that is exactly what she said and believed. It is unorthodox at best.

Mother Teresa was not speaking for the Church was she? What “authority” did she have? The same authority as Cardinal Kasper…or something less?

What other canonised saints said similar things?

SFD

 

[SFD]

Dreadfully odd, tragic even, that you would smile over that. As if ALL has been explained, all has been defined by the late 1930s. Really? Where’d ya’ read that?

Some doctrine is defined, catherina. Then it stands as defined doctrine…it cannot be changed (even by a pope) because it is infallibly true.

SFD

 

[SFD]

If Christ has chosen to save a soul at the moment of death without our being able to perceive a conversion prior to, is it not presumptuous of us to say this cannot be?

I agree. But what does the Church teach here?

God alone judges the interior. He also gave us the Catholic Church to teach us. The externals are required of us.

You are preaching indifferentism (the externals don’t matter) here, plain and simple.

SFD

 

[catharina]

Some doctrine is defined, catherina. Then it stands as defined doctrine…it cannot be changed (even by a pope) because it is infallibly true.

SFD

I see. Your acceptance of infallible doctrine stiops at the time of the death of Pius XI. So for you and yours, the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary remains untaught and undeclared.

That’s exactly what I thought you were saying. That’s very sad but not too surprising.

 

[CentralFLJames]

I want to implore each of you who are currently damaging each other and yourselves in a determined contest of will and righteousness to remember that you are all professed Christians and are not gaining yourselves any merit by inflicting hurt to The Body of Christ. We are all on the same side and serve the same Lord. The Church teachings are paramount. I am finally coming to realize for myself that more souls are won by good example than by proving through force of argument that one is correct.

Maybe take a step back and let some of this controversy and emotion rest for a day or two then come back in a spirit of peace to see what objective truth can be spoken that builds up rather than tears down the Body of Christ. There is nothing to be gained in a contest of minds and debate or through force of personal will.

James

 

[catharina]

I want to implore each of you who are currently damaging each other and yourselves in a determined contest of will and righteousness to remember that you are all professed Christians and are not gaining yourselves any merit by inflicting hurt to The Body of Christ. We are all on the same side and serve the same Lord. The Church teachings are paramount. I am finally coming to realize for myself that more souls are won by good example than by proving through force of argument that one is correct.

Maybe take a step back and let some of this controversy and emotion rest for a day or two then come back in a spirit of peace to see what objective truth can be spoken that builds up rather than tears down the Body of Christ. There is nothing to be gained in a contest of minds and debate or through force of personal will.

James

Thank you, James, and I do agree. Some who’ve posted here have histories with one another. The histories affect the present, especially when a personal story of profound loss is offered and responses are given that say “tough - too bad for you.” One almost imagines that he/she has fallen among pagans who claim the rights of “tradition” to justify harshness. Others have admitted to being outside the Church of their own volition - yet they claim too to “teach” truth.

When the history coincides with the present and threatens faith for newer and younger posters, there are those who will always speak up. Because those who have left the Church, who have declared the Chair of Peter to be vacant, will rarely admit their biases more than once, some will repeat such facts for the education of those who are at risk as they learn the Faith.

Charity and truth, together, must be presented. One would hope this can be done in the least insulting manner. Yet no matter how often others might claim I’m seen as disruptive, I have to speak truth in charity. What has often transpired in this forum, the slandering of Popes, of Saints, of Cardinals is offensive in the extreme. More offensive is casting doubt on the God of eternal love, the Author of life, the Only source of Divine Mercy.

I hope that each of us begins every day with a renewed intention of charity.

 

[stmaria]

You need to answer to your conscience why are we Catholics canonizing someone who said

"It doesn’t matter if one is a Christian, Muslim, Hindu or Jew. What matters to Christ is that you are a good Christian, Muslim, Hindu or Jew. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ. The rest we leave up to God’s mercy. Our mission is to take care of Christ’s sufferings here on earth?

Was she a heretic or a saint?

