A decent talk

[Valke2]

Valke, on this note its my understanding (I may explain this poorly sorry if I do) but when a Priest had one sit outside of the camp for 7 days it was ceramonial but it was also practical. Then the priest would check out the person again and see if they could come back. I understand that infections and sickness takes around 7 days.

Also the cleaning of everything while cermonial was also practical. To prevent germs, which were not discovered until recentely when one looks at how long weve been here.

So something else of science written down. If this isnt correct please let me know.

Basically correct. Jewish ritual in these circumstances is focused on being “ritually clean” but had obvious health benefits as well. Many believe that the reason so many Jews were spared from Plauge was because they took more ritual baths than the rest of the Europeans.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

Basically correct. Jewish ritual in these circumstances is focused on being “ritually clean” but had obvious health benefits as well. Many believe that the reason so many Jews were spared from Plauge was because they took more ritual baths than the rest of the Europeans.

Hmm God, just full of ideas isnt He?

Im glad to have that confirmed, thanks.

 

[Nicro]

Pretty good, just a clarification;

So Allah is God as Ar Rahma Nir Rahim (The Benificient, The Merciful) is this correct?

Now, you said earlier

How can you pray to Allah alone because you do not associate with God, if they are the same?

Or was this maybe a typing mistake thats confused me??

Also, if you believe you are born pure then I take it you dont believe Adam and Eve existed??

just wondering . . . .

I meant we do not associate others with Allah. So we pray to Him alone. We do believe in Adam and Eve. They both sinned equaly no one tricked the other or anything but they both repented honestly from the heart so God forgave them. Why would we be born evil?

 

[AgnosTheist]

It clearly says the mountains move even though humans cant tell, that the universe is always expanding, that the moon is only a reflection of the suns light and that the day rolls into night and the word used for roll is the same for wrapping a turban and implies the earth is spherical and this is the cause of day and night.

please show us the verses which say each of those.

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

I meant we do not associate others with Allah. So we pray to Him alone. We do believe in Adam and Eve. They both sinned equaly no one tricked the other or anything but they both repented honestly from the heart so God forgave them. Why would we be born evil?

Good point, Nic. I hope you don’t mind my joining in the conversation.

Yes, i agree that it would make no sense for Allah to create the human race as evil. However, this is a different thing from being created with the potential for evil. Don’t you agree?

 

[Kitty_Chan]

I meant we do not associate others with Allah. So we pray to Him alone.

ok thats what I thought, just wanted to be clear.

Just so you and everyone knows Im just taking this one step at a time to see where the divide happens, Ive seen it said that God is actually the same God at the start. Dont know if it gonna go anywhere, just a thought I had if the discussion doesnt break down.

God (valke could you put a statement here if you would like)

God the Father (benedicter ? Tim? anything to add)

Allah is God as Ar Rahma Nir Rahim (The Benificient, The Merciful) (Nicro I think this is good now?)

maybe this goes nowhere, just something that seems to be understood by so many. I have a thought about it, but I need more information.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

Socrates good question

also if you want jump into the definations

 

[Socrates4Jesus]

Socrates good question

also if you want jump into the definations

Kitty: TY.

BTW: I admire your approach to this conversation.

 

[inJESUS]

In the Quran it says since Jesus was such a good man and Al Mesih(The Messiah) Allah did not let him die

. what about other prophets who were killed? they were not good men? why did Allah let them be killed?

Instead he raised Isa(Jesus) up to Paradise and someone who looked like Jesus died on the cross.

 

[inJESUS]

And I meant to say we do not associate others with Allah. So no Jesus or anyone else.

since you are Sunni and Sunni Islam teaches that the Word of Allah is uncreated and eternal, does it mean you are associating partners with Allah when you refer to his eternal and uncreated word?

We only pray to God because he is the only one who deserves praise.

 

[Alexius]

since you are Sunni and Sunni Islam teaches that the Word of Allah is uncreated and eternal, does it mean you are associating partners with Allah when you refer to his eternal and uncreated word?

 

[inJESUS]

inJESUS;2960158:

Correct me if I’m wrong, but not all schools of Sunni thought teach that the Qur’an is uncreated…

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius

there were debates within the different schools in the past but the Sunni position is what i stated and those who believed differently were called heretics and deserved death. Now i dont know to which school of thought Nicro belongs or whether the debate is still open, but this is at least the Sunni teaching.

 

[benedicter]

ok thats what I thought, just wanted to be clear.

