A decent talk

[awalt]

Thanks. A couple of follow-ups:

1. Can you be more specific on what Jihad is?
2. Do Christians in Muslim countries therefore, have every right to practice their religion publicly, and evangelize/publicly about their religion?
3. Are Muslim countries wrong in passing and enforcing laws that prevent the rights of Christians to practice their religion?

4., If your answer to #3 is yes, do you believe your beliefs in this area are held by the majority of people holding Islamic beliefs?

1. If your answer to #3 and #4 are yes, why do you think we see so much reported persecution of Christians in Islamic-majority countries? And why doesn’t the majority condemn and fight these acts?
2. Why do more people of Islamic faith not publicly condem terrorist groups such as Al-Qaida?

Thanks for letting me ask!

 

[Nicro]

Thanks. A couple of follow-ups:

1. Can you be more specific on what Jihad is?
2. Do Christians in Muslim countries therefore, have every right to practice their religion publicly, and evangelize/publicly about their religion?
3. Are Muslim countries wrong in passing and enforcing laws that prevent the rights of Christians to practice their religion?

4., If your answer to #3 is yes, do you believe your beliefs in this area are held by the majority of people holding Islamic beliefs?

1. If your answer to #3 and #4 are yes, why do you think we see so much reported persecution of Christians in Islamic-majority countries? And why doesn’t the majority condemn and fight these acts?
2. Why do more people of Islamic faith not publicly condem terrorist groups such as Al-Qaida?

Thanks for letting me ask!

1. Can you be more specific on what Jihad is?
   Ok so the Prophet(pbuh) said there are two Jihads. The Greater and the lesser. The greater Jihad is internal. It is about overcoming your sins and coming closer to God. Lesser Jihad is the fight to defend faith and Muslims. So say a Muslim country is invaded by non Muslims everyone in that country is expected to fight the invaders and maintain independence. If that country cant do it alone other countries should help. If that still isnt enough the whole world should.
2. Do Christians in Muslim countries therefore, have every right to practice their religion publicly, and evangelize/publicly about their religion?Yes. The Quran specifically says that you cannot force religion on someone and that people of all faiths should be able to practice what they will.
3. Are Muslim countries wrong in passing and enforcing laws that prevent the rights of Christians to practice their religion?Yes.

4., If your answer to #3 is yes, do you believe your beliefs in this area are held by the majority of people holding Islamic beliefs?Possibly but probably not. If you are raised to think a certain way than thats probably how you will.

1. If your answer to #3 and #4 are yes, why do you think we see so much reported persecution of Christians in Islamic-majority countries? And why doesn’t the majority condemn and fight these acts?Alot of these persecutions are overblown and made up. But the ones that are real are wrong.The majority does condemn these acts but they are simply hard to fight.
2. Why do more people of Islamic faith not publicly condem terrorist groups such as Al-Qaida?They do. Everyone at my Masjid does. Just because people arent on TV saying they are against such things doesnt mean most are.

Thanks for letting me answer!

 

[awalt]

Thanks for your replies. If the maority of Muslims feel as you there is hope for the world.

Is it possible that by saying

Lesser Jihad is the fight to defend faith and Muslims

that radical Muslims believe anyone that is not Islamic by default is a threat, and therefore they have the right to violence? Is there any teaching as to what a “threat” really is, or when defense is truly necessary?

Also, do Islamics that believe in what you say, talk about how to change perceptions of the world about Islam, since much of what we hear and see the results of is the radical view of what “defense” means, and there is no singular head that can speak for Islam?

 

[Nicro]

Thanks for your replies. If the maority of Muslims feel as you there is hope for the world.

Is it possible that by saying

that radical Muslims believe anyone that is not Islamic by default is a threat, and therefore they have the right to violence? Is there any teaching as to what a “threat” really is, or when defense is truly necessary?

Also, do Islamics that believe in what you say, talk about how to change perceptions of the world about Islam, since much of what we hear and see the results of is the radical view of what “defense” means, and there is no singular head that can speak for Islam?

Threat would be one country invading a Muslim country. Than Jihad is declared until the invader is pushed out of the country.

Well we dont necessarily have discussions about how to change the view of Muslims. My Masjid does have interfaith walks, welcomes anyone of any faith to the Masjid just to talk, eat, watch us pray and learn. We basically just try to show that we all dont come pre equipped with bombs.