THE SYLLABUS OF ERRORS CONDEMNED BY PIUS IX

1. Every man is free to embrace and profess that religion which, guided by the light of reason, he shall consider true. – CONDEMNED
2. Man may, in the observance of any religion whatever, find the way of eternal salvation, and arrive at eternal salvation. -CONDEMNED
3. Good hope at least is to be entertained of the eternal salvation of all those who are not at all in the true Church of Christ. --CONDEMNED
4. Protestantism is nothing more than another form of the same true Christian religion, in which form it is given to please God equally as in the Catholic Church. – CONDEMNED

QUI PLURIBUS
ON FAITH AND RELIGION
ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS IX
NOVEMBER 9, 1846

1. Also perverse is the shocking theory that it makes no difference to which religion one belongs, a theory which is greatly at variance even with reason. By means of this theory, those crafty men remove all distinction between virtue and vice, truth and error, honorable and vile action. They pretend that men can gain eternal salvation by the practice of any religion, as if there could ever be any sharing between justice and iniquity, any collaboration between light and darkness, or any agreement between Christ and Belial"

Cardinal Ratzinger
“Does this mean that missionary activity must cease and be replaced by dialogue, in which we do not speak of truth, but help one another be better Christians, Jews, Moslems, Hindus, and Buddhists?** My answer is no. For this would be yet another form of the complete lack of belief**. Under the pretext of fostering the best in another, we would fail to take both ourselves and the other seriously and would end up renouncing truth.”

Cardinal Ratzinger
"You see this attitude plainly in the crisis that troubles the missionary ideal and missionary practice. If we do not point to the truth in announcing our faith, and if this truth is no longer essential for the salvation of Man, then the missions lose their meaning. In effect the conclusion has been drawn, and it has been drawn today, that in the future we need only seek that Christians should be good Christians, Moslems good Moslems, Hindus good Hindus, and so forth. If it comes to that, how are we to know when one is a ‘good’ Christian, or a ‘good’ Moslem?
The idea that all religions are – if you talk seriously – only symbols of what ultimately is incomprehensible is rapidly gaining ground in theology"

 

[catharina]

“It doesn’t matter if one is a Christian, Muslim, Hindu or Jew. What matters to Christ is that you are a good Christian, Muslim, Hindu or Jew. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ. The rest we leave up to God’s mercy. Our mission is to take care of Christ’s sufferings here on earth?”

In instructing her Sisters as to why ALL must be served, seeing Jesus in each sufferer, Mother Teresa spoke the truth: “We are all brothers and sisters in Christ. The rest we leave up to God’s mercy. Our mission is to take care of Christ’s sufferings here on earth.”

People can rip her words out of context but that alone can not make her words erroneaous.

 

[billpenn]

AMEN.

JR, how can Jews be a part of the Mystical Body without baptism?

Mystici Corporis Christi Pius XII)
" Actually only those are to be included as members of the Church who have been baptized and profess the true faith, and who have not been so unfortunate as to separate themselves from the unity of the Body, or been excluded by legitimate authority for grave faults committed. …".

HUMANI GENERIS
POPE PIUS XII
27. Some say they are not bound by the doctrine, explained in Our Encyclical Letter of a few years ago, and based on the sources of revelation, which teaches that the Mystical Body of Christ and the Roman Catholic Church are one and the same thing. Some reduce to a meaningless formula the necessity of belonging to the true Church in order to gain eternal salvation. Others finally belittle the reasonable character of the credibility of Christian faith"

St John 2 :22
“Who is a liar, but he who denieth that Jesus is the Christ? This is Antichrist, who denieth the Father, and the Son.”
Matthew 10:33 “But he that shall deny me before men, I will also deny before my Father who is in heaven”
John 3:3 “ Amen,amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God”
John 14:6 “ I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me”
.
What Church teaching says is is not “her mission to convert the Jews”?

