A decent talk

[DLC]

Good. Have you come to the place in your spiritual life where you know for sure that when you that you will be in heaven with God?

DLC

 

[Nicro]

Trying but nothing is guaranteed.

 

[mark_a]

Turkey is booming and vibrant under an islamic government. economy is better, they are popular ‘‘because’’ they are islamic and people love them because they are not corrupt.

Malasya achieved its economic success under the very pro islamic Mahateer muhammed .

A short, sweet answer. Just the way I like it.

Thanks.

 

[Alisa]

It’s very nice to “meet” you, Nicro, and thank you for the reading suggestions. I think it’s time for Christians and Muslims to share ideas and friendship rather than suspicion and animosity. I appreciate this thread very much.
Alisa

 

[ralphinal]

Trying but nothing is guaranteed.

This is one aspect of Islam that I love. Everyday is a struggle. No assured salvation

 

[Philthy]

Ok so Al Quran doesnt really even need to be interpreted. It is pretty plain and simple. But, if someone did not understand a certain verse or something they would ask him to explain.

Ask whom? Muhammad or your local sheik?

This is shown through Hadiths and such.

I have no idea what a Hadith is.

And nowadays you still dont need a whole lot of “interpretation” as it is easy to get it. But if you dont understand something then you ask a sheik or scholar because they study this extensively.

This all seems pretty reasonable. One very big problem I see, however, is that there are several varieties of Islam, each with their own sheik and scholars. If various scholars can disagree on what the Quran says, how can the average muslim possibly know what the truth of the Quran is? Was there no system ever put in place by the Prophet to establish the authority to interpret the Quran?

 

[Nicro]

Well I was referring to the Prophets(pbuh) time so Muhammad.
Hadiths are the collected sayings and doings of the Prophet(pbuh).Well Islam is based on the individual, we dont have any Pope like figure that is supposed to tell us what is right and wrong. It is based solely on the individual to find out for himself.

 

[Harpazo]

Well I was referring to the Prophets(pbuh) time so Muhammad.
Hadiths are the collected sayings and doings of the Prophet(pbuh).Well Islam is based on the individual, we dont have any Pope like figure that is supposed to tell us what is right and wrong. It is based solely on the individual to find out for himself.

Isn’t that only one sect of Islam that’s like that? In Shi’a Islam isn’t it the Imams that find out for the people and have a certain infallibility?

Also, not sure if this was said earlier, but in Aramaic the word for God is “Alloho,” I’m fairly certain.

Pace e Bene
Andrew

 

[Nicro]

I dont know about the Shia thing. I consider Shia a distortion of Islam.

 

[pismopal]

Nicro
Do you prefer a United States Constitution, or Sharia law? This is an honest question that I hope you will answer from your Muslim perspective.

 

[Dennis2]

I;ve just finished a book by Robert Spencer: The Truth about Muhammad. You will learn the “good and bad” about him and his legacy he’s left for Muslim treatment of all none Muslims. It’s given me a whole new veiw of this real threat to us that’s been going on since the 600’s

Dennis

 

[Nicro]

Well Sharia law of course considering I am Muslim.

 

[Arbitro360]

How can you have a “decent” talk with Satan?

What does evil know or care about decency, except to use it for his own ends?

Listen to yourselves mewling like schoolgirls while the agents of Jihad seek to separate your heads from your necks.

The self-characterization of islam as a “Religion of Peace” is pure propaganda. It is “Taquiyya” or “a lie or deception directed at the kuffar for the purpose of propagating islam. . .” and as such, this self-characterization is a pure self-serving lie meant to confuse us westerners so as to accept more of the poison these heathen feed us through their propaganda.

Yes it is true that there are many “muslims” in the west who seek to get along, fit in and contribute and comport themselves with decency, but we must acknowledge that they do so in spite of islam, and most certainly not in accord with islam.

The mohammedans instruct, direct and command their votaries literally to “not take Christians or Jews as friends or helpers” and: Qur’an 9:123 “Believers, fight the unbelievers around you, and let them find harshness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.” among hundreds of other admonitions to “remove all impediments in the land until the religion is only for allah (i.e. islam)” By all means necessary, most definitely including violence and terror.

