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Freddy
Guest
Trying to understand you…Freddy:
Good, good.MPat:
I’m really not sure, Mpat.
And do you know what you are trying to do?
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MamaJewel
Guest
I don’t now why either, probably a computer glitch.
That said, having a fundamentalist independent baptist background as a child, I respectfully disagree with your interpretation of scriptures(which reflect very similar interpretations of cloned humans or IVF humans by fundamentalists) about human clones.
I would think that a future synthetic human mutant cyborg might be more like Revelation’s “anti-christ”.
I used to believe this. Now I think it will be a team of corporate researchers looking to enslave humanity for shareholders’ profits and leadership’s infinite power.
Oh, yes, 100% agree.
As I have quoted before in the comparison medicine run amok to nukes, the renowned Dr. Oppenheimer’s “I am become death the destroyer of worlds.”
Nice to share ideas with you!
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MPat
Guest
OK, that’s a goal (perhaps an intermediate goal).
So, do you have a plan to achieve that goal? Have you chosen some means to achieve it?
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Freddy
Guest
Reading your posts might be a good idea.Freddy:
OK, that’s a goal (perhaps an intermediate goal).
So, do you have a plan to achieve that goal? Have you chosen some means to achieve it?
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GodIsPerfection
Guest
If one takes the cloning premise, and applies it to Revelation, there are a large number of “dots” in Revelation, which connect very well.
Some of these “dots” are phrases in various parts of scripture (not the complete verses).
The Holy Spirit alone, imparts the wisdom to see the “dots” and to “connect the dots” and see the greater picture in Revelation, that I am only alluding to. Revelation is a sort of puzzle which not everyone can discern. If I threw it all out publicly, most would consider it foolishness. Pointless for me to do so.
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MPat
Guest
Hopefully, that is not the only step in the plan, for that would only work if I would have written all you want to understand explicitly.
Anyway, you have a goal, you have at least a partial plan - now you can go, implement it, report back the results. Unless, of course, you are going to improve your plan first.
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Freddy
Guest
I’m mildly insulted. I’m not sure how old you are, Mpat. Or how long your ‘plan’ has been running. But I’ve been around the block quite a few times and I’m not just starting out thinking ‘gee, I wonder what all this is about…’Freddy:
Hopefully, that is not the only step in the plan, for that would only work if I would have written all you want to understand explicitly.
Anyway, you have a goal, you have at least a partial plan - now you can go, implement it, report back the results. Unless, of course, you are going to improve your plan first.
I certainly don’t need you to help me form such a plan and then send me off to investigate under your guidance and report back like a kid with a school project.
I’ve reached where I need to be and I’m happy to be there. I am happy to listen to you about your journey and discuss the differences in approach but I definitely don’t need any guidance or instructions from you.
But thanks for the offer.
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MPat
Guest
“Amen I say to you, unless you be converted, and become as little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 18:3)…
Actually, you also won’t learn anything, unless you will be willing to “become as little children” (humble, willing to find truth about something etc.).
For, you know, even in a university the process is not significantly different. The same description fits any lab assignment, even writing and defending a PhD dissertation.
And yes, lack of humility is what clearly holds you back.
Even here, would it have been hard to ask me what I was trying to do? To ask with a clear understanding that you are asking me for a favour, which is mine to grant or to deny.
And instead we have this:
And yet, you do not seem to be all that happy, nor do you seem to be someone who does not need instructions and guidance.
After all, going to this forum with anything close to the expectation that some stranger will tell you his life story, without you even asking… That seems pretty strange and unreasonable. After all, even psychotherapists (who can actually expect people telling their life story) ask questions.
And, well, you have not yet achieved your stated aim. Thus in this case it is obvious that you do need some help, probably including “guidance or instructions”. And yes, in this case I’m the obvious candidate for providing that.
So, yes, that was a test for humility. You did not demonstrate enough of it for a real discussion (and the threshold was not all that high).
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Freddy
Guest
I finf the best way to learn something is to question everything.Freddy:
Actually, you also won’t learn anything, unless you will be willing to “become as little children” (humble, willing to find truth about something etc.).
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MPat
Guest
Does this “everything” include your own virtue, competence and the like?
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Freddy
Guest
That’s first off the block. As Feynman said: ‘The easiest person to fool is yourself’.Freddy:
Does this “everything” include your own virtue, competence and the like?
Always doubt yourself first and foremost.
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MPat
Guest
So, let’s look at things you wrote just before:
Did you remember to doubt your ability to do without those “any guidance or instructions”? And if you did doubt, what defeated those doubts?
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Freddy
Guest
You’ve taken a different path. I can see you over there from over here. If you are confident in the direction you have taken and are happy where you are then you don’t need any instructions or guidance from me.Freddy:
So, let’s look at things you wrote just before:
Did you remember to doubt your ability to do without those “any guidance or instructions”? And if you did doubt, what defeated those doubts?
The reverse applies.
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MamaJewel
Guest
I lose smarts with this technique. But I question anyway.
All I know is that I know nothing.
“Things I knew when I was young,
Some were true, but most were wrong.
And one day, I pray, I’ll be more than my father’s son.
And now I own my father’s gun.”
—MamaJewel’s not so parody on The Lumineer’s Gun Song
PS. My kid just complimented me by saying I was the cringiest mom yet
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MPat
Guest
That is not a description of any technique to avoid self-deception, nor is it a description of technique to detect it.
And in the same text you cited, Feynman demands actual effort with real techniques to avoid self-deception, like proper experimental design.
So, can you see any other reason to believe those things about yourself, other than “The alternative looks scary and humiliating.”?
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Freddy
Guest
Why is that last sentence in quotes? Who said it?
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MPat
Guest
Let’s try again with a tiny change.
That is not a description of any technique to avoid self-deception, nor is it a description of technique to detect it.
And in the same text you cited, Feynman demands actual effort with real techniques to avoid self-deception, like proper experimental design.
So, can you see any other reason to believe those things about yourself, other than something mostly equivalent to “The alternative looks scary and humiliating.”?
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Freddy
Guest
Who said it’s ‘scary and humiliating’?Freddy:
Let’s try again with a tiny change.
That is not a description of any technique to avoid self-deception, nor is it a description of technique to detect it.
And in the same text you cited, Feynman demands actual effort with real techniques to avoid self-deception, like proper experimental design.
So, can you see any other reason to believe those things about yourself, other than something mostly equivalent to “The alternative looks scary and humiliating.”?
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MPat
Guest
Quotation marks are not just used for quoting something someone else said, but also for giving various propositions, when they are being discussed.
So, let’s try once more:
That is not a description of any technique to avoid self-deception, nor is it a description of technique to detect it.
And in the same text you cited, Feynman demands actual effort with real techniques to avoid self-deception, like proper experimental design.
So, can you see any other reason to believe those things about yourself, other than something mostly equivalent to “The alternative looks scary and humiliating.”?
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Freddy
Guest
You being there and me being here is not a technique to determine self deception. To avoid deception you need to question your own views. To argue against them. You meed to take the opposite view. To actually listen to the views of others who think differently with an open mind.
It’s not easy.
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