So you believe in the Anonymous Christian theory? I beleive that the SSPX has it right on this one. They believe that Anonymous Christian “is a very grave doctrinal error because it declares personal justification as being already realized for every man without any participation of his will or free choice and, so, without any need of his conversion, faith, baptism or works. Redemption is guaranteed to all, as if sanctifying grace were ontologically present in each man just because he is man.”

 

[DustinsDad]

THE SYLLABUS OF ERRORS CONDEMNED BY PIUS IX

1. Every man is free to embrace and profess that religion which, guided by the light of reason, he shall consider true. – CONDEMNED
2. Man may, in the observance of any religion whatever, find the way of eternal salvation, and arrive at eternal salvation. -CONDEMNED
3. Good hope at least is to be entertained of the eternal salvation of all those who are not at all in the true Church of Christ. --CONDEMNED
4. Protestantism is nothing more than another form of the same true Christian religion, in which form it is given to please God equally as in the Catholic Church. – CONDEMNED

QUI PLURIBUS
ON FAITH AND RELIGION
ENCYCLICAL OF POPE PIUS IX
NOVEMBER 9, 1846

1. Also perverse is the shocking theory that it makes no difference to which religion one belongs, a theory which is greatly at variance even with reason. By means of this theory, those crafty men remove all distinction between virtue and vice, truth and error, honorable and vile action. They pretend that men can gain eternal salvation by the practice of any religion, as if there could ever be any sharing between justice and iniquity, any collaboration between light and darkness, or any agreement between Christ and Belial"

Cardinal Ratzinger
“Does this mean that missionary activity must cease and be replaced by dialogue, in which we do not speak of truth, but help one another be better Christians, Jews, Moslems, Hindus, and Buddhists?** My answer is no. For this would be yet another form of the complete lack of belief**. Under the pretext of fostering the best in another, we would fail to take both ourselves and the other seriously and would end up renouncing truth.”

Cardinal Ratzinger
"You see this attitude plainly in the crisis that troubles the missionary ideal and missionary practice. If we do not point to the truth in announcing our faith, and if this truth is no longer essential for the salvation of Man, then the missions lose their meaning. In effect the conclusion has been drawn, and it has been drawn today, that in the future we need only seek that Christians should be good Christians, Moslems good Moslems, Hindus good Hindus, and so forth. If it comes to that, how are we to know when one is a ‘good’ Christian, or a ‘good’ Moslem?
The idea that all religions are – if you talk seriously – only symbols of what ultimately is incomprehensible is rapidly gaining ground in theology"

I think these folks already know they are wrong if their teachings are actually held up to the light of 2000 years of constant Christian teaching, which is why they absolutely refuse to do so. You will not get a detailed response to a post such as the above stmaria. Don’t hold your breath. And don’t be surprised at this - what can they do with it? Nothing. Their position stands condemned by the explicit words of the Church.

They will feign shock at the notion, but the truth is, they want to change the teaching - overturn the teaching. In their minds, the Church is and was actually wrong in some of Her defined dogmas, and their goal is to “fix” Her errors. They feel they almost got there, and yet here are these dastardly “traditionalists” thwarting their plans and making them look foolish in the process. Hence the barbs, the attacks, and the utter incoherance of so many of their posts. When folks are clinging to a lost cause, and when they sense their cause is reaching the end of it’s days…as it is…they’ll get desparate…as they are.

Stand firm stmaria and let not your heart be troubled. Truth is truth.

Peace in Christ,

DustinsDad

 

[stmaria]

“It doesn’t matter if one is a Christian, Muslim, Hindu or Jew. What matters to Christ is that you are a** good **Christian, Muslim, Hindu or Jew. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ. The rest we leave up to God’s mercy. Our mission is to take care of Christ’s sufferings here on earth?”

In instructing her Sisters as to why ALL must be served, seeing Jesus in each sufferer,

Mother Teresa spoke the truth

What truth did Mother Teresa speak? That " **it doesn’t matter **if one is a Christian, Muslim, Hindu or Jew. **What matters to Christ is that you are a good **Christian, Muslim, Hindu or Jew"?

