A decent talk

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THis thread had a very good run. Generally, threads about Islam degenerate into uncharitable attacks much sooner.

Anyway, here’s my question(s).

I recently read about how many muslims meditate by repeating the 99 names given to Allah. If you know, can you tell me a little about this. Is this something you practice?
 
Anyway, here’s my question(s).

I recently read about how many muslims meditate by repeating the 99 names given to Allah. If you know, can you tell me a little about this. Is this something you practice?
i dont know about the meditation stuff but i know that there was a debate as to whether the current 99 names are correct or not. I heard on TV that many names were proven unauthentic (not found in Quran or Sunna) and were substituted by other names; yet am not sure if they applied this fatwa or not since it caused anger and confusion among people.
 
My question would be : Nicro’s understanding of what happened to Jesus on the day of crucifixion. Was someone else crucified?
 
i dont know about the meditation stuff but i know that there was a debate as to whether the current 99 names are correct or not. I heard on TV that many names were proven unauthentic (not found in Quran or Sunna) and were substituted by other names; yet am not sure if they applied this fatwa or not since it caused anger and confusion among people.
I don’t think there is only one list and I don’t think Muslims believe there are only 99 names for God.
 
My question would be : Nicro’s understanding of what happened to Jesus on the day of crucifixion. Was someone else crucified?
I don’t think he’s coming back…I’m sure you know the standard answer, but I’ll post it for anyone who’s interested. Basically, you know that when Jesus was in the Garden of Gethsemane, he prayed to the Father and asked if the cup could be taken away. Muslims believe God answered this pray and took Jesus away. He then cursed Judas the Betrayer by causing him to appear like Jesus. He was then crucified by the authorities in Jesus’ place…

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius:cool:
 
I don’t think he’s coming back…I’m sure you know the standard answer, but I’ll post it for anyone who’s interested. Basically, you know that when Jesus was in the Garden of Gethsemane, he prayed to the Father and asked if the cup could be taken away. Muslims believe God answered this pray and took Jesus away. He then cursed Judas the Betrayer by causing him to appear like Jesus. He was then crucified by the authorities in Jesus’ place…

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius:cool:
This other story of Jesus is in Islam the Truth as are all the other interpretations about all the Muslim prophets from Adam. The fundamental issue here is that Islam interprets all history as Islam. Hence noone converts to Islam they revert. Moses was a Muslim, as was Abraham etc. The problem is with the Jews and Christians we should acknowledge that we are Muslims. We corrupted the texts of the Hebrew Bible and rejected the Injil that the Muslim prophet Isa (Jesus) gave the Christians and wrote our own story about him. I’m sure that Muslims would agree with this scenario as that is the reason that Allah gave through Jibril the Quran the Truth the Final Revelation to correct all the unfaithful. I have therefore a serious question and I would like a definitive answer:
Who corrupted the scriptures?, Why did they corrupt the scriptures?, When did they corrupt the scriptures?, What is your historical proof that this occurred?
 
Who corrupted the scriptures?, Why did they corrupt the scriptures?, When did they corrupt the scriptures?, What is your historical proof that this occurred?
Who corrupted the scriptures?

People. 😃 Seriously, Muslims don’t seem to have a definitive answer to this question. Some say that Paul corrupted the message of Jesus, yet others say that it was through the translations that the scripture was corrupted.

Why did they corrupt the scriptures?

Again, there is no definitive answer. Moderate Muslims would usually say that corruptions were inserted by people who did not realize their mistakes or by individuals who meant well, but were ultimately wrong. More conservative and strict Muslims would say that these scriptures were purposefully distorted by those seeking political and worldly power.

When did they corrupt the scriptures?

Same story, no single answer. It has been said that during the Babylonian captivity, certain Hebrew scriptures were destroyed and re-written by memory. During later fiascos, other manuscripts were lost and redone. It is certainly unfair to expect that the early Christians realize that Jesus had not died given the historical arguments to the contrary. How would they have known? Some Muslims would say that certain apocraphal books such as the Gospel of Barnabas (written around 150 AD), are the more accurate stories of Christ’s life with stories of childhood miracles like the clay pigeon and his fake death.

Historical proof?

There really is not a whole lot aside from a few spurious writings like Barnabas. It is mostly the Islamic presupposition that Christ did not die which controls this belief. In reality, the early Church rejected such notions as “Gnostic” due to the known truth of Jesus’ passion and resurrection. Most of the Muslim teaching here rests not on whether Christ died or not, but rather on the belief that if the Qur’an gets so many other things right, then this must be right, too.

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius:cool:
 
I don’t think there is only one list and I don’t think Muslims believe there are only 99 names for God.
am not sure whether they believe there are only 99 names or more but i was refereing to these exact 99 names in question.
 
Muslims believe God answered this pray and took Jesus away. He then cursed Judas the Betrayer by causing him to appear like Jesus. He was then crucified by the authorities in Jesus’ place…

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius:cool:
the problem is that you will find different answers from someone else being crucified (whoever it was) to no crucifixion at all to Jesus being crucified but did not die ecc.

I still have to read one rational answer that does not belittle neither human intelligence, nor history, nor God’s character.
 
Historical proof?

There really is not a whole lot aside from a few spurious writings like Barnabas. Most of the Muslim teaching here rests not on whether Christ died or not, but rather on the belief that if the Qur’an gets so many other things right, then this must be right, too.

Thanks Alexius. I felt that this was the case. In other words their subjection of other people to second class humans beings is based on ‘a conspiracy theory’. It is one thing to have beliefs in a religious sense (about God, etc) but when those beliefs directly address the rights of other people in these fundamental ways it is shocking really.
 
Thanks Alexius. I felt that this was the case. In other words their subjection of other people to second class humans beings is based on ‘a conspiracy theory’. It is one thing to have beliefs in a religious sense (about God, etc) but when those beliefs directly address the rights of other people in these fundamental ways it is shocking really.
The conclusion I came to is the one I mentioned above…
the problem is that you will find different answers from someone else being crucified (whoever it was) to no crucifixion at all to Jesus being crucified but did not die ecc.

I still have to read one rational answer that does not belittle neither human intelligence, nor history, nor God’s character.
Well, in the Qur’an it says something to the effect of “[Jesus] was neither crucified, nor did he die, and those who belief so are surely full of doubts…” I would say it is not the Christians who are full of doubts, but rather the Muslims. Christians seem to not have many discrepancies as to the truth of the Crucifixion, yet Muslims have no unified answer to the logic behind their belief.

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius:cool:
 
'Sorry about the whole kuffar kelb thing everyone. One of my pets just died and I am having a hard time. I will try to answer questions now though.
 
First, Muslims believe that Jesus was never crucified. Someone who looked like Jesus was.

second, it is easy to tell the scriptures were changed. Look at them through history. Everyone is different. They were changed by accident and on purpose.
 
About the names, Muslims believe there are 100 name but Allah kept one secret so we only know 99.
 
sorry for your pet, they are truly dear to our hearts.

If there is anything left not anwered back in my post 36 could you take a look at it??

Thanks
 
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