God the Father (benedicter ? Tim? anything to add)
maybe this goes nowhere, just something that seems to be understood by so many. I have a thought about it, but I need more information.

Kitty, I think I would take your seeking for ‘the divide’ from another angle. Consider Revelation. Here is a clear divide. The Judeo-Christian God - Yahweh, Jehovah and from the Christian view Trinitarian (One God in Three - Father, Son and Holy Spirit) are personal and relational. God reveals God in personally relating to Abraham (God called and Abraham listened) God walked in the Garden with Adam and Eve. Christ walked among us. The Holy Spirit dwells in us. God want to give us the very gift of himself. God reveals personally that God is love, holy, just and desiring of saving us. God comes to man. Nicro would have a different interpretation as I understand Allah is unknowable. 2 Questions then “Can someone call himself the messenger of a non-revealing god?”, “Can someone proclaim God without knowing Him?”

 

[Tim_Kirchoff]

ok thats what I thought, just wanted to be clear.

Just so you and everyone knows Im just taking this one step at a time to see where the divide happens, Ive seen it said that God is actually the same God at the start. Dont know if it gonna go anywhere, just a thought I had if the discussion doesnt break down.

God (valke could you put a statement here if you would like)

God the Father (benedicter ? Tim? anything to add)

God the Father is the Father, God the Son is the Word made Flesh, God the Holy Spirit is the infinite love between the FAther and the Son.
This is a simple definition of the Trinity; however, God, who exists outside of the universe, does not follow the rules of our universe. To say that He is limited by our universe’s laws is to say that God has limits. Thus, it makes sense to say that God will not neccesarily make snese ot us.

More later, I have to go for now.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

Thanks thats what Im after, I may be skirting the Trinity too much. I was trying to stay at just God but maybe we cant? Its just that Ive heard thats its the same God at the beggining, just our interpertations are varied. Or what you say about relationships, I really feel thats key, some of us at at different points, thats how it can be said its still God.

Dont know just seemed people wanted to talk so just something rattling in my brain. I like what both of you said, hopefully Nicro has something similar And if Im trotting up the wrong path please stop me

 

[Tim_Kirchoff]

God the Father is the Father, God the Son is the Word made Flesh, God the Holy Spirit is the infinite love between the FAther and the Son.
This is a simple definition of the Trinity; however, God, who exists outside of the universe, does not follow the rules of our universe. To say that He is limited by our universe’s laws is to say that God has limits. Thus, it makes sense to say that God will not neccesarily make snese ot us.

More later, I have to go for now.

Like I said, I had to go suddenly. The last sentence should read: Thus, it makes sense to say that God will not make sense to us. Does that make sense?

 

[Nicro]

please show us the verses which say each of those.

Expanding universe:

47- With power did We construct heaven. Verily, We are expanding it.
51-The Dispersing, 47

Difference between sun and moon:

5- It is He who made the sun to be a radiant and the moon to be a light …
10-Jonah, 5

sun’s light is expressed by the Arabic word “ziya” (radiant) and the moon’s light is expressed by the word “noor” (light). The word “ziya” meaning radiation has the connotation of light and heat, while “noor” does not have such a connotation. Other attributes of the sun in the Quran are similes such as “seraj” (torch) or “wahhaj” (lamp). Both “seraj” and “wahhaj” emit heat and light through the fire burning within them. The fact that such attributes are not used for the light of the moon shows how refined the
style of the Quran is.

Spherical Earth:

5- He created the heavens and the earth truthfully. He rolls the night over the day, and rolls the day over the night…
39-The Throngs, 5

The Arabic word for “roll” is “yukevviru.” The word is used to depict the act of wrapping a turban around someone’s head. This word was also used in the sense of overlapping of the night and day and vice versa. The reason for the day’s turning into night and the night’s turning into day is due to the spheroid form of the earth. In this verse also we observe implied the sphericity of the world.

 

[Nicro]

. what about other prophets who were killed? they were not good men? why did Allah let them be killed?

 

[Tim_Kirchoff]

Okay, Nicro, you yourself said Mohammad was illiterate. Doesn’t this imply that the Koran was written later anyway? Does this have any implications for Islam or the Koran’s … ah, what’s the word… viability? Doesn’t it mean the Koran was exposed to opportunities for corruption?

I’m sorry, I’m not even sure what I’m saying right now…

 

[Nicro]

since you are Sunni and Sunni Islam teaches that the Word of Allah is uncreated and eternal, does it mean you are associating partners with Allah when you refer to his eternal and uncreated word?