What Vicar of Christ ever said this? Only Karl Rahner and his Anonymous Christian theory taught this. Why be Catholic? Why did Christ establish His Church? If “it doesn’t matter” why was he crucified? Why did Christ say, “ I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me” if it doesn’t matter?

ON LIBERALISM AND RELIGIOUS INDIFFERENTISM
ENCYCLICAL OF POPE GREGORY XVI
AUGUST 15, 1832
. Now We consider another abundant source of the evils with which the Church is afflicted at present: indifferentism. This perverse opinion is spread on all sides by the fraud of the wicked who claim that it is possible to obtain the eternal salvation of the soul by the profession of any kind of religion, as long as morality is maintained. Surely, in so clear a matter, you will drive this deadly error far from the people committed to your care. With the admonition of the apostle that “there is one God, one faith, one baptism”[16] may those fear who contrive the notion that the safe harbor of salvation is open to persons of any religion whatever. They should consider the testimony of Christ Himself that “those who are not with Christ are against Him,” and that they disperse unhappily who do not gather with Him. Therefore “without a doubt, they will perish forever, unless they hold the Catholic faith whole and inviolate.”

Seems to me that you are accepting these new opinions that were condemned by Pope Leo XIII

“The underlying principle of these new opinions is that, in order to more easily attract those who differ from her, the Church should shape her teachings more in accord with the spirit of the age and relax some of her ancient severity and make some concessions to new opinions. Many think that these concessions should be made not only in regard to ways of living, but even in regard to doctrines which belong to the deposit of the faith. They contend that it would be opportune, in order to gain those who differ from us, to omit certain points of her teaching which are of lesser importance, and to tone down the meaning which the Church has always attached to them”

 

[Walking_Home]

I think these folks already know they are wrong if their teachings are actually held up to the light of 2000 years of constant Christian teaching, which is why they absolutely refuse to do so. You will not get a detailed response to a post such as the above stmaria. Don’t hold your breath. And don’t be surprised at this - what can they do with it? Nothing. Their position stands condemned by the explicit words of the Church.

They will feign shock at the notion, but the truth is, they want to change the teaching - overturn the teaching.** In their minds, the Church is and was actually wrong** in some of Her defined dogmas, and their goal is to “fix” Her errors. They feel they almost got there, and yet here are these dastardly “traditionalists” thwarting their plans and making them look foolish in the process. Hence the barbs, the attacks, and the utter incoherance of so many of their posts. When folks are clinging to a lost cause, and when they sense their cause is reaching the end of it’s days…as it is…they’ll get desparate…as they are.

Stand firm stmaria and let not your heart be troubled. Truth is truth.

Peace in Christ,

DustinsDad

---

That sounds like Neocatechumenal “theology” --the Church was wrong – now they are “fixing” the Church via relativism, indifferentism, separating Christ from the Chruch —to name a few among the many errors they are spreading.

 

[catharina]

What truth did Mother Teresa speak? That " **it doesn’t matter **if one is a Christian, Muslim, Hindu or Jew. **What matters to Christ is that you are a good **Christian, Muslim, Hindu or Jew"?

What Vicar of Christ ever said this? Only Karl Rahner and his Anonymous Christian theory taught this. Why be Catholic? Why did Christ establish His Church? If “it doesn’t matter” why was he crucified? Why did Christ say, “ I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me” if it doesn’t matter?

ON LIBERALISM AND RELIGIOUS INDIFFERENTISM
ENCYCLICAL OF POPE GREGORY XVI
AUGUST 15, 1832
. Now We consider another abundant source of the evils with which the Church is afflicted at present: indifferentism. This perverse opinion is spread on all sides by the fraud of the wicked who claim that it is possible to obtain the eternal salvation of the soul by the profession of any kind of religion, as long as morality is maintained. Surely, in so clear a matter, you will drive this deadly error far from the people committed to your care. With the admonition of the apostle that “there is one God, one faith, one baptism”[16] may those fear who contrive the notion that the safe harbor of salvation is open to persons of any religion whatever. They should consider the testimony of Christ Himself that “those who are not with Christ are against Him,” and that they disperse unhappily who do not gather with Him. Therefore “without a doubt, they will perish forever, unless they hold the Catholic faith whole and inviolate.”

