A fallen-away Catholic wants to go to Mass with me

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The question I have is, what do I say about Communion? I don’t know if he can have Jesus or not anymore. I know, even if he says he has done something that would be seriously sinful, it still might not be a mortal sin in his case.

Also, if someone says something bad about the Virgin Mary, what is best to do? One of the other foreigners, where I’m at, snickered about the idea of her being a virgin. I could not think of the best way to counter it. Using sharp words like “sophmoric”, which seems to be the mind of many expats, including me (but in a conservative context in my case) might show a bad example to those who think any devout Christian is a reactionary-type. I’m never sure, because it could result in more saying of seriously sinful matter if the person is an angry person. What if there is an underlying thorn in his soul or intellect that will be driven in further by a scornful or even phlegmatic philosophical rebuke that shows some lack of understanding? Still, people might respect defending the Faith, subconsciously. I think they know I’m an orthodox Catholic.

Maybe I’m just a bookworm who’s really a wimp when the Faith is challenged, but I do feel a fight inside me between whether to rebuke or avoid the person putting their foot further in hell (even our indult traditional priest told us not to remind the likely too hard-hearted about their actions being seriously sinful as he/she would then definitely have full-knowledge). I am scrupulous and wonder if it’s even a bad idea to set someone straight who thinks with possible hidden anger or their sexuality. Does it really matter for them as it would for a concerned or interested confused Catholic or firebrand Evangelical?

What would G.K. Chesterton do?
Please do tell about this and/or the first question! Thank you!
Phil

BTW Should I bring up the argument about Mary’s virginity again as a misconception about the brother of Jesus hoax?
 
foolishmortal said:
The question I have is, what do I say about Communion? I don’t know if he can have Jesus or not anymore. I know, even if he says he has done something that would be seriously sinful, it still might not be a mortal sin in his case.
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If he has not been attending Mass, he should not receive communion.

How about inviting him to go to confession with you before Mass?

God Bless
 
If he is interested in attending Mass, maybe God is dealing with his heart.
I agree…invited him to confession. If he doesn’t go remind him of the Church’s stand on the reception of the Body and Blood.
Remember that the Church isn’t a hotel for saints…but a hospital for sinners.
The CHURCH is HOLY… IMHO, we are not yet but on a journey!

PEACE
 
If he hasn’t been attending Mass and he knew that by not attending it was a mortal sin, then he shouldn’t receive communion. However, you have to be careful on issues like this. You may suggest that he talk to the priest before he takes communion and leave it at that.
 
What would Jesus do?
That’s the only essential question.

Let’s look in Scripture… Wow I just found the right passage:

“Whomever comes to Me, I will never turn away” Says Jesus…

Thats our Lord… Halleluja… Tell your friend about the grace of confession… tell him or her about times where you havent received the Eucharist because you were not washed clean in the washing mashine… tell it in a casual way… However… know that Jesus knows His own when they come to Him… and the one who is repentant and believes in Him with Love has already been washed from the essential spots of sin… confession is good but its what comes before that is most essential… I talk about the tears and the love…
 
GraceDK said:
What would Jesus do?
That’s the only essential question.

Let’s look in Scripture… Wow I just found the right passage:

“Whomever comes to Me, I will never turn away” Says Jesus…

Thats our Lord… Halleluja… Tell your friend about the grace of confession… tell him or her about times where you havent received the Eucharist because you were not washed clean in the washing mashine… tell it in a casual way… However… know that Jesus knows His own when they come to Him… and the one who is repentant and believes in Him with Love has already been washed from the essential spots of sin… confession is good but its what comes before that is most essential… I talk about the tears and the love…
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That was what I was trying to say… Thanks for putting in in words SO much better!
Hugs
 
GraceDK said:
What would Jesus do?
That’s the only essential question.

Let’s look in Scripture… Wow I just found the right passage:

“Whomever comes to Me, I will never turn away” Says Jesus…

Thats our Lord… Halleluja… Tell your friend about the grace of confession… tell him or her about times where you havent received the Eucharist because you were not washed clean in the washing mashine… tell it in a casual way… However… know that Jesus knows His own when they come to Him… and the one who is repentant and believes in Him with Love has already been washed from the essential spots of sin… confession is good but its what comes before that is most essential… I talk about the tears and the love…
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Well said!

I agree, be casual. Say, “Hey I was going to go to confession before Mass, would you like to join me.” Offer, don’t push.

God Bless
 
thanks guys… I was afraid you’d all tell me I was a bad Catholic for saying what I said… and I just dont need that right now.
 
To me it is a really tough call, I never call attention to anyone elses behavior or point out anyone elses sin. I have no idea what they are thinking or what they believe. Remember that for a sin to be mortal, the sinner must know that the sin is mortal (and he must deliberately do it anyway. IF the fallen away Catholic truly believes that not attending mass is not a mortal sin then it appears (by the definition of a mortal sin) that he has not commited a mortal sin.

PLUS they may not believe that they are a fallen away Catholic. By our measure (and by what we are normally taught by the Church) they appear to be fallen away. But if they truly believe that they are within the bounds of their faith are they still committing a mortal sin ?