 

[awalt]

Thanks for sharing your views. I really do hope most feel as you do, and we see more rallying and support of peace in the world from the Islamic people.

 

[Nicro]

Assalam Alaykum!

No problem! Just hope I get some more questions and discussions goin on in here.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

Muslims are told according to Quran and the Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) to say to Christians, Jews ect… let us not argue and come together for we worship the same God as he revealed to you the Scrolls to Ibrahim, the tablets to Musa, the Psalms to Dawud and the Injeel to Isa so he did to us. We do worship the same God brother. The Christian Trinity does have a polytheistic element saying God is in Three people.

Another question if you dont mind? In the interest of keeping the discussion going…

Thinking about what you say about the same God and that we worship Him.

How do Christians think about God the Father

How do Muslims think about God

By that I mean the nature and character of God and how we are to Him.

 

[Tim_Kirchoff]

Do Not Condone Suicide And Klling Of Innocents Sorry^^^^

Wow, that could have been an interesting “discussion”

Anyway, I have a couple new questions:

Well, it’s really just one new one, the other one is actually an extension of another question-

1. Are Christians polytheists? According to Islam, do Christians worship multiple gods? I know I sort of asked this before, I just want to hear it directly from you.
2. What about Shariah law? Can you explain it?

 

[cascherman]

Thanks for your replies. If the ma(j)ority of Muslims feel as you there is hope for the world.

Do majority of Muslims in the world agree with you? Because if they do then like they said, it may all be okay, because most Americans in general are scared of Islam. It seems like Islamophobia may be unwarranted.

Threat would be one country invading a Muslim country. Than Jihad is declared until the invader is pushed out of the country.

Has the Islamic leadership in Iraq declared jihad in Iraq? likewise in Afghanistan?

And I will add another question. I understand that the modern idea of Islamic terrorism comes from a twisted and convoluted interpretation of the Qu’ran used to support what they do, and it is not was Islam teaches. But, what do you think about the fact that the Qu’ran can be twisted so easily due to the sometimes violent overtones, and it will then be believed by the public that the Qu’ran teaches to attack non-muslims. For example, if one was to say they attack others unwarranted in the name of Christ, anyone who has read the Bible or even been around a Christian knows this is outrageous due to the gigantic overtone in the New Testament toward love. Yes, some fail and sin but it would be very very hard to twist the New Testament to support violence.

Likewise, say a Christian interprets scripture as badly as possible, the fruits of his interpretation at worst would probably be cutting out his own eye if he looks at a woman or cutting off his own hand off if he sins. (about the most violent thing I can think of in the New Testament). What I am getting at is, at best an interpretation from the Qu’ran of the ‘violent’ verses would make lesser jihad, essentially protecting your family, but at the worst it would create what some Muslims insist it says, and tens of thousands are killed in the name of God. What do you think of the possibility to interpret the Qu’ran this way? and do you agree that it was somewhat inevitable that at some point in time the verses in the Qu’ran condoning/supporting violence would manifest into unwarranted violence without a way to refute these people interpreting it this way? (Kind of like a rampant virus (terrorism) coming from an essentially good being *(Islam) *)

Wow, sorry for the ridiculously long question, but I think if there was one question (or paragraphs) I would ask a Muslim it would be this.

Thanks twice.

 

[Nicro]

Another question if you dont mind? In the interest of keeping the discussion going…

Thinking about what you say about the same God and that we worship Him.

How do Christians think about God the Father

How do Muslims think about God

By that I mean the nature and character of God and how we are to Him.

Well I am not Christian so I cannot say how you think about God. But Muslims basically see God as Ar Rahma Nir Rahim (The Benificient, The Merciful) God has the Angels(Beings who can only do the Will of Allah and cannot sin), Jinn(Think of them as being like human but in the spiritual form) and then us humans. With God we need no intermediary between us and Him, and we pray to Allah alone for we do not associate with God. We believe we are born pure for why would God make us be born evil? We believe he is the kindest and most compassionate anything! In Islam it really is somewhat hard to go to Hell(not as in you dont have to do good things to get into Paradise but in that Islam is aimed at ease and forgiveness if you truly ask for it). If you could be a little more specific with your question it would help some.

 

[Nicro]

Wow, that could have been an interesting “discussion”

Anyway, I have a couple new questions:

Well, it’s really just one new one, the other one is actually an extension of another question-

1. Are Christians polytheists? According to Islam, do Christians worship multiple gods? I know I sort of asked this before, I just want to hear it directly from you.
2. What about Shariah law? Can you explain it?

1. Well I really cant say. The Trinity concept to me seems like Polytheism and in Islam we dont believe that Isa(Jesus) taught such things.

2.Shariah law is just Islamic law. It comes from the Prophet(pbuh) the Quran and what the majority of scholars think.

 

[Nicro]

Do majority of Muslims in the world agree with you? Because if they do then like they said, it may all be okay, because most Americans in general are scared of Islam. It seems like Islamophobia may be unwarranted.

Has the Islamic leadership in Iraq declared jihad in Iraq? likewise in Afghanistan?

And I will add another question. I understand that the modern idea of Islamic terrorism comes from a twisted and convoluted interpretation of the Qu’ran used to support what they do, and it is not was Islam teaches. But, what do you think about the fact that the Qu’ran can be twisted so easily due to the sometimes violent overtones, and it will then be believed by the public that the Qu’ran teaches to attack non-muslims. For example, if one was to say they attack others unwarranted in the name of Christ, anyone who has read the Bible or even been around a Christian knows this is outrageous due to the gigantic overtone in the New Testament toward love. Yes, some fail and sin but it would be very very hard to twist the New Testament to support violence.

Likewise, say a Christian interprets scripture as badly as possible, the fruits of his interpretation at worst would probably be cutting out his own eye if he looks at a woman or cutting off his own hand off if he sins. (about the most violent thing I can think of in the New Testament). What I am getting at is, at best an interpretation from the Qu’ran of the ‘violent’ verses would make lesser jihad, essentially protecting your family, but at the worst it would create what some Muslims insist it says, and tens of thousands are killed in the name of God. What do you think of the possibility to interpret the Qu’ran this way? and do you agree that it was somewhat inevitable that at some point in time the verses in the Qu’ran condoning/supporting violence would manifest into unwarranted violence without a way to refute these people interpreting it this way? (Kind of like a rampant virus (terrorism) coming from an essentially good being *(Islam) *)

Wow, sorry for the ridiculously long question, but I think if there was one question (or paragraphs) I would ask a Muslim it would be this.

Thanks twice.

Well it is not surprising that some twist it in such a way.Whether it be in the name of Islam or speaking against Islam. But you have to remember that those verses are speaking about those who are fighting the Muslims. Muslims were being slaughtered and the ‘violent’ verses are simply telling Muslims to fight this injustice.

 

[Jamie_Patton]

Hmmm…ya I read some things on here and alot of people seem to get very…angry when it comes to Islam. But here is a question I have for christians: why do you say Allah is a different God than the One you worship when even Jesus called God by Allah?

Does the God (Allah) you worship have a son called Jesus who sacrificed his own life so all could have life eternally and after his resurection sent the Holy Spirit to guide and strengthen us? And God (Allah), Jesus and the Holy Spirit are all one revealed in 3 seperate ways (the Holy Trinity) ? If the answer is no then that is why.

Peace,
Jamie

 

[Nicro]

Ok you kuffar kelb thanks for that little statement which totally did not advance this thread. If you wanna say something make an actual point that can be discussed instead of acting like an ignorant jerk.

 

[Alexius]

Even so, there are differences between the Allah of Islam and the God of Christianity, more than just a name difference.

Christians, for the most part, believe in the Trinity, that God is three persons (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) while remaining One God. I have heard it said that Muslims believe this is polytheism. Is that much true?

Some say it is polytheistic, or atleast influenced by pagan thought such as the Hindu Trimurti…

“O People of the Book: Do not go to extremes in your religion, or say of Allah what you ought not…Do not say Trinity: it will be better for you…Jesus, son of Mary, was [no more than] a messenger and servant/slave of Allah…” --The Qur’an

How’s that for memory? And I’m a Christian!

i think that islam is born out of judaism but is imperfect because it does not acknowledge Jesus’ claims about himself as the Messiah, the Son of God, and God incarnate.