Seems to me that you are accepting these new opinions that were condemned by Pope Leo XIII

“The underlying principle of these new opinions is that, in order to more easily attract those who differ from her, the Church should shape her teachings more in accord with the spirit of the age and relax some of her ancient severity and make some concessions to new opinions. Many think that these concessions should be made not only in regard to ways of living, but even in regard to doctrines which belong to the deposit of the faith. They contend that it would be opportune, in order to gain those who differ from us, to omit certain points of her teaching which are of lesser importance, and to tone down the meaning which the Church has always attached to them”

That you continue to take her words out of context speaks to your own needs. Complete her thought and you can see the truth of her words. (Think of the sotry of the Good Samaritan: whom are we to serve?) "“It doesn’t matter if one is a Christian, Muslim, Hindu or Jew. What matters to Christ is that you are a good Christian, Muslim, Hindu or Jew. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ. The rest we leave up to God’s mercy. Our mission is to take care of Christ’s sufferings here on earth?” In instructing her Sisters as to why ALL must be served, seeing Jesus in each sufferer, she spoke the truth.

 

[stmaria]

That you continue to take her words out of context speaks to your own needs. Complete her thought and you can see the truth of her words. (Think of the sotry of the Good Samaritan: whom are we to serve?) "“It doesn’t matter if one is a Christian, Muslim, Hindu or Jew. What matters to Christ is that you are a good Christian, Muslim, Hindu or Jew. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ. The rest we leave up to God’s mercy. Our mission is to take care of Christ’s sufferings here on earth?” In instructing her Sisters as to why ALL must be served, seeing Jesus in each sufferer, she spoke the truth.

You refuse to answer. What truth did she speak? What Vicar of Christ said that it doesn’t matter. If you are looking for agreement with your beliefs you will need to go to the non-christian forum. I am sure you will find a Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, African Voodoo, or maybe even a **good **atheist that will agree with you that it doesn’t matter to what religion you belong.

 

[CentralFLJames]

What truth did Mother Teresa speak? That " **it doesn’t matter **if one is a Christian, Muslim, Hindu or Jew. **What matters to Christ is that you are a good **Christian, Muslim, Hindu or Jew"?

What Vicar of Christ ever said this? Only Karl Rahner and his Anonymous Christian theory taught this. Why be Catholic? Why did Christ establish His Church? If “it doesn’t matter” why was he crucified? Why did Christ say, “ I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me” if it doesn’t matter?

…
Seems to me that you are accepting these new opinions that were condemned by Pope Leo XIII

“The underlying principle of these new opinions is that, in order to more easily attract those who differ from her, the Church should shape her teachings more in accord with the spirit of the age and relax some of her ancient severity and make some concessions to new opinions. Many think that these concessions should be made not only in regard to ways of living, but even in regard to doctrines which belong to the deposit of the faith. They contend that it would be opportune, in order to gain those who differ from us, to omit certain points of her teaching which are of lesser importance, and to tone down the meaning which the Church has always attached to them”

Agree that The Church has never taught a doctrine of “strength in numbers” nor a truth based on consent of majority rule. Truth is not subject to a democratic process; since a democratic process can never be trusted to vote itself a truth that will produce any hardship or self-sacrifice - especially if it can can victimize a minority class. And internal to today’s Church the minority class is sadly the small numbers of true believers who find themselves co-mingled with luke-warm Catholics and Cafeteria Catholics of every variety. In fact a democratic or majority rule sort of theology, just like the secular system, if ever permitted would more often than not guarantee mediocrity and compromise - not excellence and not true acceptable worship.

The Church survives even if only a handful of true Catholics remain to stand alone against billions of apostates - no matter if those numbers exist external to The Church or happen to be sitting right next to us in Church while sacrilegiously receiving communion in a state of grave sin.

James