A Difference of 7 Books

[JonNC]

JonNC represents his faith very well here.

Anna

Thank you, Anna.

Jon

 

[po18guy]

Indeed and a good observation.Furthermore, what many forget is that Jesus and many Jews during his life time were quoting from other sources. And why? One big reason is because the Jews did not have “fixed” canon per se stating only an “x” amount of books were considered scripture.

Truth was recognized as truth. In any event, a “Christian canon” would be needed for a new and eternal covenant. That which, in the old covenant, pointed to the new covenant had to be be retained. So, why would anyone then, especially more than a millennium later, go to those who missed - indeed rejected - the new covenant that was hidden in the old? As to motives, other than outright rejection of the Church (which was the raison d’etre of the “reform”), what other reason could there be? If the Church had failed; had fallen into apostasy; if the gates of hell had prevailed - even regarding the canon (which directly reflects on the Church’s ability to retain and transmit the Word), why believe in the faith at all? Christ was rendered a liar if His Church had failed.

There is one conspiracy that I know to be true: the evil one’s hatred of all that is good and true and holy. He never sleeps and he never ceases in his attack on the only part of Christ that is accessible to him: the Church. The devil saw that the Church could not be manipulated as to doctrinal truth. Ah, but he remembered that words can be twisted. And, who was it that first twisted the spoken word of God? Genesis 3:1-15. Who was it who later twisted the written word in his temptation of Jesus? (Matthew 4:1-11, Luke 4:1-13). Jesus ascended, but His Church remains. Find a way to cause rejection of the Church, and the written word is yours!

At a basic, motivational level, I see little difference between the reformation and restoration movements, since both rejected the Church. While some remained close - a few very close, many others fell to the leadership of passing spirits. First, we had the rejection of God’s authority by our earliest parents. This was followed by the subsequent rejection of God’s covenants by His chosen people. More recently, we have the rejection of Jesus Himself by God’s chosen people. Following this, we have the rejection of His Church by God’s adopted people.

Being a ‘big picture’ type, I see the demonic in this gradual process, remembering that evil exists outside of time.

 

[Nicea325]

Truth was recognized as truth. In any event, a “Christian canon” would be needed for a new and eternal covenant. That which, in the old covenant, pointed to the new covenant had to be be retained. So, why would anyone then, especially more than a millennium later, go to those who missed - indeed rejected - the new covenant that was hidden in the old? As to motives, other than outright rejection of the Church (which was the raison d’etre of the “reform”), what other reason could there be? If the Church had failed; had fallen into apostasy; if the gates of hell had prevailed - even regarding the canon (which directly reflects on the Church’s ability to retain and transmit the Word), why believe in the faith at all? Christ was rendered a liar if His Church had failed.

There is one conspiracy that I know to be true: the evil one’s hatred of all that is good and true and holy. He never sleeps and he never ceases in his attack on the only part of Christ that is accessible to him: the Church. The devil saw that the Church could not be manipulated as to doctrinal truth. Ah, but he remembered that words can be twisted. And, who was it that first twisted the spoken word of God? Genesis 3:1-15. Who was it who later twisted the written word in his temptation of Jesus? (Matthew 4:1-11, Luke 4:1-13). Jesus ascended, but His Church remains. Find a way to cause rejection of the Church, and the written word is yours!

At a basic, motivational level, I see little difference between the reformation and restoration movements, since both rejected the Church. While some remained close - a few very close, many others fell to the leadership of passing spirits. First, we had the rejection of God’s authority by our earliest parents. This was followed by the subsequent rejection of God’s covenants by His chosen people. More recently, we have the rejection of Jesus Himself by God’s chosen people. Following this, we have the rejection of His Church by God’s adopted people.

Being a ‘big picture’ type, I see the demonic in this gradual process, remembering that evil exists outside of time.

 

[Portrait]

4.The Jamnia School Was Very Anti-Christian: While we can’t say that the Jamnia rabbinical school ever produced a Biblical canon, we can point to a major contribution of the school. It produced an ugly prayer called the Birkat haMinim, which cursed the Christians as sectarians, and prayed to God that for these “sectarians,” “let there be no hope, and may all the evil in an instant be destroyed and all Thy enemies be cut down swiftly; and the evil ones uproot and break and destroy and humble soon in our days. Blessed art You, LORD, who breaks down enemies and humbles sinners.” This prayer was to be prayed every Sabbath, and it forced the Jewish Christians to stop worshiping with the non-Christian Jews in synagogue.

Dear pablope,

Cordial greetings and a very good day. Thankyou for the above. Jolly well said.

As I understand it the Christians had been officially excomunicated from the Synagogue in 85 AD. Some fifteen years later the Pharisees were still undecided regarding their canon of Scripture and separated from the Christian community and excluding it from all their decision making. Thus why should we, as our Protestant brethren are want to do, look to them as a source of authority respecting the contents of the canon? Our Lord had prophesied that the Kingdom of God, and with it His authority, would be taken from Israel and given to the new ‘Israel of God’, that is to say the Catholic Church of Christ. It would now fall to the Catholic Church to decide as to what comprised of the canon of Sacred Scripture, and this is precisely what happened.

Whilst it is perfectly true that the Jews were originally trusted with the ‘oracles of God’, that does not equate to being delivered a closed canon of the O.T., which is what many Protestants tacitly assume. Moreover, St. Paul tells us that whilst the Jews were indeed God’s chosen people, they were not particularly reliable sources of knowledge for Christians to place reliance upon (cf. Rom. 10: 1-3); Rom. 11: 25). Therefore there is no good reason whatsoever why we Christians should defer to a group of anti-Christians Jews at a non-binding Council in Jamnia. There is no valid reason, moreover, why the Jews should be accepted as God’s mouthpiece for determining the O.T. canon of Scripture. The entire argument respecting the Jews being the custodians of the O.T. Scriptures is, in any case, wholly irrelevant, given their rejection of the Messiah, even our Blessed Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ. Indeed the Jews ceased being the chosen people in 70 AD when their temple was destroyed and they were scattered over the face of the earth, otherwise we would still all be Jewish.

There is no valid or cogent reason for Christians to accept any determination of the O.T. canon by the Jews; we are not the “One, Holy, Catholic and Jewish Church”, we are the “One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church”, established by Christ upon St. Peter. If the Apostles entertained no qualms about using the Septuagint and the wider canon, then neither should Christians entertain any qualms about using the septuagint and wider canon of the O.T.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax