A different hand-holding tale

[pray4peace]

Most people I talk to don’t know that we are not suppose to hold hands during the “Our Father”. I did not know that we are not suppose to hold hands either until I joined CF.

I think people have the best intentions, and since it is not banned, then I will do it out of kindness and love of neighbor. I wonder what Jesus thinks when we hurt someones feelings and ignore our neighbor?

 

[irisheyes66]

Watch Mass on EWTN. Watch Mass from the Vatican. Tell me how many people you see holding hands.

Too many people seem to think that Mass is about them and their “community”. They are sadly missing the real reason for and meaning of Mass.

It saddens me that laypersons feel comfortable adding components to Mass because it makes them feel better. I also saddens me that the Church won’t do the right thing and speak out on this topic (and many others) in fear of pushing people away.

At the end of the day, I don’t lose much sleep over this issue but it does get a little annoying to see that more and more people think that hand holding is the way to pray the Lord’s Prayer.

 

[Jimsdun]

I am neutral on hand-holding, and would only change that position if the Church officially banned it (which I don’t think it has and if it did, please, someone correct me). If someone reaches for my hand, in Christian charity I offer it. If someone does not, I take no offense and also in Christian charity give to that person the freedom of their desired prayer position.

But what amuses me about so many rabid anti-hand-holding posts that I have read in so many threads and forums is this:

What part of OUR Father don’t we understand???

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*“I wish that my heart could beat, that I could live and breathe only for Jesus, I wish that my tongue could utter no other name than that of Jesus; that my eye could see only Jesus; that my pen could write only about Jesus, and that my thoughts could soar to nothing but Jesus. I have often wondered where on earth there might be something on which I could center my love. But neither on earth nor in heaven do I find any such thing but only my beloved Jesus… I am the fruit of your passion, Jesus, born of your wounds. O Jesus, seek me in love; I no longer possess anything; you have stolen my heart…” *- St. Gemma Galgani

Probably the reason that most of object to hand-holding is that is what some already have mentioned: That it brings the level of worship down to the level of community i.e. “Jesus and mee” and it is a liturgical abuse as far as some of us are concerned. A lot of parishes have become to concilatory with Protestants. Sometimes changing the Order of the mass to be more palatable to them. You know what this could lead to.

It wouldn’t surprise me if some of them replace the “sign of the cross” with the “One Way” sign (practiced by Jesus Freaks in the 1970s)

 

[Newzie52]

I am neutral on hand-holding, and would only change that position if the Church officially banned it (which I don’t think it has and if it did, please, someone correct me). If someone reaches for my hand, in Christian charity I offer it. If someone does not, I take no offense and also in Christian charity give to that person the freedom of their desired prayer position.

But what amuses me about so many rabid anti-hand-holding posts that I have read in so many threads and forums is this:

What part of OUR Father don’t we understand???

:clapping:

I agree completely with you. While I can understand some people being uncomfortable with hand-holding (I generally do it with my family members only, but would never refuse someone who offers their hand) I am appalled when I hear things like “I tried to sit as far away from anyone as I could.” There’s something very disturbing to me about that.

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Probably the reason that most of object to hand-holding is that is what some already have mentioned: That it brings the level of worship down to the level of community i.e. “Jesus and mee” and it is a liturgical abuse as far as some of us are concerned.

IMNSHO, nothing sends the “Jesus and me” message more clearly than refusing to hold hands so one can be “alone with God” while praying the Our Father.

 

[GemmaRose]

The fundamental error here IS the “Jesus and me” syndrome.

**Church is not “Jesus and me.”

Mass is not “Jesus and me.”**

Must I repeat, the prayer is “Our Father,” not “My Father.”

Jesus prayed in John 17:11, “And now I will no longer be in the world, but they are in the world, while I am coming to you. Holy Father, keep them in your name that you have given me, so that they may be one just as we are.”

Again in verses 20-23: “(20) I pray not only for them, but also for those who will believe in me through their word [that’s us], (21) so that they may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me. (22) And I have given them the glory you gave me, so that they may be one, as we are one, (23) I in them and you in me, that they may be brought to perfection as one, that the world may know that you sent me, and that you loved them even as you loved me.”

The following are some appropriate “Jesus and me” times:

After receiving Holy Communion.
At the Adoration Chapel.
In the car.
On a long bus, plane or train ride.
At home.
Etc.

Matthew 6:6 - “But when you pray, go to your inner room, close the door, and pray to your Father in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will repay you.”

---

*“I wish that my heart could beat, that I could live and breathe only for Jesus, I wish that my tongue could utter no other name than that of Jesus; that my eye could see only Jesus; that my pen could write only about Jesus, and that my thoughts could soar to nothing but Jesus. I have often wondered where on earth there might be something on which I could center my love. But neither on earth nor in heaven do I find any such thing but only my beloved Jesus… I am the fruit of your passion, Jesus, born of your wounds. O Jesus, seek me in love; I no longer possess anything; you have stolen my heart…” *- St. Gemma Galgani

 

[catholic79]

One of the reasons I love daily mass is that there are only 15 or so people in the church. And my DH isn’t there, sometimes I just want to be alone with my thoughts and thanksgiving during mass.

We are together as a community even when we are not seated next to each other or not holding hands or in the same parish. My wanting to focus on the mass and not be distracted by those around me doesn’t mean I think God is “My” Father and not “Our” Father. I can’t hold hands with everyone anyway and this does not make God any more or less “this pews” Father then that pews or “this parishes” Father then that parishes.

 

[fnz2thrght]

I’m one who doesn’t like hand holding. I was always brought up that we’re not to be showy about ourselves in mass, that we’re to be humble and meek. To me, hand holding is showy.

And instead of focusing on the prayer you’re saying, you’re focusing on whether or not the hand you’re holding has just been sneezed into.

 

[musicgal4jesus]

I’m not a fan of hand-holding, but I won’t refuse to do it if some cute elderly lady comes up with her hand extended. I mean, a little personal discomfort is better than being completely un-charitable!
That said, I wish the practice was more actively discouraged.

 

[kujayhawk]

As stated several times: the prayer is “Our Father,” not “My Father.”

It sure is. It is also “our” country,“our” city, our “alma mater”, but I have never observed anyone holding hands to express and/or reinforce that concept.

Are we in a hand holding society? In “our family” we do not hold hands to remember that we are a family. Please, all of you who do hold hands within your families to express your unity, you don’t have to respond to this. But, I doubt seriously that “our family” is unique in this.

At Kansas State University sporting events when they sing their “fight song” the following words are part of it. “…faithful to OUR colors, we will always be…” and nobody holds hands then nor during their Alma Mater (different from the fight song).

As for being united in the faith, which is true, why not hold hands during the Creed? “WE BELIEVE…”

As for thinking that all who do not like to hold hands during the Our Father are of the Jesus and I mentality, how about just leaving that judgement up to God???

 

[THurifer2]

As stated several times: the prayer is "Our Father," not “My Father.”

It sure is. It is also “our” country,“our” city, our “alma mater”, but I have never observed anyone holding hands to express and/or reinforce that concept.

Are we in a hand holding society? In “our family” we do not hold hands to remember that we are a family. Please, all of you who do hold hands within your families to express your unity, you don’t have to respond to this. But, I doubt seriously that “our family” is unique in this.

At Kansas State University sporting events when they sing their “fight song” the following words are part of it. “…faithful to OUR colors, we will always be…” and nobody holds hands then nor during their Alma Mater (different from the fight song).

As for being united in the faith, which is true, why not hold hands during the Creed? ** “WE BELIEVE…” **

As for thinking that all who do not like to hold hands during the Our Father are of the Jesus and I mentality, how about just leaving that judgement up to God???

the words bolded in Red are reasons why we are going to get a more ACCURATE translation. Say both those in latin. The Credo…doesn’t have the world WE in it…because its not supposed to be there.

Your points alone give reasn why there is dire need for the approved translations…When they come you will lose the WE of the creed…it will be changed to I believe which is the correct text.

JPII in Ecclesia De Eucharistia stated that the mass has taken on far to communal nature to it. It is not a fraternal banquet. JP IIs words not mine.

 

[kujayhawk]

replying to THurifer2

As for being united in the faith, which is true, why not hold hands during the Creed? “WE BELIEVE…” (which I wrote in an earlier post)

posted by THurifer2:
the words bolded in Red are reasons why we are going to get a more ACCURATE translation. Say both those in latin. The Credo…doesn’t have the world WE in it…because its not supposed to be there.

Yes, I know full well that Credo means I believe (10 hrs. of college Latin, plus growing up with the Latin Mass etc.). I also think that anyone who has some knowledge of either Latin or the related romantic languages recognizes this as well.

But, for now at least, we ARE saying “We believe”, and even though it is an inaccurate translation, that is what we are saying during the Mass at this time. So we think, “I believe” while we are saying “We believe”? I doubt it. I would be more inclined to think that most interpret this as a group statement. This is OUR belief and this is why WE are here, together, at this Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

irisheyes

Too many people seem to think that Mass is about them and their “community”.

Well in the phrase, Holy Communion, “communion” comes from community. In fact, receiving Holy Communion is what unites us as a community.

Mass is about worship, but its also for us. Jesus gave us this gift, and sought that we would share it in union with each other.

Holding hands doesn’t bother me and I’ll not reject a kind hand who reaches out to me. If the community is holding hands, I will reach out to the person, next to me. If that person refuses, fine, I understand.

However, I think people make too big of an issue out of it, one way or the other.