I’ve even heard a priest say that to him missing a mass now and then was not a mortal sin. His opinion was that a mortal sin was a complete separation and turning away from God and missing one mass did not fall into that category. This becomes a very slippery slope and I for one would not rely on such a liberal interpretation. I certainly would not stake my eternal destiny on such a view.
 
Thanks everyone! I just said G. K. Chesterton, but it could have been Fr. Faber. G.K. was an Anglican before he became a Catholic and wrote that book about common sense. He probably knew his faith and would have a clever answer. Jesus’s words are important, but the Church has expounded on the meaning of these things.

For the average Catholic, missing a Mass here and there with no serious impediment is uh, like one of those things that turn you away from Jesus even if you don’t tell him to get lost. A lot of people masturbate, but don’t tell him to get lost because they think it’s ok. If he’s a priest that doesn’t instruct the people, then maybe they still could be confused by Vatican 2, but still, I think the Catechism leaves no recourse (well, I don’t know about 2nd Gen SSPX and worse off schismatics, but I think they can be responsible to see that the Church acknowledged succession even during the “3 Popes” situation so why should now be totally different).

I don’t know when confessions are here as reading the characters is like Indy deciphering an Incan writing, except I have a translation dictionary.
 
GraceDK said:
However… know that Jesus knows His own when they come to Him… and the one who is repentant and believes in Him with Love has already been washed from the essential spots of sin… confession is good but its what comes before that is most essential… I talk about the tears and the love…
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I’m not going to say that you are a bad Catholic because I don’t know you and would never judge anyone for what they felt in their heart. You seem sincere in your beliefs. However, I disagree with your statement above. The teaching of the Catholic Church is that we must go to confession and be absolved of mortal sin before we receive the Eucharist. We go to Jesus for forgiveness through the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

However, if the OP was unaware that it was a mortal sin to not attend Mass every week, then he wouldn’t have committed a mortal sin by ignorance of the fact.

I believe this is a matter that should be taken up with the OP and the priest.
 
Like the others here said, I definitely would advocate recommending Confession to him first.
 
It gets more interesting, though. Now, he says he thinks that there are probably more than just God, as there are many who worship different “deities”. I told him how I truly became confirmed in my Faith, based on intellectual grounds, and how the miracles, which could not be dismissed as hoaxes by scientists, helped my Faith all the more.

This is East Asia, though. Buddhism became popular because it “played ball” and even local “deities (demons, according to Psalm 95 and seconded by St. Francis Xavier)” would be worshipped by some Buddhists. Most cultures prefer their sons or son-in-laws to be presidents, lawyers, judges, doctors, etc. and shun the poor, but these East Asian ones have it encoded and driven in, thanks to Confucius (who did have some good things to say as “remarriage” is very hard to do and there’s filial piety, which doesn’t help if you lose out on education to do that, it would seem). This guy had to cut his education short to help his parents, so you’d think Jesus’s teachings would make one considered less virtuous, to be more staunchly Christian than the affluent.

Of course, it’s not unusual for the financially-wanting and shunned of the world to give up on God. Lucy’s Dad, in a Fatima movie, went to a bar on Sundays and I’m sure Bernadette’s father, as well as the wives of both men, were on the brink of that, if those pious movies portrayed them right. I don’t think that is what has him questioning the claims of organized religions sticking to one god of the universe, the God. I think it’s the prevailing culture of adapting the culture for everyone who adapts to everything they’ve adapted–asimiliation (sp?). I’m not sure if the religious here even would make waves. That’s what most in trouble in Asia, as well as a falling Rome, being labelled as rebellious threats.

Could there ever be a voice crying out in the wilderness in East Asia, where the content of Jesus’s social revolution would likely have most resistance and where now, you add modern contraptions, thought-disrupting noise coming from loud-speakers outside stores, and images of half-naked or totally naked women with tantalizing gestures at child-level eyes?

Where’s the outrage? Where’s a TFP or Catholic League here? There was once St. Andrew Kim Taegon, who was martyred with others. He obviously didn’t mind not fitting in with the status quo. If he had a mobile phone with games on it growing up and post Vatican 2 aesthetic and liturgical blunders, would he have been so bold? Even the financially-struggling have some of these things.

I don’t know what to tell this guy. It’s a different culture than in the West. Maybe this one Korean priest can say the right things. I hate this kind of thing as I’m melancholic and scrupulous. It makes me more insular as I don’t like to be invited into these spiritual dilemmas. I don’t know what to say and how to say it. I don’t know what to let slide and what needs to be said for one other’s salvation. As a scrupulous person, the common advice about not feeling responsible for others’ salvation doesn’t help because, if I know and if I’m a friend, family, or have some authority over another, I definitely feel I would commit a sin of grave accessory or neglect if I don’t say what I know about their precarious situation. If I don’t cover all bases (which is most likely), I might even make things worse and I would feel the need to patch them up (which’d be about as conclusive a job as one made by Microsoft for their computers).

That’s my problem.