Mohammed himself says in Qur’an 47:4 "Thus are you commanded by Allah to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam." and also this gem; Qur’an 9:5 “When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive [enslave them], beleaguer them [torture them], and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war. But if they relent, [and become Muslims by…] performing their devotional obligations and paying the zakat tax, then open the way. Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.” The Islamic god said, “I created Islam to start fights that will kill, enslave, and torture people by way of deceptive ambush. Surrender, or I will have Muslims terrorize you.” and this; **Qur’an 9:29 “Fight those who do not believe in Allah nor the Last Day, who do not forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth (Islam), (even if they are) of the People of the Book (Christians and Jews), until they pay the Jizyah tribute tax in submission, feeling themselves subdued and brought low.” **Everything you need to know about Islam is contained in this one verse. Muslims are ordered to fight Christians and Jews until they either surrender and become Muslims or they commit financial suicide by paying the Jizyah tribute tax in submission. (Paying Muslims the “Jizyah” is not unlike giving the godfather’s goons a bribe to keep the mafia from killing you and your family.)

Anyone who says Islam is tolerant is a liar. Qur’an 9:33 “It is He Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad) with guidance and the Religion of Truth (Islam) to make it superior over all religions, even though the disbelievers detest (it).”

Bukhari:V9B87N127 "The Prophet said, ‘I have been given the keys of eloquent speech and given victory with terror.’"

You have only to read the vile, blasphemous koran and the odious hadith (if you have the stomach for it) in order to understand that islam is quite the opposite of “peaceful.” It is a call for arab supremacism, religious warfare and oppression of all other religious communities. It has always been so and has never changed since its inception in the seventh century.

Islam can never be accommodated, it can only be resisted and contained.

Long live the Christian Falange.

Organize and Resist.

 

[Arbitro360]

Turkey is booming and vibrant under an islamic government. economy is better, they are popular ‘‘because’’ they are islamic and people love them because they are not corrupt.

Malasya achieved its economic success under the very pro islamic Mahateer muhammed .

This is a transparent lie. Turkey to the extent that it is successful, is so quite IN SPITE of Islam, not because of it.

If it weren’t for Kemalism keeping a lid on the muslim crazies, turkey would be just another muslim basket case.

Malaysia likewise has had success due to the success of the secularism it imposed in the past. The success and progress of BOTH countries is actually THREATENED by Islam and certainly not impelled by it.

 

[Arbitro360]

Ok so Al Quran doesnt really even need to be interpreted. It is pretty plain and simple. But, if someone did not understand a certain verse or something they would ask him to explain. This is shown through Hadiths and such. And nowadays you still dont need a whole lot of “interpretation” as it is easy to get it. But if you dont understand something then you ask a sheik or scholar because they study this extensively.

This is another blatant lie. Anyone who has ever read the (vile) Qu’ran knows that it is an unintelligible jumble of plagiarisms and vaguely-remembered paraphrasing of stories from the old testament. Much of it is spent in describing the exquisite torments of souls in hell (mostly women) in which the pagan idol “allah” delights excruciating detail.

The order of the Suras in the Qu’ran was deliberately “scrambled” in order to serve the politcal interests of the first “Caliphs” who were essentially religious warlords on a mission to conquer the globe for islam through Jihad.

The Qu’ran is quite evidently the work of an illiterate. An illiterate madman.

It is also important to note, that Muslims have recently published more politically correct versions of the Qur’an and of the Hadith. Although they cannot fix the author’s (Muhammad/Allah’s) complete lack of moral character and intelligence, the recent renditions have sought to remove many violent verses, rewriting them to suit modern sensibilities.

Another instance of “Taquiyya,” or mendacious propaganda meant to deceive the infidels.

Do not trust Muslims. Jesus requires us to love our enemies, *not be deceived or conquered *by them.

Do the world a favor, Convert a Muslim today.