Jim

 

[pray4peace]

Yes, holding hands at the “Our Father” is a sign of unity, showing that the community of faith is asking as one body for His kingdom come. We worship together which is beautiful.
I don’t have a problem with holding hands, been doing it for years in our church and all the one’s I have ever attended. There is nothing right or wrong with holding hands, and one does not have to do it if they don’t want to.

 

[sawman]

That’s great to hear! The more I am on these boards, the more I am in the company of people who agree to the non-hand holding. However, when I attend Mass I usually find something different! It’s a little confusing.

But I guess that’s how the “sheep” lead the pastors back…one (in this case, two!) sheep at a time…

Tell me, at the Mass, was there hand-holding, or were you two the only ones who kept with the rubrics?

I don’t cotton tohand hold ing during the Our Father either.It took a while to find out that it is not in the rubrics no thanks to any ordained folks in the parish,no offence.My parish has a number of quirks of this nature that are a part of our mass. I’ve also noticed departures from the GIRM with various actions during mass as well.I don’t want to get started on a rant,well maybe too late.Sorry all.

 

[MrS]

As stated several times: the prayer is “Our Father,” not “My Father.”

It sure is. It is also “our” country,“our” city, our “alma mater”, but I have never observed anyone holding hands to express and/or reinforce that concept.

Are we in a hand holding society? In “our family” we do not hold hands to remember that we are a family. Please, all of you who do hold hands within your families to express your unity, you don’t have to respond to this. But, I doubt seriously that “our family” is unique in this.

At Kansas State University sporting events when they sing their “fight song” the following words are part of it. “…faithful to OUR colors, we will always be…” and nobody holds hands then nor during their Alma Mater (different from the fight song).

As for being united in the faith, which is true, why not hold hands during the Creed? "WE BELIEVE…"

As for thinking that all who do not like to hold hands during the Our Father are of the Jesus and I mentality, how about just leaving that judgement up to God???

Good points all… until the part I made red.

The Creed is another spot where the “new” meaning has weakened the Liturgy.

This prayer is the CREDO,

After praying Laudamus, Glorificamus, Adoramus… WE praise, WE glorify, WE adore… we reach the CREDO… and that is only I BELIEVE, not we. It is the time for us to express our own personal strength of faith to God. After coming to Him as a people…WE, … we now come to Him as a person I.

However, we have tossed the Latin. And in doing so, we have tossed, and lost, the sense of theology we had before the changes.

THANKFULLY, TIME AND COMMON SENSE IS GOING TO PREVAIL… AND THE CREDO WILL SOON BE AGAIN TRANSLATED TO I BELEIVE.

Undoubtedly, it will upset some hand holders. Tough!

.

 

[AngelicDoctor]

I clasp my hands at my chest
bow my head
and close my eyes (also a quick prayer - please God I just wnat to be alone with you)

also brace myself if some one try to grab my hands and consider it as a sacrifice, an exercise in humility.

so far, only a little girl did grabbed my hand.
when I open my eyes and see her angelic face, every thing seems all right

Yes, I clasp my hands at my chest–near my heart, bow my head, and close my eyes as well. The closed eyes are key. That way, you are blissfully ignorant if someone tries to look at you and search you out for the hand holding. I just go into my own little invisible prayer cocoon. On only a couple of occasions has someone forcefully grabbed my hand or arm. The entire church save 1 or 2 others hold hands. I do not mean to be rude, but holding hands is not part of the mass and it is a disruption and distraction to me while I am trying to pray the mass. After a while, I think people begin to realize you are not a hand holder, and they are fine with that. The pastor would never correct this unauthorized liturgical outgrowth, seeing as how only 2 or 3 people choose not to hand hold.

 

[kujayhawk]

Responding to MrS who stated:

]As for being united in the faith, which is true, why not hold hands during the Creed? "WE BELIEVE…

(from my earlier post)

MrS stated: “Good points all… until the part I made red.”

Sorry that I was misunderstood. I was not advocating holding hands during the Creed. I was simply being a bit sarcastic about holding hands when using the possessive and/or plural pronouns, our and we. Although, as I said earlier, to use we at the Creed is,indeed, a bad translation, but it is what we use at the present time!

No, I am not a hand holding Catholic. Yes, I do hold hands when I am at a church where that is the custom. According to the old saying, “When in Rome, do as the Romans do”.

 

[MrS]

Sorry that I was misunderstood. I was not advocating holding hands during the Creed. I was simply being a bit sarcastic about holding hands when using the possessive and/or plural pronouns, our and we.

According to the old saying, “When in Rome, do as the Romans do”.

sorry I missed it. Among all the things I love, I count some sarcasm among them.

When it Rome,do as the Bishop of Rome does…

When not in Rome, do as the Bishop of Rome does…

.

 

[irisheyes66]

irisheyes

Well in the phrase, Holy Communion, “communion” comes from community. In fact, receiving Holy Communion is what unites us as a community.

You sound like you’re on our side.

But you are precisely correct. Our communion is in the reception of the Holy Communion, not the Lord’s Prayer.