BTW Being melancholic, I probably made S. Korea sound like a moral sewage plant, so don’t cite me as your source of info. on that country. Still, I’ve never seen little baseball card-sized pictures of naked women on the sidewalks when we went to New York City, and that was before Giulliani cleaned things up (that, denouncing “Pis* Christ” and his handling 9/11 still not making him my preferred President as his social issues are scary). It’s still funny, despite those things and other displays of half-naked women looking sexy, I hear Westerners say this place is “close-minded”. We of the Western tradition, who are more likely to be outwardly devout, have less excuses for letting our civilizations go to pot as we permit more individualism and exclusion of any ol’ convention for the sake of it being a convention.
 
Lee_M said:
I’m not going to say that you are a bad Catholic because I don’t know you and would never judge anyone for what they felt in their heart. You seem sincere in your beliefs. However, I disagree with your statement above. The teaching of the Catholic Church is that we must go to confession and be absolved of mortal sin before we receive the Eucharist. We go to Jesus for forgiveness through the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

However, if the OP was unaware that it was a mortal sin to not attend Mass every week, then he wouldn’t have committed a mortal sin by ignorance of the fact.

I believe this is a matter that should be taken up with the OP and the priest.
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Hello LeeM. Don’t you think repentence can come from the heart before going to Confession? If we don’t realize we have sinned and repent as soon as we realize that what we did was wrong, why think of going to Confession? I may have misunderstood your post, but the way I understood it, I read one can’t repent until they go to Confession??? One can “repent” as soon as the sin is realized, but one can only be “forgiven” through the Sacrament of Confession. I think that is what Grace D meant.
 
elts1956 said:
Hello LeeM. Don’t you think repentence can come from the heart before going to Confession? If we don’t realize we have sinned and repent as soon as we realize that what we did was wrong, why think of going to Confession? I may have misunderstood your post, but the way I understood it, I read one can’t repent until they go to Confession??? One can “repent” as soon as the sin is realized, but one can only be “forgiven” through the Sacrament of Confession. I think that is what Grace D meant.
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Well, yes, the fact remains that to be OK to receive Holy Communion you must BOTH repent AND be sacramentally absolved in confession (apart from extraordinary circumstances like danger of death and no opportunity for confession or some such).
 
About Communion, tell your friend that he/she cannot receive Communion unless he/she first goes to confession. Try to be as friendly as possible about it but make it clear that it would be a mortal sin to receive Communion when in a state of mortal sin.
 
If I may add to the fine suggestions already made in this thread, sit during Communion (but do take Communion in spirit) in order to protect His Precious Body and Precious Blood from sacrilege. If you remain there with him, he might not be tempted to get in line.

:blessyou:
 
Augustine said:
If I may add to the fine suggestions already made in this thread, sit during Communion (but do take Communion in spirit) in order to protect His Precious Body and Precious Blood from sacrilege. If you remain there with him, he might not be tempted to get in line.

:blessyou:
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I am going a bit against the flow here, but this is what I think. First, if he is a fallen away Catholic who has had some Catholic education, or training, he should know that receiving the Sacrament in the state of Mortal Sin is a Sacrilege. We know this, but perhaps he doesn’t remember, or consider himself to be in the state of Mortal sin… I don’t really know if it is up to you to remind him of this. We may cringe at other’s failings, but they are their failings, not ours. We can only do so much to protect the Sanctity of the Sacraments which is be sure we receive them in a State of Grace. We are not Sacrament police. Pray on it. 🙂
 
Holly3278 said:
About Communion, tell your friend that he/she cannot receive Communion unless he/she first goes to confession. Try to be as friendly as possible about it but make it clear that it would be a mortal sin to receive Communion when in a state of mortal sin.
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I completely agree with what Holly is saying here. However, I would like to add one thing.

After telling him what the Church teaches about Communion, and letting him know when and where confessions are heard…be done with it.

You have done your job teaching our faith and the Church.

In my opinion it is either sinful or at least in very poor taste to ask someone if they have went to confession, or if they have confessed this-or-that. If taken to it’s logical extreme, you would have to get into if proper matter and form was present and that would lead to us judging if it was a proper confession. Not good.

I have committed embarassing sins and would not like to even acknowledge going to confession sometimes, much less telling what I have confessed.

There will be no obligation for you during Mass then to tell him whether or not to go to Communion. And I don’t think you should give much thought then because we almost never know the state of someone’s soul (except some very rare cases: i.e. St. Pio).
 
foolishmortal said:
The question I have is, what do I say about Communion? I don’t know if he can have Jesus or not anymore. I know, even if he says he has done something that would be seriously sinful, it still might not be a mortal sin in his case.
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WOW! I was once a fallen-away Catholic, who called up my friend and said, “I want to go to Mass with you.”

I knew I had to be right with the Church before I could receive Communion. I knew I hadn’t been to Confession for twenty years and that had to happen first. Within a month I had made a long overdue Confession, and had my first (in 20 yrs) Communion the next day.

When I was at that first Mass, it was a very liberal parish. Not faithful to Catholic teaching at all. A parishioner who learned it was my first Mass in years encouraged me to go to Communion, saying it won’t be a problem. I knew I couldn’t and didn’t.

When you have to wait for something, it becomes more delicious.
“Taste and see that the Lord is good.”***
 
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