 

[Alisa]

Arbitro, I think your comments in this thread are nasty and bigoted. We’re trying to have “a decent talk” here, and you’re contributing nothing but venom. Let’s focus on our similarities as children of God rather than our differences. We need to remember we are all loved by God, Islamic people as well as Christians.
Alisa

 

[Nicro]

How can you have a “decent” talk with Satan?

What does evil know or care about decency, except to use it for his own ends?

Listen to yourselves mewling like schoolgirls while the agents of Jihad seek to separate your heads from your necks.

The self-characterization of islam as a “Religion of Peace” is pure propaganda. It is “Taquiyya” or “a lie or deception directed at the kuffar for the purpose of propagating islam. . .” and as such, this self-characterization is a pure self-serving lie meant to confuse us westerners so as to accept more of the poison these heathen feed us through their propaganda.

Yes it is true that there are many “muslims” in the west who seek to get along, fit in and contribute and comport themselves with decency, but we must acknowledge that they do so in spite of islam, and most certainly not in accord with islam.

The mohammedans instruct, direct and command their votaries literally to “not take Christians or Jews as friends or helpers” and: Qur’an 9:123 “Believers, fight the unbelievers around you, and let them find harshness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.” among hundreds of other admonitions to “remove all impediments in the land until the religion is only for allah (i.e. islam)” By all means necessary, most definitely including violence and terror.

Mohammed himself says in Qur’an 47:4 "Thus are you commanded by Allah to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam." and also this gem; Qur’an 9:5 “When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive [enslave them], beleaguer them [torture them], and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war. But if they relent, [and become Muslims by…] performing their devotional obligations and paying the zakat tax, then open the way. Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.” The Islamic god said, “I created Islam to start fights that will kill, enslave, and torture people by way of deceptive ambush. Surrender, or I will have Muslims terrorize you.” and this; **Qur’an 9:29 “Fight those who do not believe in Allah nor the Last Day, who do not forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth (Islam), (even if they are) of the People of the Book (Christians and Jews), until they pay the Jizyah tribute tax in submission, feeling themselves subdued and brought low.” **Everything you need to know about Islam is contained in this one verse. Muslims are ordered to fight Christians and Jews until they either surrender and become Muslims or they commit financial suicide by paying the Jizyah tribute tax in submission. (Paying Muslims the “Jizyah” is not unlike giving the godfather’s goons a bribe to keep the mafia from killing you and your family.)

Anyone who says Islam is tolerant is a liar. Qur’an 9:33 “It is He Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad) with guidance and the Religion of Truth (Islam) to make it superior over all religions, even though the disbelievers detest (it).”

Bukhari:V9B87N127 "The Prophet said, ‘I have been given the keys of eloquent speech and given victory with terror.’"

You have only to read the vile, blasphemous koran and the odious hadith (if you have the stomach for it) in order to understand that islam is quite the opposite of “peaceful.” It is a call for arab supremacism, religious warfare and oppression of all other religious communities. It has always been so and has never changed since its inception in the seventh century.

Islam can never be accommodated, it can only be resisted and contained.

Long live the Christian Falange.

Organize and Resist.

Hahaha you know when you take everything out of context it becomes bad. Ha nice job copying and pasting some guys little essay about how Islam is so scary.

9:123 O you who believe, fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you and let them find firmness in you. And know that Allah is with those who keep their duty.

This is referring to those who were fighting Muslims. Of course Muslims are going to fight them, if they dont they will be killed!!

(You missed quoted this one by the way) 47:4 So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, smite the necks; then, when you have overcome them, make them prisoners, and afterwards set them free as a favour or for ransom till the war lay down its burdens. That shall be so. And if Allah please, He would certainly exact retribution from them, but that He may try some of you by means of others. And those who are slain the way of Allah, He will never allow their deeds to perish.

 

[pismopal]

Nicro
I have been trying to figure out why you are looking for converts here. The message of Islam is not what Christians find attractive. We don’t want, or need, to conquer land in order to force conversions. I consider Sharia law to be a nightmare from which there is no awakening,yet you Muslims consider it desireable. You have been selling religious tolerance but Islam is not about tolerance and you certainly know that very well. Only the ignorant who believe what they are told might go for it but nobody else. If Islam is about tolerance, why are Muslims committing violence against their neighbors worldwide? I know there will be a backlash for speaking out because some people are so tolerant they even tolerate intolerance and that is the essence of Islam…intolerance of everything and everyone that disagrees with the theocracy. The truth cannot be sugarcoated. The “fruits” of Islam are out front for all to see and only the blind do not see them. You cannot sell this stuff anymore by using Taqiya or cherry picking texts from the Koran. I am not going to do the usual Muslim vs Christian ping pong with holy books…the proof is in the pudding…look at what people do, not what they say and one can have a clearer picture of the truth. Have a nice time " being decent" and selling your wares but if you want Sharia law…I’m curious why are you here?

 

[Nicro]

Whats so bad about this(47:4)? It is saying to defend yourself and family. Then it goes on to say that you should take them prisoner and not just kill all of them. And in Islam you were not allowed to sell them as slaves and you must take good care of them. And as it says"for favor or ransom", The Prophet(pbuh) would usually choose to just let them free as a favor; except on the occasions in which he would set them free once they had taught, I believe it was ten children to read.

9:5 (Again out of context) So when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters, wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. But if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor rate, leave their way free. Surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful
9:6 And if anyone of the idolaters seek thy protection, protect him till he hears the word of Allah, then convey him to his place of safety. This is because they are a people who know not.

Many think that verse 9:5 is referring to kill all idolaters around the world and anyone who isnt Muslim. But it is solely referring to the Arab tribes which had been making deals with Muslims breaking them and fighting Muslims. So it is saying enough of this, fight and drive them away.Then many think the last part of the verse(9:5) means either Islam or die, but it doesnt it is stating that if one of the people from one of the treacherous arab tribes comes to Islam he is no longer an enemy.Then 9:6 clearly states that if anybody from one of those tribes comes to them looking for protection keep them safe, showing that Muslims should be kind.

9:29(misquoted again) Fight those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which Allah and His Messenger have forbidden, nor follow the Religion of Truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

This is referring to the idolators who were fighting Muslims again. It is also making mention of the Jews who assisted the idolaters to destroy Islam, and the Roman empire who was now coming also. So it is saying again, to fight those who want to kill you until you win and show them you will not be pushed around.

9:33 He it is Who sent His Messenger with guidance and the Religion of Truth, that He may cause it to prevail over all religions, though the polytheists are averse.

And dont get what you are trying to say here. What religion doesnt say they are the True Religion?

And arab supremacy!! I am not Arab! I am Mexican/Italian, most Muslims arent arab! If you are going to make up stuff at least make it seem plausible!

 

[Nicro]

Nicro
I have been trying to figure out why you are looking for converts here. The message of Islam is not what Christians find attractive. We don’t want, or need, to conquer land in order to force conversions. I consider Sharia law to be a nightmare from which there is no awakening,yet you Muslims consider it desireable. You have been selling religious tolerance but Islam is not about tolerance and you certainly know that very well. Only the ignorant who believe what they are told might go for it but nobody else. If Islam is about tolerance, why are Muslims committing violence against their neighbors worldwide? I know there will be a backlash for speaking out because some people are so tolerant they even tolerate intolerance and that is the essence of Islam…intolerance of everything and everyone that disagrees with the theocracy. The truth cannot be sugarcoated. The “fruits” of Islam are out front for all to see and only the blind do not see them. You cannot sell this stuff anymore by using Taqiya or cherry picking texts from the Koran. I am not going to do the usual Muslim vs Christian ping pong with holy books…the proof is in the pudding…look at what people do, not what they say and one can have a clearer picture of the truth. Have a nice time " being decent" and selling your wares but if you want Sharia law…I’m curious why are you here?

Converts? I dont care if you convert it is your own life you do with it what you will! I came here to talk about Islam since so many Christians are so afraid because they dont understand it. Terrorists cannot be called good workers of Islam, when Islam forbids suicide for ANY REASON!!! Islam says everyone should have their own choice in life. Quran 2:256 **There is no compulsion in religion: the right way is clear from error. ** And Taqiyya is nothing but brutal hypocrisy that works against Islam! Why use it? I never have and never will.