Muslims believe that Jesus ('Isa) is the Messiah (al-Masih)whom the Jews rejected and some say he is a (figurative) son of God in terms as being a righteous messenger, but not God incarnate…

Btw…It is good to have another Muslim on these forums. I hope that you are treated with respect. Please be patient with and forgive those who do not wish to discuss in a charitable manner. I know they do not mean for you to take offense personally. We have all struggled the same way at one point or another aswell…

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius

 

[Kitty_Chan]

Well I am not Christian so I cannot say how you think about God. But Muslims basically see God as Ar Rahma Nir Rahim (The Benificient, The Merciful) God has the Angels(Beings who can only do the Will of Allah and cannot sin), Jinn(Think of them as being like human but in the spiritual form) and then us humans. With God we need no intermediary between us and Him, and we pray to Allah alone for we do not associate with God. We believe we are born pure for why would God make us be born evil? We believe he is the kindest and most compassionate anything! In Islam it really is somewhat hard to go to Hell(not as in you dont have to do good things to get into Paradise but in that Islam is aimed at ease and forgiveness if you truly ask for it). If you could be a little more specific with your question it would help some.

aww sorry Im gonna blame this headache Ive had all evening

I guess the questions in particular was how did Christians here see God the Father His nature and the other was your question.

ok see if Im following you right on the rest you said. You mentioned God (merciful) Im with you there, any other thoughts on His nature or dare I say personality? cant think of how to state that.

Angels, doing Gods will, I follow that.

Little confused on Jinn but, before thats addressed too much, Im more curious about how you interchange the word Allah and God. Is Allah separate from God? Or another name for God?

I just found your wording interesting you said

With God we need no intermediary between us and Him, and we pray to Allah alone for we do not associate with God.

Why would you pray to Allah alone and not associate with God??

Wheras I would also say I cannot associate with God as He is too Holy for the likes of me, but I can associate with Christ. So I would pray to Jesus who then speaks to God. And you would pray to Allah who then speaks to God.

Am I confused? what do I have right or wrong.?

 

[benedicter]

No the Quran teaches that people should be allowed to practice their faith. The Quran and the Prophet(pbuh) both STRESSED no compulsion in religion. Under Muslim rulers this was usually upheld.When you read the Quran and it says things like drive them out and kill them where you find them it is specifically referring to the Pagans who hunted Muslims and brutally slaughtered them. As a matter of fact Muslims and Christians got along great. It was actually the Christian King of Ethiopia who let Muslims take refuge with him.

Yes it is true the Quran teaches there is no compulsion in religion because the goal of Jihad in Islam is the subjugation and humiliation of those who are not Muslim. Islam through Sharia must be the dominant religion. The correct answer is pay jizya(tax), convert or be killed. Find me a country which is majority Islam that practices Sharia and allows Muslims to convert to another religion, or allows the same rights for Muslims as non Muslims.

 

[benedicter]

Ok you kuffar kelb thanks for that little statement which totally did not advance this thread. If you wanna say something make an actual point that can be discussed instead of acting like an ignorant jerk.

Thanks for demonstrating the point of intolerance. No one here is ‘kuffar’. Nor are they an ‘ignorant jerk’. Thank your lucky stars you have the freedom to promote your views on this Christian forum, in Malaysia, the state of Kelatan, the punishment is caning for even trying to talk Christianity to a Muslim.

 

[Valke2]

Thanks for demonstrating the point of intolerance. No one here is ‘kuffar’. Nor are they an ‘ignorant jerk’. Thank your lucky stars you have the freedom to promote your views on this Christian forum, in Malaysia, the state of Kelatan, the punishment is caning for even trying to talk Christianity to a Muslim.

you poke someone in the back long enough, eventually they’re going to turn around and slap you. This doesn’t say much about the person you poked as it does about you.

 

[Jamie_Patton]

Ok you kuffar kelb thanks for that little statement which totally did not advance this thread. If you wanna say something make an actual point that can be discussed instead of acting like an ignorant jerk.

Ignorant jerk? Kuffar kelb? I simply and right to the point aswered your question. I don’t see anything wrong with that, but thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut though. Have a great day!

Love and Peace.
Jamie