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adrift
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Please document this claim.
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adrift
Guest
Please document this claim. This is the first I have heard that the reading books on the index was punished by excommunication.You were excommunicated if you disobeyed on this. Sending people to hell for reading a book seems pretty physical.
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Jkimbo
Guest
A really dumb question, if the universe is so huge and we only see a portion of it at best, how can any one say we are not at the center?
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Petergee
Guest
Nonsense upon nonsense. The Catholic Church has never excommunicated, or threatened to excommunicate, anyone for reading any book.You were excommunicated if you disobeyed on this. Sending people to hell for reading a book seems pretty physical.
I don’t think the penalty of excommunication was applied even for printing and publishing a book without pemission.
And in any case excommunication in the Catholic Church is and has always been a medicinal penalty intended to bring a sinner to his senses and save his soul. The Church has never “sent people to Hell”. She has never even stated that any individual is in Hell.
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CrazyRachel
Guest
I think Catholics are just plain sick of secularists or membes of other religions who keep on dragging Galileo up. Ok so he was treated really unfairly to say the least, but get over it world! It happened hundreds of years ago and the Vatican has since apologized for his treatment. Also something they keep on failing to mention is that Galileo himself was a devout Catholic and his daughter who loved him very much was a nun. But because anti-Catholic biggots keep using certain figures from the distant past to have a go at normal every day Catholics, I get sick of hearing about Galileo… and Michaelangelo… and Leonardo D Vinci especially, which is really wrong of me because all these men were Christians and the secularists have twisted them into seeming as though something else to suit their own small minded arguments, but I cannot help but roll my eyes when their names are mentioned because I think, ‘‘oh here we go again.’’
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KostyaJMJ
Guest
Nonsense upon nonsense. The Catholic Church has never excommunicated, or threatened to excommunicate, anyone for reading any book.
I don’t think the penalty of excommunication was applied even for printing and publishing a book without pemission.
Council of Trent: Rules on Prohibited BooksFinally, all the faithful are commanded not to presume to read or possess any books contrary to the prescriptions of these rules or the prohibition of this list. And if anyone should read or possess books by heretics or writings by any author condemned and prohibited by reason of heresy or suspicion of false teaching, he incurs immediately the sentence of excommunication. He, on the other hand, who reads or possesses books prohibited under another name shall, besides incurring the guilt of mortal sin, be severely punished according to the judgment of the bishops.
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louis91766
Guest
Please explain the following:Nonsense upon nonsense. The Catholic Church has never excommunicated, or threatened to excommunicate, anyone for reading any book.
fordham.edu/halsall/mod/trent-booksrules.asp
TEN RULES CONCERNING PROHIBITED BOOKS DRAWN UP BY THE FATHERS CHOSEN BY THE COUNCIL OF TRENT AND APPROVED BY POPE PIUS [1]
…“Finally, all the faithful are commanded not to presume to read or possess any books contrary to the prescriptions of these rules or the prohibition of this list. And if anyone should read or possess books by heretics or writings by any author condemned and prohibited by reason of heresy or suspicion of false teaching, he incurs immediately the sentence of excommunication. He, on the other hand, who reads or possesses books prohibited under another name shall, besides incurring the guilt of mortal sin, be severely punished according to the judgment of the bishops.”
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louis91766
Guest
It has been documented on the previous post.Please document this claim. This is the first I have heard that the reading books on the index was punished by excommunication.
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Petergee
Guest
And like others of Trent’s strongly worded anathemas, this one was never enforced.It has been documented on the previous post.
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didymus
Guest
The Church at the time did not oppose heliocentrism per se, even at the time. It continued to be taught by Jesuit universities even as Galileo was on trial.
When Galileo first publish in favor of Copenicanism (which would have been fine as long as he stuck to presenting it as a theory) he included his own theological and Biblical interpretation, in other words poaching on the Church’s turf.
He was forbidden to publish but Pope Urban relented and gave permission. He then published a book int he form a dialog between a heliocentrist, a stupid geocentrist (recognisable as the Pope) and a layman whom they are both trying to convince.
Urban was furious. Galileo was tried pretty much for being an ingrate as much as anything else.
When Galileo first publish in favor of Copenicanism (which would have been fine as long as he stuck to presenting it as a theory) he included his own theological and Biblical interpretation, in other words poaching on the Church’s turf.
He was forbidden to publish but Pope Urban relented and gave permission. He then published a book int he form a dialog between a heliocentrist, a stupid geocentrist (recognisable as the Pope) and a layman whom they are both trying to convince.
Urban was furious. Galileo was tried pretty much for being an ingrate as much as anything else.
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louis91766
Guest
How so?And like others of Trent’s strongly worded anathemas, this one was never enforced.
The decisions of an ecumenical Council of the Roman Catholic Church should be taken seriously, in my opinion.
When you commit a mortal sin, such as missing Mass on Sunday, or in the past, reading a book on the Index, it was supposed to be confessed.
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Petergee
Guest
yes, they should be. But when anathemas are multiplied so that they include even relatively trivial matters, people tend to take them less seriously.How so?
The decisions of an ecumenical Council of the Roman Catholic Church should be taken seriously, in my opinion.
Yes indeed. But I don’t think you will find a single case of the Church ever refusing communion to someone because he had merely read a book which was on the Index.When you commit a mortal sin, such as missing Mass on Sunday, or in the past, reading a book on the Index, it was supposed to be confessed.
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louis91766
Guest
When was the last time you saw a priest refuse someone Holy Communion because he did not attend Mass last Sunday or because she is using ABC? They are still mortal sins, whether or not some priest overlooks them while giving communion.yes, they should be. But when anathemas are multiplied so that they include even relatively trivial matters, people tend to take them less seriously.
Yes indeed. But I don’t think you will find a single case of the Church ever refusing communion to someone because he had merely read a book which was on the Index.
I notice that tendency nowadays of Catholics to pick and choose what teachings they want to obey and which teachings they reject. Cafeteria Catholicism does not have the official approval of the Roman Catholic Church.
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1holycatholic
Guest
How does the priest know who missed Mass last Sunday or who is using artificial contraception? They aren’t omniscient.When was the last time you saw a priest refuse someone Holy Communion because he did not attend Mass last Sunday or because she is using ABC? They are still mortal sins, whether or not some priest overlooks them while giving communion.
I notice that tendency nowadays of Catholics to pick and choose what teachings they want to obey and which teachings they reject. Cafeteria Catholicism does not have the official approval of the Roman Catholic Church.
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louis91766
Guest
Correct. And how would a priest know who had read a forbidden book.How does the priest know who missed Mass last Sunday or who is using artificial contraception? They aren’t omniscient.
Regardless of what this or that priest would do, it was still listed as a mortal sin to read a forbidden book, from Trent up until 50 years ago.
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Petergee
Guest
Yes indeed, I never said or implied that they are not mortal sins. Or that disobeying any of Trent’s directives was not a mortal sin. The question concerned excommunication.When was the last time you saw a priest refuse someone Holy Communion because he did not attend Mass last Sunday or because she is using ABC? They are still mortal sins, whether or not some priest overlooks them while giving communion.
I certainly hope you are not implying that I in any way do this. If so you would be guilty of the sin of rash (and completely false) judgement against your brother.I notice that tendency nowadays of Catholics to pick and choose what teachings they want to obey and which teachings they reject. Cafeteria Catholicism does not have the official approval of the Roman Catholic Church.
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louis91766
Guest
It was an official decision of the Roman Catholic Church that the penalty for reading a forbidden book was excommunication and mortal sin.Yes indeed, I never said or implied that they are not mortal sins. Or that disobeying any of Trent’s directives was not a mortal sin. The question concerned excommunication. I certainly hope you are not implying that I in any way do this. If so you would be guilty of the sin of rash (and completely false) judgement against your brother.
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DavidPalm
Guest
This is true. But just a clarification, which may seem strange to some but is true nonetheless. Just because a book in on the Index does not create some sort of dogma that what it contains is necessarily harmful. It may be harmful given a particular set of temporal circumstances. Or it could, conceivably, be placed on the Index wrongfully. Even the writings of Sister St. Faustina were at one time on the Index.It was an official decision of the Roman Catholic Church that the penalty for reading a forbidden book was excommunication and mortal sin.
I think the thing to remember here is that the Church rightly expects and receives our obedience. But these do remain matters of pastoral prudence, not infallible dogma.
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Petergee
Guest
Yes, nobody is disputing that. Just don’t go around calling people “Cafeteria Catholics” unless there is a reason to do so.It was an official decision of the Roman Catholic Church that the penalty for reading a forbidden book was excommunication and mortal sin.
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